just because lots of charters can be available on the web fro my region....
and maybe we can have new stuff
it seems very strange dor me to see a "new man" becoming so powerful and
active with the emperor
i have to add i saw a theory of STASSER following Manteyer giving to Umberto
Hugh count in Burgundy (son of Garnier OF SENS) and Willa as parents
JL
umberto of savoy
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Peter Stewart
Re: umberto of savoy
"jlucsoler" <jlucsoler@modulonet.fr> wrote in message
news:45f384e8$0$3462$a3f2974a@nnrp1.numericable.fr...
There is no ground to suppose he was a "new man" just because we don't know
his ancestry - his extraction could very well be obscure to us today without
having been so to his contemporaries. We know that his family held lands in
Burgundy, and there are counts with his own and his (eldest?) son's names
Humbert and Amadeus occurring with the Burgundian king around the middle of
the 10th century, a generation or two before Umberto I's time. The
hypotheses mainly play around with the names of his other sons Burchard and
Odo, but these were plainly not uncommon enough to indicate a specific
connection.
So we don't know what we don't know. If the family background of Umberto I
should be discovered for certain, this will be very big news indeed on SGM,
and elsewhere. It is most unlikely that this will come about merely through
names appearing in a charter, as people in his time & before were very
rarely identified in such documents by anything apart from their baptismal
names and official titles - unless he could be shown to possess lands that
he must have inherited from a known individual or a noted family, we would
only be left with more guesses. And surely we have more than enough of those
already.
Peter Stewart
news:45f384e8$0$3462$a3f2974a@nnrp1.numericable.fr...
just because lots of charters can be available on the web fro my
region....
and maybe we can have new stuff
it seems very strange dor me to see a "new man" becoming so powerful and
active with the emperor
There is no ground to suppose he was a "new man" just because we don't know
his ancestry - his extraction could very well be obscure to us today without
having been so to his contemporaries. We know that his family held lands in
Burgundy, and there are counts with his own and his (eldest?) son's names
Humbert and Amadeus occurring with the Burgundian king around the middle of
the 10th century, a generation or two before Umberto I's time. The
hypotheses mainly play around with the names of his other sons Burchard and
Odo, but these were plainly not uncommon enough to indicate a specific
connection.
So we don't know what we don't know. If the family background of Umberto I
should be discovered for certain, this will be very big news indeed on SGM,
and elsewhere. It is most unlikely that this will come about merely through
names appearing in a charter, as people in his time & before were very
rarely identified in such documents by anything apart from their baptismal
names and official titles - unless he could be shown to possess lands that
he must have inherited from a known individual or a noted family, we would
only be left with more guesses. And surely we have more than enough of those
already.
Peter Stewart
-
Mcs
Re: umberto of savoy
Peter Stewart a écrit :
Do we (except me!) know onomastic relations between Amadeus and
Ademarus (or Ademaro) ?
Cordialement,
--
|Claude Safon, Amateur d'Histoire et de Généalogie(mcsmntpl@wanadoo.fr)|
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
...
Burgundy, and there are counts with his own and his (eldest?) son's names
Humbert and Amadeus occurring with the Burgundian king ...
Do we (except me!) know onomastic relations between Amadeus and
Ademarus (or Ademaro) ?
Cordialement,
--
|Claude Safon, Amateur d'Histoire et de Généalogie(mcsmntpl@wanadoo.fr)|
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
-
Peter Stewart
Re: umberto of savoy
"Mcs" <mcsmntpl@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:45f3d2b2$0$27390$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr...
These are completely unrelated names - Amadeus is Latin and Ademar is
Germanic.
Peter Stewart
news:45f3d2b2$0$27390$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr...
Peter Stewart a écrit :
...
Burgundy, and there are counts with his own and his (eldest?) son's
names Humbert and Amadeus occurring with the Burgundian king ...
Do we (except me!) know onomastic relations between Amadeus and
Ademarus (or Ademaro) ?
These are completely unrelated names - Amadeus is Latin and Ademar is
Germanic.
Peter Stewart
-
Mcs
Re: umberto of savoy
Peter Stewart a écrit :
Ok, thanks.
The question became from the fact that the others names cited
(Burchard, Hugues) are very often in the family Lambert/Ademar/Hugues
from Burgundy/Provence/Italy.
Cordialement,
--
|Claude Safon, Amateur d'Histoire et de Généalogie(mcsmntpl@wanadoo.fr)|
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
...
Burgundy, and there are counts with his own and his (eldest?) son's
names Humbert and Amadeus occurring with the Burgundian king ...
Do we (except me!) know onomastic relations between Amadeus and
Ademarus (or Ademaro) ?
These are completely unrelated names - Amadeus is Latin and Ademar is
Germanic.
Ok, thanks.
The question became from the fact that the others names cited
(Burchard, Hugues) are very often in the family Lambert/Ademar/Hugues
from Burgundy/Provence/Italy.
Cordialement,
--
|Claude Safon, Amateur d'Histoire et de Généalogie(mcsmntpl@wanadoo.fr)|
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
-
Gjest
Re: umberto of savoy
in French Romance the father of Umberto of Savoy was Amadeus of Gaul,
Count of Maurienne-Savoy, son of [another] Umberto, Marquis of
Tuscany, brother of Lothaire II, King of Italy, sons of Hugh of Vienne
i don't know why Amadeus is called "of Gaul", but that is how he is
described in the romance
pip, TZ, 103
Count of Maurienne-Savoy, son of [another] Umberto, Marquis of
Tuscany, brother of Lothaire II, King of Italy, sons of Hugh of Vienne
i don't know why Amadeus is called "of Gaul", but that is how he is
described in the romance
pip, TZ, 103