Bulkley Ancestors in Normany 1050-1250

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paul bulkley

Bulkley Ancestors in Normany 1050-1250

Legg inn av paul bulkley » 11 feb 2007 22:32:14

It is suspected that the ancestors of the
London/Lancashire Bulkleys came from Normandy. The
spelling of their name possibly Bucaille, Bukeler,
Bucler, Bulceleia. Quite possibly individuals were
employed by the Lacy (Lascy) family both in Normandy
and England. Can anyone recommend sources of
information.

That was the wording of my recent request.

Thankyou for the many responses which unfortunately do
not address my request. Do you people have trouble
reading?

There is a littany of negative comments, the generous
offer of more! And the usual banal remarks of the
lunatic fringe.

Others have attached importance to the Cheshire
Bulkley family name and that of the similar named
village. None of that has any connection to my
request.

Then the librarian who also cannot read, who attaches
importance to the Cheshire meaning of the family name,
rejects firmly the possibility of a Norman connection
without offering a single cent of evidence to support
his contention. He than continues to advise all and
sundry that he is connected to an unfortunate line of
the Cheshire family. He has my deepest sympathy, but
what all this has to do with my request is beyond my
comprehension.

Finally a profound reminder that "Theory" can be upset
by one tiny fact. Fantastic. Facts not substantiated
are O.K. - theory and serious research deplored. Truly
shades of George W.Bush, the Iraq War, Global Warming,
and sadly genealogical logic.

Anyhow to the root of the matter. Is anyone capable of
offering construction advise in connection with my
request?

Sincerely Yours,

Paul Bulkley



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Peter Stewart

Re: Bulkley Ancestors in Normany 1050-1250

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 11 feb 2007 23:03:02

"paul bulkley" <designeconomic@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.3177.1171227568.30800.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...

<chomp>

Anyhow to the root of the matter. Is anyone capable of
offering construction advise in connection with my
request?

Yes - it is a house built on sand and in need of reconstruction on solid
ground.

Peter Stewart

taf

Re: Bulkley Ancestors in Normany 1050-1250

Legg inn av taf » 12 feb 2007 03:41:52

On Feb 11, 12:32 pm, paul bulkley <designecono...@yahoo.com> wrote:
It is suspected that the ancestors of the
London/Lancashire Bulkleys came from Normandy. The
spelling of their name possibly Bucaille, Bukeler,
Bucler, Bulceleia. Quite possibly individuals were
employed by the Lacy (Lascy) family both in Normandy
and England. Can anyone recommend sources of
information.

That was the wording of my recent request.

Yes, and it is no wonder you got the responses you did. You start
with a statement that applies to most of the gentry of the time. Fair
enough. Then you try to connect with a range of "spellings" which
are, in fact, not spellings at all, but distinct families to which a
connection is sought. You conclude the list with the 12th century
name of a Cheshire town, from which the family is thought, with near-
universal agreement among those familiar with Anglo-Norman surnames,
to derive but in subsequent posts you try to extract it from context
and argue the opposite. Finally, you posit a connection to a family
that, among other things, were Constables of Chester. Once the self-
evident, extraneous, misleading and unsupported are taken into (or out
of) account, your own post leads directly to all those responses you
so decry. That will happen.

Thankyou for the many responses which unfortunately do
not address my request.

Sort of like complaining that when you ask for sources that describe
the blue color of the banana the responses might not conform to the
question, but that is the fault of the question, not the responses.

Do you people have trouble reading?

Do you find this approach productive?

There is a littany of negative comments, the generous
offer of more!

They were only negative to the extent that they failed to conform to
the misconceptions inherent to the form the question took.

And the usual banal remarks of the
lunatic fringe.

Ah yes, the ad hominem. It couldn't have been too long in coming, and
here it is.

Others have attached importance to the Cheshire
Bulkley family name and that of the similar named
village. None of that has any connection to my
request.

To paraphrase, 'do you have trouble reading?' You asked about a
family for whom "The spelling of their name possibly . . .
Bulceleia." Bulceleia is the name which appears in the Bunbury,
Cheshire charter. Thus the Cheshire town and family have every
connection to your request.

Then the librarian who also cannot read, who attaches
importance to the Cheshire meaning of the family name,
rejects firmly the possibility of a Norman connection
without offering a single cent of evidence to support
his contention.

You are severely misrepresenting him. That the surname derived from
the Cheshire town in no way contradicts a Norman connection for the
family. Further, you are reversing the burden of proof, holding him
to a standard that in fact should fall upon you to meet. It is not
his responsibility to show that they are not Norman (after all, no one
would have prepared a document stating that the family was _not_ of a
particular origin) - it is your responsibility to find the slightest
shred of evidence that they were before demanding disproof from
others.

He than continues to advise all and
sundry that he is connected to an unfortunate line of
the Cheshire family. He has my deepest sympathy, but
what all this has to do with my request is beyond my
comprehension.

The entirety of a response to a discussion group need not address the
question that inspired it, or there would be little discussion, simply
question and answer.

Finally a profound reminder that "Theory" can be upset
by one tiny fact. Fantastic.

You act like this standard comes as a surprise to you, or worse, that
it should be otherwise.

Facts not substantiated
are O.K. - theory and serious research deplored.

Umm. You have a non-sequitur there. There is no such thing as an
unsubstantiated fact. As to theory, if it runs counter to the
evidence you yourself put forward, such as the Bunbury charter, then
it is to be deplored. Likewise, if it is a house of cards held
together by ad hoc and ad hominem, then it is likewise to be
deplored. Serious research is not to be deplored, and it may prove
more productive than the current approach.

Anyhow to the root of the matter. Is anyone capable of
offering construction advise in connection with my
request?

Yes. Start with what you know and trace back. Evaluate your
hypotheses based on evidence, not personal preference. Don't look a
gift horse . . . . .

taf

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Bulkley Ancestors In Normandy 1050-1250

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 12 feb 2007 05:48:43

You really want that NORMAN CONNECTION, don't you?

You can't even SPELL -- NORMANDY -- I corrected your Subject Line, wherein
you had "Normany". [sic]

Amusingly Illiterate...

You sound like some rabid 19th Century social-climber who thinks a NORMAN
Genealogical Connection is the ticket to success and being accepted into
some sort of Social Elite.

Hilarious!

Wake Up!

YOU must PROVE the alleged NORMAN Connection.

You must trace BACK from yourself, step by step -- generation by generation
as far as you can go.

Instead, you try to pick a Family Name, which is identical/similar to yours
and tell us that it is a NORMAN name, rather than an ENGLISH, Anglo-Saxon
name -- traceable to the Latin as well.

Continuing your fantasies, you try to tell us, in the face of all evidence
to the contrary, which you won't listen to, because it is allegedly not
responsive to your question, that your ancestors come from Normandy -- so
you can eventually make pretense that one of your ancestors was PROBABLY a
"Companion of The Conqueror", William The Conqueror, ["or came over shortly
thereafter"] say within two hundred years or so <G>, although you are unable
to PROVE it.

The Scots generally are not too fond of William The Conqueror -- although
there are exceptions. However they are PARTICULARLY vitriolic about his 4th
Great-Grandson, Edward I [b. 1239 - d. 1307], King of England and _Malleus
Scotorum _.

You WHINE about the Excellent Genealogical Advice you have been given, as
follows:

...responses which unfortunately do not address my request.
Do you people have trouble reading? -- Paul Bulkley

Repeatedly, you ignore the evidence that your family name, Bulkley [with
various spellings] is a TOPONYM that correlates to the name of a CHESHIRE
VILLAGE.

FOOLISH in the Extreme!

You would have been ripe pickings for some charlatanistic, fraudulent
19th-century genealogical con-man.

But I cannot deny that it is FUN to WATCH you, while you make an even BIGGER
FOOL of yourself, as each day passes, and dig a deeper hole for yourself.

When you find yourself in a deep, dark, dank, foetid, foul-smelling hole of
your own making...

Stop Digging!

Further, it is NOT up to "the librarian" -- who is a very talented man and a
Quite Competent Genealogist -- to DISPROVE a NORMAN connection for you.

SO, get your head screwed on right and:

Read, Mark, Learn And Inwardly Digest what you have been TOLD by
Experienced, Competent, Well-Educated Genealogists here.

The Burden of Proof for a NORMAN GENEALOGICAL DESCENT, which is indeed a
laughable pursuit in your case, is on YOU -- NOT on "the librarian" -- or
anyone else here.

So, get cracking on working BACKWARDS from yourself, proving each
Genealogical Link as you GO -- NOT trying to "hook up" with some alleged
NORMAN ANCESTOR, whom you think is YOURS -- and STOP WHINING & KVETCHING.

FARBLONDJET!

John 5:14

Vide infra.

'Nuff Said.

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Deus Vult

Exitus Acta Probat

"paul bulkley" <designeconomic@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.3177.1171227568.30800.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...

Generous Snipping Of Arrant, Mindless & Superfluous Balderdash.

Thankyou [sic] for the many responses which unfortunately do
not address my request. Do you people have trouble
reading?

There is a littany [sic] of negative comments, the generous
offer of more! And the usual banal remarks of the
lunatic fringe.

Others have attached importance to the Cheshire
Bulkley family name and that of the similar [sic] named
village. None of that has any connection to my
request.

Then the librarian who also cannot read, who attaches
importance to the Cheshire meaning of the family name,
rejects firmly the possibility of a Norman connection
without offering a single cent of evidence to support
his contention.

Anyhow to the root of the matter. Is anyone capable of
offering construction [sic] advise [sic] in connection with my
request?

Sincerely Yours,

Paul Bulkley

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Bulkley Ancestors In Normandy 1050-1250

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 12 feb 2007 06:08:34

BINGO!

Succinct & To The Point...

Game Over.

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

"Peter Stewart" <p_m_stewart@msn.com> wrote in message
news:qoMzh.6296$sd2.4558@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
"paul bulkley" <designeconomic@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.3177.1171227568.30800.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...

chomp

Anyhow to the root of the matter. Is anyone capable of
offering construction [sic] advise [sic] in connection with my
request?

Yes - it is a house built on sand and in need of reconstruction on solid
ground.

Peter Stewart

John Brandon

Re: Bulkley Ancestors In Normandy 1050-1250

Legg inn av John Brandon » 12 feb 2007 18:20:20

D. Spencer,

It's nice to have you back, moralizing and quoting Bible verses (of
all things), "nuff-saiding," "deus vulting," "read-mark-and-inwardly
digesting," ... but people will still think of your genealogical
knowledge as cartoonish and sketchy at best.

You might want to spare yourself (and us) the trouble and aggravation
and go back into hibernation. We had a great year without you!



You really want that NORMAN CONNECTION, don't you?

You can't even SPELL -- NORMANDY -- I corrected your Subject Line, wherein
you had "Normany". [sic]

Amusingly Illiterate...

You sound like some rabid 19th Century social-climber who thinks a NORMAN
Genealogical Connection is the ticket to success and being accepted into
some sort of Social Elite.

Hilarious!

Wake Up!

YOU must PROVE the alleged NORMAN Connection.

You must trace BACK from yourself, step by step -- generation by generation
as far as you can go.

Instead, you try to pick a Family Name, which is identical/similar to yours
and tell us that it is a NORMAN name, rather than an ENGLISH, Anglo-Saxon
name -- traceable to the Latin as well.

Continuing your fantasies, you try to tell us, in the face of all evidence
to the contrary, which you won't listen to, because it is allegedly not
responsive to your question, that your ancestors come from Normandy -- so
you can eventually make pretense that one of your ancestors was PROBABLY a
"Companion of The Conqueror", William The Conqueror, ["or came over shortly
thereafter"] say within two hundred years or so <G>, although you are unable
to PROVE it.

The Scots generally are not too fond of William The Conqueror -- although
there are exceptions. However they are PARTICULARLY vitriolic about his 4th
Great-Grandson, Edward I [b. 1239 - d. 1307], King of England and _Malleus
Scotorum _.

You WHINE about the Excellent Genealogical Advice you have been given, as
follows:

...responses which unfortunately do not address my request.
Do you people have trouble reading? -- Paul Bulkley

Repeatedly, you ignore the evidence that your family name, Bulkley [with
various spellings] is a TOPONYM that correlates to the name of a CHESHIRE
VILLAGE.

FOOLISH in the Extreme!

You would have been ripe pickings for some charlatanistic, fraudulent
19th-century genealogical con-man.

But I cannot deny that it is FUN to WATCH you, while you make an even BIGGER
FOOL of yourself, as each day passes, and dig a deeper hole for yourself.

When you find yourself in a deep, dark, dank, foetid, foul-smelling hole of
your own making...

Stop Digging!

Further, it is NOT up to "the librarian" -- who is a very talented man and a
Quite Competent Genealogist -- to DISPROVE a NORMAN connection for you.

SO, get your head screwed on right and:

Read, Mark, Learn And Inwardly Digest what you have been TOLD by
Experienced, Competent, Well-Educated Genealogists here.

The Burden of Proof for a NORMAN GENEALOGICAL DESCENT, which is indeed a
laughable pursuit in your case, is on YOU -- NOT on "the librarian" -- or
anyone else here.

So, get cracking on working BACKWARDS from yourself, proving each
Genealogical Link as you GO -- NOT trying to "hook up" with some alleged
NORMAN ANCESTOR, whom you think is YOURS -- and STOP WHINING & KVETCHING.

FARBLONDJET!

John 5:14

Vide infra.

'Nuff Said.

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Deus Vult

Exitus Acta Probat

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