First I must admit that I am not very well versed in the medieval history of Ireland and I may well have overlooked an enormous piece of history.
I have been given information I just cannot substantiate, but that does not mean it is not correct. Let me quote :
=============........ XYZ is a descendant of Grania or Grace O'Malley (Granuaille) who was granted the Barony of Burrishoole (UK and Irish Peerage) she was also Queen of Connaught and also Head of the Princely House of O'Malley (other than a Queen Pirate) descendant of Bryan High King of Ireland 365 AD.
The evidence of this said Perdigree is in the National Library of Ireland in Dublin under Sir Samuel O'Malley, both my father and my mother are entered in this said manuscript. (Does this person mean "added to this manuscripot" or entered when this manuscript was made, which would make it very recent as this person gives his/her year of birth 1946).
For your information - The heads of the Princely House of O'Malleys have been Protestant since Grania of Grace O'Malley's death (last Monarch of Connaught)
==============
On the Internet I have found Grania/Grace described as "the Pirate Queen of Connaught" but in this I read only that she came _from_ Connaught, and was no monarch.
Grace/Grania was married twice: to an O'Flaherty and a Bourke, having children by both, but still this person whose father is an O'Malley claims to be the lineal descendant and to be the Head of the Princely House of O'Malley, something I had never heard of before.Walter J.P. Curley in his "Monarchs in Waiting" mentions the following families with ancient claims : O'Conor, O'Brien and O'Neill--------no O'Malley
In CP there is no trace of any Barony of Burrishoole but this person claims to be entitled to this Barony.
Am I missing out on knowledge, or is someone just having some fun?
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
The Princely House of O'Malley
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Nathaniel Taylor
Re: The Princely House of O'Malley
In article <mailman.175.1173847386.3661.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>,
"Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au> wrote:
Likely the latter--and perhaps the person is not just having 'fun'. Ask
Sean J. Murphy, over on rec.heraldry: expert and conscientious watchdog
of bogus Irish chiefs and barons. See his pages at:
http://homepage.eircom.net/~seanjmurphy/chiefs/
In Ireland a barony was a simple civil territorial unit at one time;
recently (since late 20th c.) there have been a number of fraudulent
attempts to claim some barony or other as a noble title--and especially
to seek to sell them as such, to the gullible. This too is a popular
subject at rec.heraldry.
Nat Taylor
http://www.nltaylor.net
"Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au> wrote:
First I must admit that I am not very well versed in the medieval history of
Ireland and I may well have overlooked an enormous piece of history.
I have been given information I just cannot substantiate, but that does not
mean it is not correct. Let me quote :
==============
....... XYZ is a descendant of Grania or Grace O'Malley (Granuaille) who was
granted the Barony of Burrishoole (UK and Irish Peerage) she was also Queen
of Connaught and also Head of the Princely House of O'Malley (other than a
Queen Pirate) descendant of Bryan High King of Ireland 365 AD.
The evidence of this said Perdigree is in the National Library of Ireland in
Dublin under Sir Samuel O'Malley, both my father and my mother are entered in
this said manuscript. (Does this person mean "added to this manuscripot" or
entered when this manuscript was made, which would make it very recent as
this person gives his/her year of birth 1946).
For your information - The heads of the Princely House of O'Malleys have been
Protestant since Grania of Grace O'Malley's death (last Monarch of Connaught)
===============
On the Internet I have found Grania/Grace described as "the Pirate Queen of
Connaught" but in this I read only that she came from Connaught, and was no
monarch.
Grace/Grania was married twice: to an O'Flaherty and a Bourke, having
children by both, but still this person whose father is an O'Malley claims to
be the lineal descendant and to be the Head of the Princely House of
O'Malley, something I had never heard of before.Walter J.P. Curley in his
"Monarchs in Waiting" mentions the following families with ancient claims :
O'Conor, O'Brien and O'Neill--------no O'Malley
In CP there is no trace of any Barony of Burrishoole but this person claims
to be entitled to this Barony.
Am I missing out on knowledge, or is someone just having some fun?
Likely the latter--and perhaps the person is not just having 'fun'. Ask
Sean J. Murphy, over on rec.heraldry: expert and conscientious watchdog
of bogus Irish chiefs and barons. See his pages at:
http://homepage.eircom.net/~seanjmurphy/chiefs/
In Ireland a barony was a simple civil territorial unit at one time;
recently (since late 20th c.) there have been a number of fraudulent
attempts to claim some barony or other as a noble title--and especially
to seek to sell them as such, to the gullible. This too is a popular
subject at rec.heraldry.
Nat Taylor
http://www.nltaylor.net
-
Gjest
Re: The Princely House of O'Malley
(Second atttempt to post this.)
365 is well before the documented history of Ireland. No one can
substantiate a pedigree going back that far.
According to legend, the first High King was Niall of the Nine
Hostages, from whom the O'Neil family allegedly descend. The O'Brien
family supposedly descend from a brother of Niall. But this is all
prehistoric myth.
Irish kingship was elective, so the succession passed from cousin to
cousin rather than from father to son. There have been no elections
for several centuries, so any claims to headships lack legitimacy.
In the genealogical tables of Byrne ("Irish Kings and High-Kings"),
the O'Briens are shown competing for the kingship of Connaught with
another line (from another brother of Niall). The kingship passed
backwards and forwards between the two lines, and between various
branches. The tables are very complicated. Some kings are given
alternative ancestries, other can not be fitted in at all.
The last king of Connaught was Cathal Crobderg, who died in 1224.
365 is well before the documented history of Ireland. No one can
substantiate a pedigree going back that far.
According to legend, the first High King was Niall of the Nine
Hostages, from whom the O'Neil family allegedly descend. The O'Brien
family supposedly descend from a brother of Niall. But this is all
prehistoric myth.
Irish kingship was elective, so the succession passed from cousin to
cousin rather than from father to son. There have been no elections
for several centuries, so any claims to headships lack legitimacy.
In the genealogical tables of Byrne ("Irish Kings and High-Kings"),
the O'Briens are shown competing for the kingship of Connaught with
another line (from another brother of Niall). The kingship passed
backwards and forwards between the two lines, and between various
branches. The tables are very complicated. Some kings are given
alternative ancestries, other can not be fitted in at all.
The last king of Connaught was Cathal Crobderg, who died in 1224.