Henry Guldeford, KG

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wjhonson

Henry Guldeford, KG

Legg inn av wjhonson » 06 apr 2007 00:47:29

Previously it was stated here that Margaret Bryan was daughter of Sir
Thomas Bryan Knt (in 1497) d 1517/8 (will proved 30 Jan 1517/8); and
that this same Margaret married Henry Guldeford, KG

I have found a document, which I will share shortly after I finish
annotating it, that appears to suggest that this Henry was that same
Henry Guldeford, Knt (in 1511), Comptroller of the King's Household,
died May 1532 and son to Sir Richard Guldeford, also Comptroller of
the King's Household by his wife Joan de Vaux.

Does someone have the proof that these two are the same person?
Thanks
Will Johnson

John Higgins

Re: Henry Guldeford, KG

Legg inn av John Higgins » 06 apr 2007 01:02:10

There is a fairly detailed three-page biography of Sir Henry Guildford
[sic], KG, in Walter Goodwin Davis, "The Ancestry of Mary Isaac" (1955). It
confirms the parentage you mention and also his [first] marriage to Margaret
Bryan. His second wife was Mary, dau. of Sir Robert Wotton of Boughton
Malherbe. He died in 1532 without issue from either marriage. He
apparently was knighted first by King Ferdinand of Spain on 15 Sept 1551 and
subsequently by Henry VIII on 30 Mar 1512.

----- Original Message -----
From: "wjhonson" <wjhonson@aol.com>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 4:47 PM
Subject: Henry Guldeford, KG


Previously it was stated here that Margaret Bryan was daughter of Sir
Thomas Bryan Knt (in 1497) d 1517/8 (will proved 30 Jan 1517/8); and
that this same Margaret married Henry Guldeford, KG

I have found a document, which I will share shortly after I finish
annotating it, that appears to suggest that this Henry was that same
Henry Guldeford, Knt (in 1511), Comptroller of the King's Household,
died May 1532 and son to Sir Richard Guldeford, also Comptroller of
the King's Household by his wife Joan de Vaux.

Does someone have the proof that these two are the same person?
Thanks
Will Johnson


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wjhonson

Re: Henry Guldeford, KG

Legg inn av wjhonson » 06 apr 2007 01:39:06

Fascinating. That explains one of the missing links in my little
puzzle I'm working out. Apparently I've found something like the
marriage settlement when he married her. Or something to that effect.

If I'm right then that Edward Wotten who m Dorothy Reade having Anne
(Reade) Cromer (later of Tunstall, Kent) must also be a son to this
same Robert Wotten of Boughton Malherbe. Also Robert must be dead by
1528, and *possibly* Anne had already married James Cromer by 1528 as
well.

If you can't tell I'm working on a 1528 document which names about 20
people and apparently they are all related to each other in odd ways.
I've worked out about 12 of the relations so far.

I don't want to tip my hand until I have more.

Will Johnson

wjhonson

Re: Henry Guldeford, KG

Legg inn av wjhonson » 06 apr 2007 01:54:34

I'm unsure who the following people would be from 1528
Arthur Sentlygger
Henry Isley
James Pekham
Richard Hyll

If anyone has any suggestions, they *should* be tied in some way to
the Guldeford, Gage, Browne, or Wotten families.

Thanks
Will Johnson

Leo van de Pas

Re: Henry Guldeford, KG

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 06 apr 2007 02:27:20

In Cahiers de Saint Louis, page 899 I found

Sir Richard Guldeford and Joan Vaux are the parents of Sir Henry Guildford,
born 1489, died May 1532, married (1) May 1512 Margaret Bryan (2) Mary
Wotton.

Hope this helps
Leo van de Pas


----- Original Message -----
From: "wjhonson" <wjhonson@aol.com>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 9:47 AM
Subject: Henry Guldeford, KG


Previously it was stated here that Margaret Bryan was daughter of Sir
Thomas Bryan Knt (in 1497) d 1517/8 (will proved 30 Jan 1517/8); and
that this same Margaret married Henry Guldeford, KG

I have found a document, which I will share shortly after I finish
annotating it, that appears to suggest that this Henry was that same
Henry Guldeford, Knt (in 1511), Comptroller of the King's Household,
died May 1532 and son to Sir Richard Guldeford, also Comptroller of
the King's Household by his wife Joan de Vaux.

Does someone have the proof that these two are the same person?
Thanks
Will Johnson


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To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
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Leo van de Pas

Re: Henry Guldeford, KG

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 06 apr 2007 02:30:11

Dear John,

This Sir Robert Wotton is that Sir Robert Wotton born in 1465 and married to
Anne Belknap?
Leo

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Higgins" <jthiggins@sbcglobal.net>
To: "Gen-Med" <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: Henry Guldeford, KG


There is a fairly detailed three-page biography of Sir Henry Guildford
[sic], KG, in Walter Goodwin Davis, "The Ancestry of Mary Isaac" (1955).
It
confirms the parentage you mention and also his [first] marriage to
Margaret
Bryan. His second wife was Mary, dau. of Sir Robert Wotton of Boughton
Malherbe. He died in 1532 without issue from either marriage. He
apparently was knighted first by King Ferdinand of Spain on 15 Sept 1551
and
subsequently by Henry VIII on 30 Mar 1512.

----- Original Message -----
From: "wjhonson" <wjhonson@aol.com
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 4:47 PM
Subject: Henry Guldeford, KG


Previously it was stated here that Margaret Bryan was daughter of Sir
Thomas Bryan Knt (in 1497) d 1517/8 (will proved 30 Jan 1517/8); and
that this same Margaret married Henry Guldeford, KG

I have found a document, which I will share shortly after I finish
annotating it, that appears to suggest that this Henry was that same
Henry Guldeford, Knt (in 1511), Comptroller of the King's Household,
died May 1532 and son to Sir Richard Guldeford, also Comptroller of
the King's Household by his wife Joan de Vaux.

Does someone have the proof that these two are the same person?
Thanks
Will Johnson


-------------------------------
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quotes in the subject and the body of the message


-------------------------------
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wjhonson

Re: Henry Guldeford, KG

Legg inn av wjhonson » 06 apr 2007 03:26:13

<<On Apr 5, 6:30 pm, "Leo van de Pas" <leovd...@netspeed.com.au>
wrote:
Dear John,

This Sir Robert Wotton is that Sir Robert Wotton born in 1465 and married to
Anne Belknap?
Leo

Yes Leo that's what I have. This is made doubly clear by the document
I've found dated 1528 where Mary's brother Edward, her nephew and
nephew-in-law are involved with a transaction that otherwise mostly
the Guldeford family and their connections. I will post the details
next.

Will Johnson

wjhonson

Re: Henry Guldeford, KG

Legg inn av wjhonson » 06 apr 2007 03:45:33

From the A2A site

Centre for Kentish Studies: Filmer Manuscripts
Filmer Manuscripts
Catalogue Ref. U120
Creator(s): Filmer family of East Sutton, Kent
TITLE DEEDS
Manor of East Sutton and entire estate
Manor of East Sutton
Manor of East Sutton and other manors, including Manor of Townland,
Woodchurch
FILE - Letter patent of Henry VIII - ref. U120/T1/24/1 - date: 28
November 1528
[from Scope and Content] Licence to alienate, Arthur Sayntleger, prior
of Leeds, to Thomas West, kt., Lord of Lawarre, Edward Guldeford, kt.,
John Cawge, kt., Francis Bryan, kt., Anthony Browne, kt., Matthew
Browne, kt., Edward Wotton, kt., Henry Isley, kt., George Guldeford,
esq., John Cromer, esq., James Pekham, esq., John Poyntz, Henry
Browne, Thomas Wotton, Edward Cawge, John Guldeford, Richard Hyll,
Walter Hendley, Henry Poyntz, Henry Hyll as feoffees to the use of
Henry Guldeford

From my analysis it appears this document pertains to the marriage of
Henry Guldeford and Mary Wotton.


1) Arthur St Leger, Prior of Leeds -- dont know who this is
2) Thomas West, Lord of Lawarre - the 9th Lord de la Warre d 1554,
brother-in-law to Edward Guldeford
3) Edward Guldeford kt - Son of Richard Guldeford by Anne Pimpe; he
married Eleanor West
4) John Cawge kt - John GAGE, KG of West Firle married Philippa
Guldeford sister of (3) Edward
5) Francis Bryan kt - d 1549/50, brother to Henry Guldeford's first
wife Margaret Bryan
6) Anthony Browne kt - d 1548, married Alice Gage, daughter of (4)
John Gage by Philippa Guldeford
7) Matthew Browne kt - first cousin of (6); married Fridiswide
Guldeford sister of (3)
8) Edward Wotton kt - brother of Mary Wotton, second wife of Henry
Guldeford
9) Henry Isley kt - dont know who this is
10) George Guldeford, esq - brother of (3), brother inlaw of (4) and
(7), half-brother of Henry Guldeford
11) John Cromer, esq. - JAMES Cromer of Tunstall married Anne Wotten
dau of (8), this must be a related there
12) James Pekham, esq. - I dont know who this is
13) John Poyntz - This must be John Poyntz of Adderley, brother to the
current husband of Joan de Vaux mother of Henry Guldeford
14) Henry Browne - son of (7) by Fridiswide Guldeford
15) Thomas Wotton - son of (8)
16) Edward Cawge - son of (4) by Philippa Guldeford
17) John Guldeford - son of (10) by Elizabeth Mortimer
18) Richard Hyll - who is this?
19) Walter Hendley - who is this?
20) Henry Poyntz - who is this?
21) Henry Hyll - who is this?
22) Henry Guldeford - the MAIN culprit. This must be a settlement on
him upon his second marriage??

Will Johnson

John Higgins

Re: Henry Guldeford, KG

Legg inn av John Higgins » 06 apr 2007 07:16:37

Yes, that's the right Sir Robert - at least according to the Visitations of
Kent in 1536 (HSP v. 74) and 1574 (HSP vol. 75). Mary Wotton, the 2nd wife
of Sir Henry Guildford, apparently subsequently married Sir George Carey of
Devonshire, but had no issue by either marriage before dying in 1558.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au>
To: "John Higgins" <jthiggins@sbcglobal.net>
Cc: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: Henry Guldeford, KG


Dear John,

This Sir Robert Wotton is that Sir Robert Wotton born in 1465 and married
to
Anne Belknap?
Leo

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Higgins" <jthiggins@sbcglobal.net
To: "Gen-Med" <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: Henry Guldeford, KG


There is a fairly detailed three-page biography of Sir Henry Guildford
[sic], KG, in Walter Goodwin Davis, "The Ancestry of Mary Isaac" (1955).
It
confirms the parentage you mention and also his [first] marriage to
Margaret
Bryan. His second wife was Mary, dau. of Sir Robert Wotton of Boughton
Malherbe. He died in 1532 without issue from either marriage. He
apparently was knighted first by King Ferdinand of Spain on 15 Sept 1551
and
subsequently by Henry VIII on 30 Mar 1512.

----- Original Message -----
From: "wjhonson" <wjhonson@aol.com
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 4:47 PM
Subject: Henry Guldeford, KG


Previously it was stated here that Margaret Bryan was daughter of Sir
Thomas Bryan Knt (in 1497) d 1517/8 (will proved 30 Jan 1517/8); and
that this same Margaret married Henry Guldeford, KG

I have found a document, which I will share shortly after I finish
annotating it, that appears to suggest that this Henry was that same
Henry Guldeford, Knt (in 1511), Comptroller of the King's Household,
died May 1532 and son to Sir Richard Guldeford, also Comptroller of
the King's Household by his wife Joan de Vaux.

Does someone have the proof that these two are the same person?
Thanks
Will Johnson


-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without
the
quotes in the subject and the body of the message


-------------------------------
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the
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wjhonson

Re: Henry Guldeford, KG

Legg inn av wjhonson » 06 apr 2007 07:24:03

Arthur St Leger, Prior of Leeds was per stirnet an additional son to
Ralph St Leger of Ulcombe by his Hawte wife. They have another woman
named Anne Hart and I'm not sure which is correct.

Although Philippa Guldeford has St Leger ancestors the believed
connection here is very very remote. There must be something else
going on.

JohnH

Re: Henry Guldeford, KG

Legg inn av JohnH » 06 apr 2007 07:35:08

Apart from one you qupoted from at A2A there is
Reference: U120/T1/21/1
Inquisition ad quod damnum taken at Strood by Thomas Burgeyn,
escheator

Creation dates: 19 October 1514


Scope and Content
Concerning the manor of East Sutton, the jury present that this is
held by Ralph Seyntleger, esq. and Robert Lambe, and has a yearly value of
£23. 10s. 4d. It is held of the Duke of Lancaster for half a knight's fee.
Ralph also holds land in Ulcombe valued at £20 yearly, Robert holds land in
Leeds and Hollingbourne valued at £5 yearly

Seals: 14 small blobs of wax on 3 tongues, 2 missing



Reference: U120/T1/21/2
Letter patent of Henry VIII. Licence to alienate, Ralph Seyntleger and
Robert Lambe to the prior of Leeds

Creation dates: 23 November 1514


Scope and Content
Manor of East Sutton, annual value £20

Seal: half of Great Seal, discoloured and in poor condition, remnants
of wooden base, covered with protective sacking

Endorsed: Enrolled in Exchequer, Michaelmas term 8 Henry VIII



Reference: U120/T1/21/3
Conveyance (feoffment)

Creation dates: 3 January 1515


Scope and Content
Ralph Seyntleger and Robert Lambe to Richard, prior of Leeds

Manor of East Sutton

Appointment of attorney to deliver livery of seisin, John Sowdland

Seals: (i) ? seated figure (above, signature of Ralph Seyntleger) (ii)
interlaced R and A (above, signature of Robert Lambe)



Manor of Townland, Woodchurch

Creation dates: 1528-1537



Related Material

See also U120/T157: Manor of Townland


Reference: U120/T1/22/1
Mortgage (bargain and sale) for £387. 17s. 3½d

Creation dates: 2 June 1528


Scope and Content
Thomas, prior of Leeds to Sir Henry Guldeford, controller of the
King's household

Manor of East Sutton and land in East Sutton, Ulcombe and Sutton
Valence, manor of Towneland [Woodchurch] [see T157] and land in Woodchurch

Repayment by 29 September 1535; if not repaid, purchase will be
completed by payment of £304. 17s. 8½d. - £284. 17s. 8½d. on 25 December
1535, £20 on 25 December 1536

Seal missing

Signatures of Thomas, prior and of convent: Thomas Egetton, sub-prior,
Thomas Langley, John Cent, Charles Brenscheley, Thomas Browgthon, Richard
Bowthon, John Bredgar, John Fymernour, John Fayrhed, Lancelot Holyngburne,
Thomas London, William Gyllingham, William Fenersam, Richard Corden



"wjhonson" <wjhonson@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1175820874.703093.192570@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
I'm unsure who the following people would be from 1528
Arthur Sentlygger
Henry Isley
James Pekham
Richard Hyll

If anyone has any suggestions, they *should* be tied in some way to
the Guldeford, Gage, Browne, or Wotten families.

Thanks
Will Johnson


Tim Powys-Lybbe

Re: Henry Guldeford, KG

Legg inn av Tim Powys-Lybbe » 06 apr 2007 10:37:24

In message of 6 Apr, "wjhonson" <wjhonson@aol.com> wrote:

From the A2A site

Centre for Kentish Studies: Filmer Manuscripts
Filmer Manuscripts
Catalogue Ref. U120
Creator(s): Filmer family of East Sutton, Kent
TITLE DEEDS
Manor of East Sutton and entire estate
Manor of East Sutton
Manor of East Sutton and other manors, including Manor of Townland,
Woodchurch
FILE - Letter patent of Henry VIII - ref. U120/T1/24/1 - date: 28
November 1528
[from Scope and Content] Licence to alienate, Arthur Sayntleger, prior
of Leeds, to Thomas West, kt., Lord of Lawarre, Edward Guldeford, kt.,
John Cawge, kt., Francis Bryan, kt., Anthony Browne, kt., Matthew
Browne, kt., Edward Wotton, kt., Henry Isley, kt., George Guldeford,
esq., John Cromer, esq., James Pekham, esq., John Poyntz, Henry
Browne, Thomas Wotton, Edward Cawge, John Guldeford, Richard Hyll,
Walter Hendley, Henry Poyntz, Henry Hyll as feoffees to the use of
Henry Guldeford

From my analysis it appears this document pertains to the marriage of
Henry Guldeford and Mary Wotton.

<snip>

13) John Poyntz - This must be John Poyntz of Adderley, brother to the
current husband of Joan de Vaux mother of Henry Guldeford

FWIW John Maclean in his "Memoir of the Family of Poyntz", p. 95, gives
John Poyntz of Adderley as the younger brother of Anthony Poyntz whom m.
(a) Eliz. Huddesfield and (b) "Joan Guildford, relict of Sir Richard
Guildford, Kt, Rot. Pat. 10 Hen VIII", where (a) and (b) are not
necessarily in temporal order.

14) Henry Browne - son of (7) by Fridiswide Guldeford
15) Thomas Wotton - son of (8)
16) Edward Cawge - son of (4) by Philippa Guldeford
17) John Guldeford - son of (10) by Elizabeth Mortimer
18) Richard Hyll - who is this?
19) Walter Hendley - who is this?
20) Henry Poyntz - who is this?

From ibid p. 131, he cannot have been John Poyntz' eldest son Henry who
was an imbecile, aged 16 when his father died and dsp, so thus born in
1528 when this document was sealed.

Ibid p. 95 also gives a Henry who m. c.1478 and was an uncle of this
John as well as being son of Nicholas Poyntz (d.1449) and Elizabeth
Hussey. He might just still have been around in 1528.

21) Henry Hyll - who is this?
22) Henry Guldeford - the MAIN culprit. This must be a settlement on
him upon his second marriage??



--
Tim Powys-Lybbe                                          tim@powys.org
             For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/

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