Goda de Tosny

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AnnG

Goda de Tosny

Legg inn av AnnG » 01 apr 2007 08:39:52

It is recorded that William de Ferrers, 3rd Earl of Derby, married
Goda de Tosny, c.1160. Is this the same woman as Godehilde de Tosny
who married Robert de Neufbourg?

Peter Stewart

Re: Goda de Tosny

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 01 apr 2007 09:20:44

"AnnG" <anngodden@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:1175413192.507665.150220@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
It is recorded that William de Ferrers, 3rd Earl of Derby, married
Goda de Tosny, c.1160. Is this the same woman as Godehilde de Tosny
who married Robert de Neufbourg?

I don't know where you have seen this - it would be helpful to state your
source for information that you are querying.

As far as I'm aware (though not certain) William Ferrers, 3rd earl of Derby,
was married only once, to a lady named Sybil who was later the second wife
of Adam de Port, lord of Basing. She was formerly thought to be a daughter
of WIlliam de Braiose, lord of Bramber by Berta de Gloucester, but this has
been questioned because the source was an apparently bogus charter.

Goda de Tosny married Walchelin, seigneur of Ferrières-Saint-Hilaire & lord
of Oakham (died in or after 1189). He was related, almost certainly a second
cousin, to the William Ferrers above, and I don't think she is recorded to
have had any other husband. Her father Robert is conjectured to have been a
son of Raoul V, seigneur of Tosny (died 1162) by Margaret de Beaumont whose
father was a first cousin of Robert de Neufbourg. The latter's wife Godeheut
is said to have been a daughter of Raoul IV of Tosny (died 1126) by Alice
of Northumberland.

Peter Stewart

AnnG

Re: Goda de Tosny

Legg inn av AnnG » 01 apr 2007 12:05:16

Thanks for that - I know I should have quoted my sources. Some online
family tree gave Goda de Tosny as the second wife, after Sybil de
Braose, of William de Ferrers, 3rd Earl of Derby, but I couldn't find
any confirmation of that. Looks like somebody linked her to the wrong
William - always a hazard. Thanks again.

On Apr 1, 9:20 am, "Peter Stewart" <p_m_stew...@msn.com> wrote:
"AnnG" <anngod...@googlemail.com> wrote in message

news:1175413192.507665.150220@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...

It is recorded that William de Ferrers, 3rd Earl of Derby, married
Goda de Tosny, c.1160. Is this the same woman as Godehilde de Tosny
who married Robert de Neufbourg?

I don't know where you have seen this - it would be helpful to state your
source for information that you are querying.

As far as I'm aware (though not certain) William Ferrers, 3rd earl of Derby,
was married only once, to a lady named Sybil who was later the second wife
of Adam de Port, lord of Basing. She was formerly thought to be a daughter
of WIlliam de Braiose, lord of Bramber by Berta de Gloucester, but this has
been questioned because the source was an apparently bogus charter.

Goda de Tosny married Walchelin, seigneur of Ferrières-Saint-Hilaire & lord
of Oakham (died in or after 1189). He was related, almost certainly a second
cousin, to the William Ferrers above, and I don't think she is recorded to
have had any other husband. Her father Robert is conjectured to have been a
son of Raoul V, seigneur of Tosny (died 1162) by Margaret de Beaumont whose
father was a first cousin of Robert de Neufbourg. The latter's wife Godeheut
is said to have been a daughter of Raoul IV of Tosny (died 1126) by Alice
of Northumberland.

Peter Stewart

wjhonson

Re: Goda de Tosny

Legg inn av wjhonson » 04 apr 2007 02:05:28

Peter, you stated that Walkelin died in or after 1189
But I also have a note that he died BEF 21 Oct 1190 at Acre
And another note that says "Siege of Acre"

I'm supposing that that 21 Oct 1190 date is some sort of document or
maybe a note in a chronicle saying the he was already dead or buried
or something.

Will Johnson

Peter Stewart

Re: Goda de Tosny

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 04 apr 2007 05:11:07

"wjhonson" <wjhonson@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1175648728.600980.30220@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
Peter, you stated that Walkelin died in or after 1189
But I also have a note that he died BEF 21 Oct 1190 at Acre
And another note that says "Siege of Acre"

I'm supposing that that 21 Oct 1190 date is some sort of document or
maybe a note in a chronicle saying the he was already dead or buried
or something.

21 October 1190 is the date of a letter written from Acre by Baldwin,
archbishop of Canterbury, announcing the deaths of a number of crusaders
including "comes de Ferreres", that is William de Ferrers, 3rd earl.

As for his second cousin Walkelin, "in or after 1189" was not exactly right:
he was on crusade at the same time as his William, having arrived in
Palestine in July 1190, and he was still living on 7 September 1191. As far
as I know he was not recorded again after that date.

Peter Stewart

Peter Stewart

Re: Goda de Tosny

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 04 apr 2007 13:12:22

"Peter Stewart" <p_m_stewart@msn.com> wrote in message
news:wXJPh.7350$M.1955@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
"AnnG" <anngodden@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:1175413192.507665.150220@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
It is recorded that William de Ferrers, 3rd Earl of Derby, married
Goda de Tosny, c.1160. Is this the same woman as Godehilde de Tosny
who married Robert de Neufbourg?

I don't know where you have seen this - it would be helpful to state your
source for information that you are querying.

As far as I'm aware (though not certain) William Ferrers, 3rd earl of
Derby, was married only once, to a lady named Sybil who was later the
second wife of Adam de Port, lord of Basing. She was formerly thought to
be a daughter of WIlliam de Braiose, lord of Bramber by Berta de
Gloucester, but this has been questioned because the source was an
apparently bogus charter.

I was overlooking that Doug Thompson had resolved this doubt over Sybil's
family, in the thread "CP correction? : Sibyl de Braose/Ferrers" on 28
October 2002 at

http://groups.google.com.au/group/soc.g ... 5cdf95941f

The document cited in Foedera is a lengthy proclamation by King John
explaining - not very convincingly - the events leading to the flight of
William de Braose from his vendetta that allegedly had started over a debt
of 5,000 marks.

In the course of the narrative Earl William de Ferrers interceded with the
king twice, and he is described both times as nephew to William de Braose -
first "Et tunc venit ad nos Matildis de Heya uxor sua, & W. Comes de Ferar.
nepos suus, & Adam de Porter, qui sororem suam habuit in uxorem, & multi
alii amici sui apud Gloucestr." and later "Et, cum interim venissemus usque
Penbrok, cum exercitu nostro super mare Hiberniae, accessit ad nos
Willielmus Comes de Ferrariis nepos ejus".

This document is undoubtedly genuine, as it was entered in the Black Book of
the Exchequer by a contemporary hand. It was subscribed by several earls
including William de Ferrars himself as well as by his step-father Adam de
Port.

Peter Stewart

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