Penelope West wife of Herbert Pelham
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
wjhonson
Penelope West wife of Herbert Pelham
Here in AR8 we see
<a href = "http://content.ancestry.com/Browse/BookView.aspx?
dbid=49030&iid=FLHG_AncestralRoots-0028">Ancestral Roots, 8th Edition,
Line 1, pg 1-4</a> stating "d abt 1619"
that he states that that Penelope West who m Herbert Pelham and by
this were grandparents to that Penelope Pelham (by their son also
Herbert Pelham) who married Josiah Winslow, Governor of Plymouth
Colony
They here state that she, Penelope West, "d abt 1619"
It's interesting that the author overlooks the detailed account of the
family in NEHGR
here
http://books.google.com/books?vid=0L8Iq ... 1-PA289,M1
that she was "fourth daughter" and her birthdate
which among *other* things states that that Penelope Pelham who was "b
abt 1619" was "fourth daughter" BUT that there was another daughter
Elizabeth called "age 70" in a 1693 and stated there to be "living in
Boston with her sister Penelope"
Since the roll was writen, as it is stated there, by a person who
would know, and since the author there states that he *does find* in
the Parish Register at Boston, Lincs. a baptism for Elizabeth dau of
Herbert Pelham in 1624 and there states that this must be her, I find
the omission curious.
Does the author of AR8 believe that Herbert had a wife other than
Penelope West? Or did the author overlook this account which clearly
must imply that Penelope West was still alive as late as 1624 ?
I submit this as an AR8 correction. Can someone verify if Douglas has
this correction? I do not have his book.
Thanks
Will Johnson
<a href = "http://content.ancestry.com/Browse/BookView.aspx?
dbid=49030&iid=FLHG_AncestralRoots-0028">Ancestral Roots, 8th Edition,
Line 1, pg 1-4</a> stating "d abt 1619"
that he states that that Penelope West who m Herbert Pelham and by
this were grandparents to that Penelope Pelham (by their son also
Herbert Pelham) who married Josiah Winslow, Governor of Plymouth
Colony
They here state that she, Penelope West, "d abt 1619"
It's interesting that the author overlooks the detailed account of the
family in NEHGR
here
http://books.google.com/books?vid=0L8Iq ... 1-PA289,M1
that she was "fourth daughter" and her birthdate
which among *other* things states that that Penelope Pelham who was "b
abt 1619" was "fourth daughter" BUT that there was another daughter
Elizabeth called "age 70" in a 1693 and stated there to be "living in
Boston with her sister Penelope"
Since the roll was writen, as it is stated there, by a person who
would know, and since the author there states that he *does find* in
the Parish Register at Boston, Lincs. a baptism for Elizabeth dau of
Herbert Pelham in 1624 and there states that this must be her, I find
the omission curious.
Does the author of AR8 believe that Herbert had a wife other than
Penelope West? Or did the author overlook this account which clearly
must imply that Penelope West was still alive as late as 1624 ?
I submit this as an AR8 correction. Can someone verify if Douglas has
this correction? I do not have his book.
Thanks
Will Johnson
-
John Brandon
Re: Penelope West wife of Herbert Pelham
I'm not exactly following what you're saying, but there is good
evidence there was an Elizabeth Pelham alive in New England ca. 1681.
See _Records and Files of the Essex Quarterly Courts_, 8:137:
http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/salem/wit ... ex137.html
See also
http://books.google.com/books?vid=0SJbt ... +Pelham%22
evidence there was an Elizabeth Pelham alive in New England ca. 1681.
See _Records and Files of the Essex Quarterly Courts_, 8:137:
http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/salem/wit ... ex137.html
See also
http://books.google.com/books?vid=0SJbt ... +Pelham%22
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wjhonson
Re: Penelope West wife of Herbert Pelham
On Mar 29, 10:36 am, "John Brandon" <starbuc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
I'm saying John that the statement in AR8 that Penelope "d abt 1619"
is an error.
In order to have a daughter Elizabeth baptised in 1624, Penelope the
mother must be instead "d AFT June 1624" at least if not later.
Herbert Pelham the husband of Penelope West, died intestate, and
Penelope if she survived him must also have died intestate as no
will's survive for either. Since Herbert is *known* to have been
buried 20 Jul 1624 just 12 days after the birth of his last child I'd
say the odds are good that Penelope survived him.
There is an IPM for Herbert however, which I don't have, but which
might make that detail clear.
Will Johnson
I'm not exactly following what you're saying, but there is good
evidence there was an Elizabeth Pelham alive in New England ca. 1681.
See _Records and Files of the Essex Quarterly Courts_, 8:137:
http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/salem/wit ... ges/esse...
See also
http://books.google.com/books?vid=0SJbt ... dvTWMOw7...
I'm saying John that the statement in AR8 that Penelope "d abt 1619"
is an error.
In order to have a daughter Elizabeth baptised in 1624, Penelope the
mother must be instead "d AFT June 1624" at least if not later.
Herbert Pelham the husband of Penelope West, died intestate, and
Penelope if she survived him must also have died intestate as no
will's survive for either. Since Herbert is *known* to have been
buried 20 Jul 1624 just 12 days after the birth of his last child I'd
say the odds are good that Penelope survived him.
There is an IPM for Herbert however, which I don't have, but which
might make that detail clear.
Will Johnson
-
Leo van de Pas
Re: Penelope West wife of Herbert Pelham
Dear Will,
I wonder about one detail, you give that Herbert Pelham was buried 20 July
1624.. Weiss in his Ancestral Roots, 7th edition, page 4, tells he died 20
July 1624 in Boston, co.Lincoln. Do you think he was buried on the day he
died?
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
----- Original Message -----
From: "wjhonson" <wjhonson@aol.com>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 4:46 AM
Subject: Re: Penelope West wife of Herbert Pelham
I wonder about one detail, you give that Herbert Pelham was buried 20 July
1624.. Weiss in his Ancestral Roots, 7th edition, page 4, tells he died 20
July 1624 in Boston, co.Lincoln. Do you think he was buried on the day he
died?
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
----- Original Message -----
From: "wjhonson" <wjhonson@aol.com>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 4:46 AM
Subject: Re: Penelope West wife of Herbert Pelham
On Mar 29, 10:36 am, "John Brandon" <starbuc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
I'm not exactly following what you're saying, but there is good
evidence there was an Elizabeth Pelham alive in New England ca. 1681.
See _Records and Files of the Essex Quarterly Courts_, 8:137:
http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/salem/wit ... ges/esse...
See also
http://books.google.com/books?vid=0SJbt ... dvTWMOw7...
I'm saying John that the statement in AR8 that Penelope "d abt 1619"
is an error.
In order to have a daughter Elizabeth baptised in 1624, Penelope the
mother must be instead "d AFT June 1624" at least if not later.
Herbert Pelham the husband of Penelope West, died intestate, and
Penelope if she survived him must also have died intestate as no
will's survive for either. Since Herbert is *known* to have been
buried 20 Jul 1624 just 12 days after the birth of his last child I'd
say the odds are good that Penelope survived him.
There is an IPM for Herbert however, which I don't have, but which
might make that detail clear.
Will Johnson
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wjhonson
Re: Penelope West wife of Herbert Pelham
Scouring this line with a scorned-earth policy, took me unexpectedly
into the "Thetcher" family of Priesthawes in Westham parish, Sussex.
Sometimes they are called Thatcher or Thacker as well.
It has been said about Anne Tresham (the daughter of Sir Thomas
Tresham d 1605 by his wife Muriel Throckmorton d 1615), that this Anne
married William "Fletcher" of Sussex.
That can now be corrected to William Thetcher of Priesthawes, co
Sussex per the below document.
Will Johnson
---------------------
East Sussex Record Office: Archive of the Portman family of Buxted
Place
ARCHIVE OF THE PORTMAN FAMILY OF BUXTED PLACE
Catalogue Ref. SAS/PN
Creator(s): Portman family, Viscounts Portman
SUSSEX
MERSHAM, PETT, FAIRLIGHT, WESTHAM ETC
FILE - Counterpart of Grant - ref. SAS/PN/548 - date: 20 Jan 1612
[from Scope and Content] By JAMES THETCHER of Preisthawes in Westham,
esq., to WILLIAM THETCHER, son of the said James, and ANNE THETCHER,
wife of the said William, one of the daughters of Dame Merrill
Tresham, widow, and Sir Thomas Tresham, knt. decd. her late husband, -
in consideration of the marriage between the said William and Anne his
wife and of £2000 paid by the appointment of the said Dame Merrill
Tresham in marriage with the said Anne to the said James Thetcher - of
an Annuity of £200 to be issuing out of the manor of Mersham and out
of the scite and capital messuage of the said manor of Mersham and out
of all lands, tenements belonging With power of distress
[from Scope and Content] Covenant by James Thetcher to provide during
his life for the said William and Anne his wife and their children,
servants and horses sufficient meate, drink, lodging and horsemeate
And it it should happen that either the said William or the said James
"to mislike of dyeting or dwelling together and the said William
should thereupon forbeare to board, sojourne or dyet with the said
James, then the said granted to the said William one other annuity of
£100
into the "Thetcher" family of Priesthawes in Westham parish, Sussex.
Sometimes they are called Thatcher or Thacker as well.
It has been said about Anne Tresham (the daughter of Sir Thomas
Tresham d 1605 by his wife Muriel Throckmorton d 1615), that this Anne
married William "Fletcher" of Sussex.
That can now be corrected to William Thetcher of Priesthawes, co
Sussex per the below document.
Will Johnson
---------------------
East Sussex Record Office: Archive of the Portman family of Buxted
Place
ARCHIVE OF THE PORTMAN FAMILY OF BUXTED PLACE
Catalogue Ref. SAS/PN
Creator(s): Portman family, Viscounts Portman
SUSSEX
MERSHAM, PETT, FAIRLIGHT, WESTHAM ETC
FILE - Counterpart of Grant - ref. SAS/PN/548 - date: 20 Jan 1612
[from Scope and Content] By JAMES THETCHER of Preisthawes in Westham,
esq., to WILLIAM THETCHER, son of the said James, and ANNE THETCHER,
wife of the said William, one of the daughters of Dame Merrill
Tresham, widow, and Sir Thomas Tresham, knt. decd. her late husband, -
in consideration of the marriage between the said William and Anne his
wife and of £2000 paid by the appointment of the said Dame Merrill
Tresham in marriage with the said Anne to the said James Thetcher - of
an Annuity of £200 to be issuing out of the manor of Mersham and out
of the scite and capital messuage of the said manor of Mersham and out
of all lands, tenements belonging With power of distress
[from Scope and Content] Covenant by James Thetcher to provide during
his life for the said William and Anne his wife and their children,
servants and horses sufficient meate, drink, lodging and horsemeate
And it it should happen that either the said William or the said James
"to mislike of dyeting or dwelling together and the said William
should thereupon forbeare to board, sojourne or dyet with the said
James, then the said granted to the said William one other annuity of
£100
-
wjhonson
Re: Penelope West wife of Herbert Pelham
Leo
http://books.google.com/books?vid=0L8Iq ... 1-PA289,M1
Which is
NEHGR, Vol 33, 1879, In an article "Herbert Pelham, His Ancestors and
Descendents", by Joseph Lemuel Chester, LLD, pages 285-295 on page 290
states "married about 1599 Penelope West" "...he was buried in the Rev
John Cotton's church...according to the parish register, on the 20th
of July 1624. His IPM dated 20 June, 1625, says that he died the last
day of July last past" a discrepancy of at least eleven days
Will Johnson
http://books.google.com/books?vid=0L8Iq ... 1-PA289,M1
Which is
NEHGR, Vol 33, 1879, In an article "Herbert Pelham, His Ancestors and
Descendents", by Joseph Lemuel Chester, LLD, pages 285-295 on page 290
states "married about 1599 Penelope West" "...he was buried in the Rev
John Cotton's church...according to the parish register, on the 20th
of July 1624. His IPM dated 20 June, 1625, says that he died the last
day of July last past" a discrepancy of at least eleven days
Will Johnson
-
Douglas Richardson
Re: Penelope West wife of Herbert Pelham
On Mar 29, 11:22 am, "wjhonson" <wjhon...@aol.com> wrote:
< I submit this as an AR8 correction. Can someone verify if Douglas
has
< this correction? I do not have his book.
<
< Thanks
< Will Johnson
Dear Will ~
Yes, Douglas shows that Herbert Pelham had a second wife, Anne.
If you're interested in pursuing this matter further, I might suggest
that you contact Marston Watson, of Richmond, California, who is
writing a book on the Pelham family. I had lunch today with Marston,
and we discussed his plans for the upcoming book.
Also, since you have expressed an interest in my books, I might
recommend you purchase a copy of one or both of them. You can contact
me offline about ordering either title.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
< I submit this as an AR8 correction. Can someone verify if Douglas
has
< this correction? I do not have his book.
<
< Thanks
< Will Johnson
Dear Will ~
Yes, Douglas shows that Herbert Pelham had a second wife, Anne.
If you're interested in pursuing this matter further, I might suggest
that you contact Marston Watson, of Richmond, California, who is
writing a book on the Pelham family. I had lunch today with Marston,
and we discussed his plans for the upcoming book.
Also, since you have expressed an interest in my books, I might
recommend you purchase a copy of one or both of them. You can contact
me offline about ordering either title.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
-
wjhonson
Re: Penelope West wife of Herbert Pelham
The NEHGR article already cited at the top of this thread states that
the 1693 roll states that Penelope West and Herbert Pelham had 16
children. The articles states that the roll doesn't actually name all
16. I believe I have accomplished that task. Hopefully these details
can help with the family's biography.
http://www.countyhistorian.com/cecilweb ... elope_West
Will Johnson
the 1693 roll states that Penelope West and Herbert Pelham had 16
children. The articles states that the roll doesn't actually name all
16. I believe I have accomplished that task. Hopefully these details
can help with the family's biography.
http://www.countyhistorian.com/cecilweb ... elope_West
Will Johnson