----- Original Message -----
From: "Christina Wilson" <fmlyhntr@sunset.net
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 2:43 AM
Subject: Skjalm Hvide
Is there a good book or website (preferably in
English or German, my
Danish is not very good) on Skjalm Hvide, a Danish
lord who died about
1113.
Christina
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1) There is a Danish book upon the chieftain family/
families of the Hvide clan:
Marianne Johansen & Helle Halding, "Thi de var af stor
slaegt", Ebeltoft 2001. ISBN 8789224620
In Danish. And thus probably nothing such the person
is asking for.
2) most of the scarce knowledge extant today about
Skjalm "Hvide" (more authentically, medieval "lord
Skjalm Tokesen"), is actually from the Gesta Danorum
by Saxo Grammaticus. Those ancient books are
translated to English. But knowing from them what
actually happened, requires competence as historian -
those books are more or less medieval legends, and
grains of truth are extracted from legends by
professional historians, not by those who take legends
at their face value.
I actually do not believe that there is enough
historically valid material known about Skjalm himself
to warrant a full book. Rather, a chapter in a book. A
couple of pages.
3) it is suspected that genealogies around Skjalm
(making him ancestor of "all" Danish noble lineages,
more or less) are mythical and cannot be taken at face
value
No doubt that medieval Danish chieftain families of
12th and 13th centuries were more or less related with
each other - but probably more through marriages, and
through female descents, than being "lineages started
by different sons of Skjalm"
This is sort of "Noah and Ark" phenomenon of folklore:
one man is focused as ancestor of all later in male
line... Probably not true.
I happened to find an English translation about most
of the contents what the Danske Biografisk Lexikon
reads upon Skjalm:
"The DBL states the following regarding Skjalm: Died
about 1113, buried Fjenneslev church, Denmark.
Following a far more recent genealogy Skjalm is said
to be the son of Toke Trylle, in which case he
belonged to a powerful family of Sjaelland and owned
estates across that island, though especially around
Soroe. Skjalm was for a long period Jarl [Earl] of
Sjaelland, perhaps as early as 1062 when he followed
king Sweyn II Estridsen in the struggle against king
Harald III of Norway at Niså. Saxo [Saxo Grammaticus,
a near-contemporary chronicler and one of the main
sources for this period of Danish history] comments
particularly on Skjalm's man Aslak's bravery in the
battle. Regarding Skjalm himself Saxo tells us that he
after a bold fight was wounded and taken prisoner,
though he escaped at Gedesoe. The next mention Saxo
makes of him is towards the end of the century perhaps
during the reign of king Oluf the Hunger, when his
brother Avte, being on his way from Sjaelland to
Falster was attacked and killed by Wendish vikings. As
revenge Skjalm raised an army on Sjaelland (Saxo
marvelled at this being done without consent of the
King), travelled to Julin (or Jomsborg) and forced the
populace to surrender the guilty parties, which were
killed under gruesome circumstances. Skjalm might have
participated when king Eric I The Good began his
victorious campaign against the Wends. After the
conquest of Rügen Skjalm was appointed Chief of that
island. When King Erik and Queen Bodil set off on
their pilgrimage in 1102 they left their young son
Knut (later known as Canute Lavard) under the
protection of Skjalm. A few years later the young man
was sent to Duke Lothar of Saxony. It must be supposed
that Skjalm died at an advanced age. He was buried at
the church by his main estate at Fjaldenslev (now
Fjenneslev). He was later translated by (his grandson)
the bishop, then archbishop Absalon to Soroe."
(by translated I think he means transported).
Fw: Fw: Skjalm Hvide
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Leo van de Pas
Fw: Fw: Skjalm Hvide
I asked someone for you, and here at the bottom is the reply
-
Christina Wilson
Re: Fw: Fw: Skjalm Hvide
Thank you Leo, this was exactly the kind of information I was looking
for. Rats about the mythical genealogy, but not surprising.
Christina
Leo van de Pas wrote:
for. Rats about the mythical genealogy, but not surprising.
Christina
Leo van de Pas wrote:
I asked someone for you, and here at the bottom is the reply
\