"Richard Plantagenet Stonemason"

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D. Spencer Hines

"Richard Plantagenet Stonemason"

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 17 feb 2007 22:20:23

King Richard III [1452-1485] and his wife Anne Beauchamp Neville [1456-1485]
allegedly had a son, Richard, born in 1469, who was a simple stonemason, and
who allegedly died in Eastwell, Kent in 1550 at age 81, or so.

However, Richard and Anne married in 1472, so "Richard Plantagenet" would
seem to have been a bastard by another mother -- if he existed.

Richard, stonemason, allegedly kept his head down and on his shoulders, no
small accomplishment in Tudor England as a Plantagenet of the wrong stripe.

According to some accounts Richard lived in relative obscurity and performed
a quite useful craft or trade.

Do we know any details of the subsequent History of his line? Perhaps King
Richard III has some competent masons as descendants to this day in Kent?

Others have previously posted on this man -- and may do so again.

D. Spencer Hines

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Deus Vult

D. Spencer Hines -- Lady Astor, nee Nancy Witcher Langhorne of Danville,
Virginia [1879-1964] -- First Woman to serve as an MP -- [Conservative,
Plymouth] -- a Teetotaller, Appeaser [Hostess for the "Cliveden Set"] and
Ardent Francophobe; at a dinner party with Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill
(1874-1965): "Winston, you're drunk!" WLSC: "Yes Madam, I am -- and you
are ugly. But tomorrow, I shall be sober --- and you will still be ugly."

But it was allegedly a different woman he said it to -- Bessie Braddock.

Or the entire riposte may be an Urban Legend -- but a Great Story.

DSH

Fortem Posce Animum

Martin

Re: "Richard Plantagenet Stonemason"

Legg inn av Martin » 18 feb 2007 02:30:49

"D. Spencer Hines" <poguemidden@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:flKBh.69$lB1.284@eagle.america.net...
King Richard III [1452-1485] and his wife Anne Beauchamp Neville [1456-1485]
allegedly had a son, Richard, born in 1469, who was a simple stonemason, and
who allegedly died in Eastwell, Kent in 1550 at age 81, or so.

However, Richard and Anne married in 1472, so "Richard Plantagenet" would
seem to have been a bastard by another mother -- if he existed.

Richard, stonemason, allegedly kept his head down and on his shoulders, no
small accomplishment in Tudor England as a Plantagenet of the wrong stripe.

According to some accounts Richard lived in relative obscurity and performed
a quite useful craft or trade.

Do we know any details of the subsequent History of his line? Perhaps King
Richard III has some competent masons as descendants to this day in Kent?

Others have previously posted on this man -- and may do so again.

Oh they will, of that you can be certain!

The Richard you speak of was not the son of Anne (nee Nevill), but the
illegitimate product of a liason with someone young Gloucester impregnated as a
teenager. He is rumoured to have had at least three illegitimate children before
he was married to Anne, which rather undermines the notion that he was 'an early
puritain' (as some claim). This was of course 'standard practice' amongst the
higher nobility in late C15 England.

There isn't really any reason to doubt this tale, and this 'Richard Jr' was
quite well recorded and did exist - look him up. Had he been the son of Anne, he
would have almost certainly kept very quiet about it, or been 'removed' with
maximum prejudice by one of the Tudors...

If you are seeking to bolster your claim to the throne of England, I'm afraid he
was not only illegitimate but had no children, so forget it. We would never
tolerate a 'King David' anyway...

On the level, I would also advise caution in seeking further enlightenment on
this matter, lest the ruffian in question had something to do with the KRS...
you may have been hoodwinked!

AVMartin

Ray O'Hara

Re: "Richard Plantagenet Stonemason"

Legg inn av Ray O'Hara » 18 feb 2007 03:15:30

"Martin" <martin.reboul@spamfuktiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:45d7aee1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
"D. Spencer Hines" <poguemidden@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:flKBh.69$lB1.284@eagle.america.net...
King Richard III [1452-1485] and his wife Anne Beauchamp Neville
[1456-1485]
allegedly had a son, Richard, born in 1469, who was a simple stonemason,
and
who allegedly died in Eastwell, Kent in 1550 at age 81, or so.

However, Richard and Anne married in 1472, so "Richard Plantagenet"
would
seem to have been a bastard by another mother -- if he existed.

Richard, stonemason, allegedly kept his head down and on his shoulders,
no
small accomplishment in Tudor England as a Plantagenet of the wrong
stripe.

According to some accounts Richard lived in relative obscurity and
performed
a quite useful craft or trade.

Do we know any details of the subsequent History of his line? Perhaps
King
Richard III has some competent masons as descendants to this day in
Kent?

Others have previously posted on this man -- and may do so again.

Oh they will, of that you can be certain!

The Richard you speak of was not the son of Anne (nee Nevill), but the
illegitimate product of a liason with someone young Gloucester impregnated
as a
teenager. He is rumoured to have had at least three illegitimate children
before
he was married to Anne, which rather undermines the notion that he was 'an
early
puritain' (as some claim). This was of course 'standard practice' amongst
the
higher nobility in late C15 England.

There isn't really any reason to doubt this tale, and this 'Richard Jr'
was
quite well recorded and did exist - look him up. Had he been the son of
Anne, he
would have almost certainly kept very quiet about it, or been 'removed'
with
maximum prejudice by one of the Tudors...

If you are seeking to bolster your claim to the throne of England, I'm
afraid he
was not only illegitimate but had no children, so forget it. We would
never
tolerate a 'King David' anyway...

On the level, I would also advise caution in seeking further enlightenment
on
this matter, lest the ruffian in question had something to do with the
KRS...
you may have been hoodwinked!

AVMartin




since when was being illegitimate a hinderence, william of normandy comes
to mind,

Renia

Re: "Richard Plantagenet Stonemason"

Legg inn av Renia » 18 feb 2007 03:18:04

Martin wrote:


If you are seeking to bolster your claim to the throne of England, I'm afraid he
was not only illegitimate but had no children, so forget it. We would never
tolerate a 'King David' anyway...


Well, that's true. The last King David had to call himself King Edward.

Martin

Re: "Richard Plantagenet Stonemason"

Legg inn av Martin » 18 feb 2007 03:35:23

"Ray O'Hara" <roh@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:5_CdnVWdK6NcK0rYnZ2dnUVZ_qqrnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Martin" <martin.reboul@spamfuktiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:45d7aee1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...

"D. Spencer Hines" <poguemidden@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:flKBh.69$lB1.284@eagle.america.net...
King Richard III [1452-1485] and his wife Anne Beauchamp Neville
[1456-1485]
allegedly had a son, Richard, born in 1469, who was a simple stonemason,
and
who allegedly died in Eastwell, Kent in 1550 at age 81, or so.

However, Richard and Anne married in 1472, so "Richard Plantagenet"
would
seem to have been a bastard by another mother -- if he existed.

Richard, stonemason, allegedly kept his head down and on his shoulders,
no
small accomplishment in Tudor England as a Plantagenet of the wrong
stripe.

According to some accounts Richard lived in relative obscurity and
performed
a quite useful craft or trade.

Do we know any details of the subsequent History of his line? Perhaps
King
Richard III has some competent masons as descendants to this day in
Kent?

Others have previously posted on this man -- and may do so again.

Oh they will, of that you can be certain!

The Richard you speak of was not the son of Anne (nee Nevill), but the
illegitimate product of a liason with someone young Gloucester impregnated
as a
teenager. He is rumoured to have had at least three illegitimate children
before
he was married to Anne, which rather undermines the notion that he was 'an
early
puritain' (as some claim). This was of course 'standard practice' amongst
the
higher nobility in late C15 England.

There isn't really any reason to doubt this tale, and this 'Richard Jr'
was
quite well recorded and did exist - look him up. Had he been the son of
Anne, he
would have almost certainly kept very quiet about it, or been 'removed'
with
maximum prejudice by one of the Tudors...

If you are seeking to bolster your claim to the throne of England, I'm
afraid he
was not only illegitimate but had no children, so forget it. We would
never
tolerate a 'King David' anyway...

On the level, I would also advise caution in seeking further enlightenment
on
this matter, lest the ruffian in question had something to do with the
KRS...
you may have been hoodwinked!

AVMartin




since when was being illegitimate a hinderence, william of normandy comes
to mind,

No hindrance whatsoever, all you need is a big enough army (foreign mercenaries
will do if you have the cash). Bastards on the throne have never worried the
English much - whether illegitimate or not. Wankers like DSH would never do
however, you have to draw the line somewhere...

kerryscott5@yahoo.com

Re: "Richard Plantagenet Stonemason"

Legg inn av kerryscott5@yahoo.com » 26 feb 2007 01:24:43

We would never tolerate a 'King David' anyway...

But we did tolerate Kings Egbert, Aethelbald, Edwy, Edred, AEthelred,
Cnut, Hardicnut, and Rufus.

Ray O'Hara

Re: "Richard Plantagenet Stonemason"

Legg inn av Ray O'Hara » 26 feb 2007 05:43:19

<kerryscott5@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1172449483.264697.264710@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
We would never tolerate a 'King David' anyway...

But we did tolerate Kings Egbert, Aethelbald, Edwy, Edred, AEthelred,
Cnut, Hardicnut, and Rufus.


Ethelread the Unready, Aethelstan the Glorious


funny how Harold and Alfred made it through the years but when was the last
tie anybody named a kid Aethelstan or Alaric.

Asterix the Gaul was good stuff but it never caught on over here because
Americans don't get the pun.

allan connochie

Re: "Richard Plantagenet Stonemason"

Legg inn av allan connochie » 26 feb 2007 08:05:27

"Renia" <nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:wHOBh.11637$tz6.2787@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
Martin wrote:



If you are seeking to bolster your claim to the throne of England, I'm
afraid he
was not only illegitimate but had no children, so forget it. We would
never
tolerate a 'King David' anyway...


Well, that's true. The last King David had to call himself King Edward.

And he would maybe have been David III which would have caused as big an
uproar amongst our southern brethern than the uproar when our present queen
called herself Elizabeth II

Allan

Larry Swain

Re: "Richard Plantagenet Stonemason"

Legg inn av Larry Swain » 26 feb 2007 13:51:21

Ray O'Hara wrote:
kerryscott5@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1172449483.264697.264710@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...

We would never tolerate a 'King David' anyway...

But we did tolerate Kings Egbert, Aethelbald, Edwy, Edred, AEthelred,
Cnut, Hardicnut, and Rufus.



Ethelread the Unready, Aethelstan the Glorious


funny how Harold and Alfred made it through the years but when was the last
tie anybody named a kid Aethelstan or Alaric.

I know a couple of Alarics. Aethelstan would be shortened to Ethelstan,
and so to "Stan" since Ethel- has become Ethel, a woman's name.

Asterix the Gaul was good stuff but it never caught on over here because
Americans don't get the pun.

Some of us do.

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