umberto of savoy

Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper

Svar
jlucsoler

umberto of savoy

Legg inn av jlucsoler » 11 mar 2007 05:26:20

just because lots of charters can be available on the web fro my region....
and maybe we can have new stuff

it seems very strange dor me to see a "new man" becoming so powerful and
active with the emperor

i have to add i saw a theory of STASSER following Manteyer giving to Umberto
Hugh count in Burgundy (son of Garnier OF SENS) and Willa as parents

JL

Peter Stewart

Re: umberto of savoy

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 11 mar 2007 07:04:42

"jlucsoler" <jlucsoler@modulonet.fr> wrote in message
news:45f384e8$0$3462$a3f2974a@nnrp1.numericable.fr...
just because lots of charters can be available on the web fro my
region....
and maybe we can have new stuff

it seems very strange dor me to see a "new man" becoming so powerful and
active with the emperor

There is no ground to suppose he was a "new man" just because we don't know
his ancestry - his extraction could very well be obscure to us today without
having been so to his contemporaries. We know that his family held lands in
Burgundy, and there are counts with his own and his (eldest?) son's names
Humbert and Amadeus occurring with the Burgundian king around the middle of
the 10th century, a generation or two before Umberto I's time. The
hypotheses mainly play around with the names of his other sons Burchard and
Odo, but these were plainly not uncommon enough to indicate a specific
connection.

So we don't know what we don't know. If the family background of Umberto I
should be discovered for certain, this will be very big news indeed on SGM,
and elsewhere. It is most unlikely that this will come about merely through
names appearing in a charter, as people in his time & before were very
rarely identified in such documents by anything apart from their baptismal
names and official titles - unless he could be shown to possess lands that
he must have inherited from a known individual or a noted family, we would
only be left with more guesses. And surely we have more than enough of those
already.

Peter Stewart

Mcs

Re: umberto of savoy

Legg inn av Mcs » 11 mar 2007 10:59:03

Peter Stewart a écrit :
...
Burgundy, and there are counts with his own and his (eldest?) son's names
Humbert and Amadeus occurring with the Burgundian king ...

Do we (except me!) know onomastic relations between Amadeus and
Ademarus (or Ademaro) ?


Cordialement,
--
|Claude Safon, Amateur d'Histoire et de Généalogie(mcsmntpl@wanadoo.fr)|
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|

Peter Stewart

Re: umberto of savoy

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 11 mar 2007 11:05:49

"Mcs" <mcsmntpl@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:45f3d2b2$0$27390$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr...
Peter Stewart a écrit :
...
Burgundy, and there are counts with his own and his (eldest?) son's
names Humbert and Amadeus occurring with the Burgundian king ...

Do we (except me!) know onomastic relations between Amadeus and
Ademarus (or Ademaro) ?

These are completely unrelated names - Amadeus is Latin and Ademar is
Germanic.

Peter Stewart

Mcs

Re: umberto of savoy

Legg inn av Mcs » 11 mar 2007 11:23:56

Peter Stewart a écrit :
...
Burgundy, and there are counts with his own and his (eldest?) son's
names Humbert and Amadeus occurring with the Burgundian king ...
Do we (except me!) know onomastic relations between Amadeus and
Ademarus (or Ademaro) ?

These are completely unrelated names - Amadeus is Latin and Ademar is
Germanic.

Ok, thanks.
The question became from the fact that the others names cited
(Burchard, Hugues) are very often in the family Lambert/Ademar/Hugues
from Burgundy/Provence/Italy.


Cordialement,
--
|Claude Safon, Amateur d'Histoire et de Généalogie(mcsmntpl@wanadoo.fr)|
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|

Gjest

Re: umberto of savoy

Legg inn av Gjest » 13 mar 2007 15:29:15

in French Romance the father of Umberto of Savoy was Amadeus of Gaul,
Count of Maurienne-Savoy, son of [another] Umberto, Marquis of
Tuscany, brother of Lothaire II, King of Italy, sons of Hugh of Vienne
i don't know why Amadeus is called "of Gaul", but that is how he is
described in the romance

pip, TZ, 103

Svar

Gå tilbake til «soc.genealogy.medieval»