Hildyard/Haldenby Marriage & Chronology

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Brad Verity

Hildyard/Haldenby Marriage & Chronology

Legg inn av Brad Verity » 30 mar 2007 09:27:58

I've been sorting through the chronology of Katherine Hildyard, the
daughter of Sir Robert Hildyard of Winestead (d. 21 May 1501) and
Elizabeth Hastings. Modern sources say she married 1st, John Haldenby
of Haldenby, Yorks., and 2nd, William Girlington of Normanby, Lincs.,
and that her will was proved on 5 April 1540. As she is an ancestor
to colonial American gateways and has been studied previously, I
figure my ramblings through her chronology may be of interest.

Per the Hildyard pedigree in the c.1480 Visitation of the North, Sir
Robert Hildyard of Winestead and Elizabeth Hastings had the following
9 children: Petrus, Catherina, Robert, Margeria, Thomas, Willelmus,
Edward, Henricus and Stephanus. In parentheses (which means the
information was incorporated from another manuscript) an additional
five children are listed: Johannes obijt puer, Adam obijt puer, Hugo
obijt puer, Radulphus obijt puer, and Anna obijt virgo, plus daughter
Margeria is given a husband, Roberto Hyde de Marbery.

Given that Elizabeth Hastings is not indicated as married in the will
of her grandmother Isabel (de la Pole), Lady Morley, dated 3 May 1463
(though Elizabeth's sister Isabel is - she is referred to as Isabel
Boswell), and that there was still £20 owed by Hugh Hastings to Robert
Hildyard senior in 1485/6 as the marriage portion of his daughter, it
seems quite likely that Elizabeth Hastings did not marry Robert
Hildyard junior until after 1463. So it is not surprising that none
of their children (with the possible exception of Margery) were
married when the pedigree of the family was taken at the Visitation in
the early 1480s.

By the time Peter Hildyard, eldest son and heir of Sir Robert Hildyard
and Elizabeth Hastings, made his will in March 1502, he mentioned
three sisters, all unmarried - Muriel, Agnes and Elizabeth - and 5
brothers - Thomas, Henry, Stephen, George and Anthony. Catherine,
Robert, William and Edward, all siblings of Peter in the c.1480
Visitation pedigree of the family, aren't mentioned in his 1502 will.
It's possible provision had already been made for younger brothers
Robert, William and Edward, but more likely that they had died before
their brother Peter. Five new names pop up as Peter's siblings in
1502 - Muriel, Agnes, Elizabeth, George and Anthony - none of whom are
in the c.1480 Visitation pedigree. They must have been born after the
pedigree was taken - which means Elizabeth Hastings was still of
childbearing age in the 1480s, supporting a marriage date for her and
Robert Hildyard of post-1463. It's also interesting that there are 5
children of Robert Hildyard and Elizabeth Hastings given in
parentheses in the c.1480 pedigree and 5 children not mentioned at all
in the pedigree. There may have been some confusion on the heralds'
end in regards to the Hildyard family. But it seems safe to say that
Robert Hildyard and Elizabeth Hastings had at least 14 children during
their marriage, c.1465-1490.

What of Katherine? She is listed right after Peter in the c.1480
Visitation pedigree, and was very likely the eldest daughter.
Assuming her parents married after May 1463, and that Peter was the
firstborn child, the soonest Katherine could've been born is 1465.
She married after the c.1480 Visitation pedigree was taken, so at some
point in the 1480s. This chronology fits well with her death in 1540
(assuming she died shortly before her will was proved).

Now we need to turn to the Haldenby family. Per the 1530 Visitation
pedigree of the family taken by Herald Thomas Tonge, John Haldenby,
son of Robert Haldenby and Elizabeth Scargill, married "Kateryn,
doughter of Syr Robert Helyard, knyght: and by her he had yssue
Robert." We know the will of John's father Robert Haldenby was dated
4 November 1452. Per an article by C.M. Tenison called "Pedigree of
Haldenby of Haldenby, Yorkshire" in "Miscellanea Genealogica et
Heraldica", John's mother Elizabeth Scargill Haldenby died intestate
(administration 7 December 1452). Even if Tenison was confused and
the administration was actually to Elizabeth following her husband
Robert's death, the latest their son and heir John Haldenby could've
been born is 1452, and he was likely born somewhat earlier than the
year his parent(s) died.

So he was a good dozen years the senior of Katherine, daughter of
Robert Hildyard and Elizabeth Hastings. This is not unusual for the
15th century. Tenison gives John Haldenby and Katherine Hildyard
(whom he identifies as daughter of Sir Robert Hildyard by Elizabeth
Hastings), two children - son and heir Robert Haldenby, and a daughter
Katherine married to "Vincent Grantham, 'brother of Thomas Grantham of
Goltho in Lincolnshire'". Many Internet databases, including
Ancestral File, gives them an additional daughter, usually unnamed
(but occasionally called Anne), who was the first wife of John Baildon
of Baildon (in Otley parish), Yorks. (died 22 September 1526).

We have no dates of birth or death for the three children of John
Haldenby. John Baildon received licence on 15 October 1515 to marry
his second wife Margery Mauleverer, widow of Edward Copley of
Doncaster, and daughter of Sir Thomas Mauleverer of Allerton and
Elizabeth de la River, so his Haldenby first wife was dead by that
date. Robert Baildon, son and heir of John Baildon by the Haldenby
first wife, was born July 1496. Richard Haldenby, son and heir of
John, married Anne, daughter of Sir Guy Dawnay of Cowick, and in turn
had a son and heir Robert Haldenby who was contracted to marry Anne
Boynton of Barmston by 1521. Their son and heir, Francis Haldenby,
was born in 1529.

It's a somewhat tight chronology for Katherine Hildyard, born 1465 at
the earliest and married in the early 1480s at the soonest, to have a
great-grandchild born in 1529. Yet if her son was born by 1489, and
her grandson born by 1509, it works, and even allows Katherine to be
born as late as 1469. For Katherine to have a Baildon grandson in
1496, though, her daughter Anne(?) would need to have been born by
1480, and Katherine by 1465. This is much tighter timeframe, and the
Hildyard/Haldenby/Baildon line may not hold, and in any case, needs
more research.

After John Haldenby's death, Katherine took a second husband, William
Girlington of Normanby, and had at least two more children. I don't
have any dates for the Girlington marriage and children, and if anyone
has any estimates, I'd appreciate them. If Katherine was born, say
1465, she could've had children up to 1505 or so.

Comments and corrections welcome.

Cheers, -------Brad

wjhonson

Re: Hildyard/Haldenby Marriage & Chronology

Legg inn av wjhonson » 31 mar 2007 02:14:37

On Mar 30, 12:27 am, "Brad Verity" <royaldesc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
I've been sorting through the chronology of Katherine Hildyard, the
daughter of Sir Robert Hildyard of Winestead (d. 21 May 1501) and
Elizabeth Hastings. Modern sources say she married 1st, John Haldenby
of Haldenby, Yorks., and 2nd, William Girlington of Normanby, Lincs.,
and that her will was proved on 5 April 1540. As she is an ancestor
to colonial American gateways and has been studied previously, I
figure my ramblings through her chronology may be of interest.

Per the Hildyard pedigree in the c.1480 Visitation of the North, Sir
Robert Hildyard of Winestead and Elizabeth Hastings had the following
9 children: Petrus, Catherina, Robert, Margeria, Thomas, Willelmus,
Edward, Henricus and Stephanus. In parentheses (which means the
information was incorporated from another manuscript) an additional
five children are listed: Johannes obijt puer, Adam obijt puer, Hugo
obijt puer, Radulphus obijt puer, and Anna obijt virgo, plus daughter
Margeria is given a husband, Roberto Hyde de Marbery.

Given that Elizabeth Hastings is not indicated as married in the will
of her grandmother Isabel (de la Pole), Lady Morley, dated 3 May 1463
(though Elizabeth's sister Isabel is - she is referred to as Isabel
Boswell), and that there was still £20 owed by Hugh Hastings to Robert
Hildyard senior in 1485/6 as the marriage portion of his daughter, it
seems quite likely that Elizabeth Hastings did not marry Robert
Hildyard junior until after 1463. So it is not surprising that none
of their children (with the possible exception of Margery) were
married when the pedigree of the family was taken at the Visitation in
the early 1480s.

By the time Peter Hildyard, eldest son and heir of Sir Robert Hildyard
and Elizabeth Hastings, made his will in March 1502, he mentioned
three sisters, all unmarried - Muriel, Agnes and Elizabeth - and 5
brothers - Thomas, Henry, Stephen, George and Anthony. Catherine,
Robert, William and Edward, all siblings of Peter in the c.1480
Visitation pedigree of the family, aren't mentioned in his 1502 will.
It's possible provision had already been made for younger brothers
Robert, William and Edward, but more likely that they had died before
their brother Peter. Five new names pop up as Peter's siblings in
1502 - Muriel, Agnes, Elizabeth, George and Anthony - none of whom are
in the c.1480 Visitation pedigree. They must have been born after the
pedigree was taken - which means Elizabeth Hastings was still of
childbearing age in the 1480s, supporting a marriage date for her and
Robert Hildyard of post-1463. It's also interesting that there are 5
children of Robert Hildyard and Elizabeth Hastings given in
parentheses in the c.1480 pedigree and 5 children not mentioned at all
in the pedigree. There may have been some confusion on the heralds'
end in regards to the Hildyard family. But it seems safe to say that
Robert Hildyard and Elizabeth Hastings had at least 14 children during
their marriage, c.1465-1490.

What of Katherine? She is listed right after Peter in the c.1480
Visitation pedigree, and was very likely the eldest daughter.
Assuming her parents married after May 1463, and that Peter was the
firstborn child, the soonest Katherine could've been born is 1465.
She married after the c.1480 Visitation pedigree was taken, so at some
point in the 1480s. This chronology fits well with her death in 1540
(assuming she died shortly before her will was proved).

Now we need to turn to the Haldenby family. Per the 1530 Visitation
pedigree of the family taken by Herald Thomas Tonge, John Haldenby,
son of Robert Haldenby and Elizabeth Scargill, married "Kateryn,
doughter of Syr Robert Helyard, knyght: and by her he had yssue
Robert." We know the will of John's father Robert Haldenby was dated
4 November 1452. Per an article by C.M. Tenison called "Pedigree of
Haldenby of Haldenby, Yorkshire" in "Miscellanea Genealogica et
Heraldica", John's mother Elizabeth Scargill Haldenby died intestate
(administration 7 December 1452). Even if Tenison was confused and
the administration was actually to Elizabeth following her husband
Robert's death, the latest their son and heir John Haldenby could've
been born is 1452, and he was likely born somewhat earlier than the
year his parent(s) died.

So he was a good dozen years the senior of Katherine, daughter of
Robert Hildyard and Elizabeth Hastings. This is not unusual for the
15th century. Tenison gives John Haldenby and Katherine Hildyard
(whom he identifies as daughter of Sir Robert Hildyard by Elizabeth
Hastings), two children - son and heir Robert Haldenby, and a daughter
Katherine married to "Vincent Grantham, 'brother of Thomas Grantham of
Goltho in Lincolnshire'". Many Internet databases, including
Ancestral File, gives them an additional daughter, usually unnamed
(but occasionally called Anne), who was the first wife of John Baildon
of Baildon (in Otley parish), Yorks. (died 22 September 1526).

We have no dates of birth or death for the three children of John
Haldenby. John Baildon received licence on 15 October 1515 to marry
his second wife Margery Mauleverer, widow of Edward Copley of
Doncaster, and daughter of Sir Thomas Mauleverer of Allerton and
Elizabeth de la River, so his Haldenby first wife was dead by that
date. Robert Baildon, son and heir of John Baildon by the Haldenby
first wife, was born July 1496. Richard Haldenby, son and heir of
John, married Anne, daughter of Sir Guy Dawnay of Cowick, and in turn
had a son and heir Robert Haldenby who was contracted to marry Anne
Boynton of Barmston by 1521. Their son and heir, Francis Haldenby,
was born in 1529.

It's a somewhat tight chronology for Katherine Hildyard, born 1465 at
the earliest and married in the early 1480s at the soonest, to have a
great-grandchild born in 1529. Yet if her son was born by 1489, and
her grandson born by 1509, it works, and even allows Katherine to be
born as late as 1469. For Katherine to have a Baildon grandson in
1496, though, her daughter Anne(?) would need to have been born by
1480, and Katherine by 1465. This is much tighter timeframe, and the
Hildyard/Haldenby/Baildon line may not hold, and in any case, needs
more research.

After John Haldenby's death, Katherine took a second husband, William
Girlington of Normanby, and had at least two more children. I don't
have any dates for the Girlington marriage and children, and if anyone
has any estimates, I'd appreciate them. If Katherine was born, say
1465, she could've had children up to 1505 or so.

Comments and corrections welcome.

Cheers, -------Brad

Brad, Katherine Hildyard by her second husband William Girlington had
a daughter Isabel who married firstly Christopher Kelke and had a son
Christopher. Christopher the husband was murdered 2 Feb 1523/4

AFTER his murder his widow Isabel Girlington married secondly William
Tyrwhit who died 1539/40. They also had a son Sir Robert Trywhit of
Ketilby, Lincolnshire. Since Robert could not be born before 1524 and
his father William died in 1539/40 this gives you some slight
boundaries within which to work.

Will Johnson

Brad Verity

Re: Hildyard/Haldenby Marriage & Chronology

Legg inn av Brad Verity » 02 apr 2007 00:50:45

On Mar 30, 6:14 pm, "wjhonson" <wjhon...@aol.com> wrote:

Brad, Katherine Hildyard by her second husband William Girlington had
a daughter Isabel who married firstly Christopher Kelke and had a son
Christopher. Christopher the husband was murdered 2 Feb 1523/4

AFTER his murder his widow Isabel Girlington married secondly William
Tyrwhit who died 1539/40. They also had a son Sir Robert Trywhit of
Ketilby, Lincolnshire. Since Robert could not be born before 1524 and
his father William died in 1539/40 this gives you some slight
boundaries within which to work.

Thanks, Will. The biography of Sir Robert Tyrwhitt of Kettleby in HOP
states, "According to his grandfather's inquisition Robert Tyrwhitt
was aged 22 years and more in July 1548, but since his eldest son
William (q.v.) was of age by 1552 this must have been a conventional
under-estimate." HOP estimates his birth as "c.1510". But as every
indication points to his mother being Isabel, daughter of William
Girlington of Normanby, something is very off. Either Sir Robert had
a different mother, or his birthdate of c.1526 is correct, and the
William Tyrwhitt who was of age in 1552 was not Sir Robert's son.
Unfortunately, I don't have a copy of the HOP bio on William Tyrwhitt.

A grandson (Christopher Kelke) of William Girlington and Katherine
Hildyard born by 1524, works well with the chronology for Katherine
Hildyard that I worked out, as Katherine would've been of childbearing
age until 1505 or so.

Cheers, ----------Brad

John Higgins

Tyrwhit: [was: Re: Hildyard/Haldenby Marriage & Chronology]

Legg inn av John Higgins » 02 apr 2007 02:18:14

FWIW, here's an excerpt from the HOP bio for William Tyrwhit, supposedly son
of Sir Robert Tyrwhit and Elizabeth Oxenbridge:

The identity of the William Tyrwhitt, gentleman, returned for Huntingdon
with Thomas Maria Wingfield to Edward VI's second Parliament is not easy to
establish. He must have been a member of the Lincolnshire family, which
favoured the baptismal name William equally with Robert, and his election
was almost certainly the work of Sir Robert Tyrwhitt I who had settled in
Huntingdonshire on marrying Wingfield's mother. There is a remote
possibility that William Tyrwhitt was a son of this Sir Robert Tyrwhitt, who
predeceased his father and of whom no other trace has been found. It is
known, however, that Sir Robert was uncle to at least two Williams and
great-uncle to another. Of his nephews, the son of Sir William Tyrwhitt of
Scotter was a clerk in holy orders who held the prebend of Brampton in
Lincoln cathedral until his death in 1555, and the other was a younger son
of Philip Tyrwhitt of Barton upon Humber who received £50 under his
father's will in 1558; the great-nephew was the eldest son of the Sir Robert
Tyrwhitt of Kettleby who was returned to the Parliament of March 1553 for
Lincolnshire. It was this great-nephew, then described as 'William Tyrwhitt
esquire, a young gentleman, son and heir apparent of Sir Robert Tyrwhitt of
Lincolnshire, a man of great power in those parts', who was involved in an
action over lands in Lincolnshire said to have been sold to him unlawfully
in or before 1552. He may thus be thought to have come of age recently and
to have been eligible for the seat at Huntingdon early in 1553, and he is
therefore taken to have been the Member. His father stood close to his
great-uncle, his uncle Tristram was to be chosen for the town in 1571, and
his younger brothers were to be beneficiaries under the great-uncle's will a
year later.

[end of quote]

The Sir Robert Tyrwhit I mentioned here is NOT the Sir Robert who mar.
Elizabeth, dau. of Thomas Oxenbridge, but instead this Sir Robert's uncle
who mar. Elizabeth, dau. of Sir Goddard Oxenbridge.

The HOP bio for William Tyrwhit also says that his marriage settlement (for
his marriage with Elizabeth Frescheville) was dated 1 Sept 1576. This seems
a very late marriage if he was in fact of age in 1552/3 and thus born ca.
1531. I'd guess that the answer to this puzzle is that the William who was
of age in 1552, and was the MP for Huntingdon in 1553, was NOT the William,
son of the younger Sir Robert and Elizabeth, dau. of Thomas Oxenbridge -
despite what HOP thinks.

FWIW, Maddison's "Lincolnshire Pedigrees" (HSP vol. 52) does not indicate
that the William who mar. Elizabeth Frescheville was an MP. But it also
doesn't identify any other Tyrwhit as the mysterious William who was MP for
Huntingdon in 1553. Also, it seems a bit strange that the younger Sir
Robert and his son William would both be in Parliament in 1553 (and for
different counties), especially since William (if he was born in 1531) was
just barely of age.

Most confusing....


----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Verity" <royaldescent@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: Hildyard/Haldenby Marriage & Chronology


On Mar 30, 6:14 pm, "wjhonson" <wjhon...@aol.com> wrote:

Brad, Katherine Hildyard by her second husband William Girlington had
a daughter Isabel who married firstly Christopher Kelke and had a son
Christopher. Christopher the husband was murdered 2 Feb 1523/4

AFTER his murder his widow Isabel Girlington married secondly William
Tyrwhit who died 1539/40. They also had a son Sir Robert Trywhit of
Ketilby, Lincolnshire. Since Robert could not be born before 1524 and
his father William died in 1539/40 this gives you some slight
boundaries within which to work.

Thanks, Will. The biography of Sir Robert Tyrwhitt of Kettleby in HOP
states, "According to his grandfather's inquisition Robert Tyrwhitt
was aged 22 years and more in July 1548, but since his eldest son
William (q.v.) was of age by 1552 this must have been a conventional
under-estimate." HOP estimates his birth as "c.1510". But as every
indication points to his mother being Isabel, daughter of William
Girlington of Normanby, something is very off. Either Sir Robert had
a different mother, or his birthdate of c.1526 is correct, and the
William Tyrwhitt who was of age in 1552 was not Sir Robert's son.
Unfortunately, I don't have a copy of the HOP bio on William Tyrwhitt.

A grandson (Christopher Kelke) of William Girlington and Katherine
Hildyard born by 1524, works well with the chronology for Katherine
Hildyard that I worked out, as Katherine would've been of childbearing
age until 1505 or so.

Cheers, ----------Brad


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Brad Verity

Re: Tyrwhit: [was: Re: Hildyard/Haldenby Marriage & Chronolo

Legg inn av Brad Verity » 02 apr 2007 05:31:05

On Apr 1, 6:18 pm, "John Higgins" <jthigg...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

The HOP bio for William Tyrwhit also says that his marriage settlement (for
his marriage with Elizabeth Frescheville) was dated 1 Sept 1576. This seems
a very late marriage if he was in fact of age in 1552/3 and thus born ca.
1531. I'd guess that the answer to this puzzle is that the William who was
of age in 1552, and was the MP for Huntingdon in 1553, was NOT the William,
son of the younger Sir Robert and Elizabeth, dau. of Thomas Oxenbridge -
despite what HOP thinks.

I agree. Thank you very much, John, for looking further into this and
posting the paragraph from the HOP bio of William Tyrwhitt.

FWIW, Maddison's "Lincolnshire Pedigrees" (HSP vol. 52) does not indicate
that the William who mar. Elizabeth Frescheville was an MP. But it also
doesn't identify any other Tyrwhit as the mysterious William who was MP for
Huntingdon in 1553. Also, it seems a bit strange that the younger Sir
Robert and his son William would both be in Parliament in 1553 (and for
different counties), especially since William (if he was born in 1531) was
just barely of age.

Most confusing....

Yes. I can't fathom who was the William Tyrwhitt who was M.P. in
1553, but it seems fairly certain he couldn't have been the son of Sir
Robert Tyrwhitt of Kettleby (c.1526-1581) and Elizabeth Oxenbridge.

Cheers, --------Brad

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