Misunderstood terminology

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Leo van de Pas

Misunderstood terminology

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 10 feb 2007 00:50:56

Not so long ago in Britain there was a court case involving an aristocratic Lady. She was written up and reference was made to the file (made by me for the website of Brigitte Gastel Lloyd) of descendants of Mary Tudor, she was listed as a 15th generation descendant. However several readers have "since claimed that she could not be related to Mary Tudor". Confusion seems to have made people think it was Queen Mary Tudor, even though the file has nor reference to Queen Mary Tudor or her husband King Philipp of Spain. This lady was defintely a descendant of an aunt of Queen Mary Tudor even though Queen Mary Tudor was not mentioned.

Today Steven Perkins made us aware of an article from the BBC news. "Experts find alternative heirs". In this article one thing I found fascinating, until I checked one aspect.

"Mr. Golledge traced his family back to Alfred the Great through the "Stemmata Chicheleana" historical documents."

This sounds fair enough, but then :

"Published in 1765, they record all the _descendants_ of Archbishop Henry Chichele, the founder of All Souls College, Oxford - who is related to Mr. Golledge."

At least they said Mr. Golledge was related, not descended from. For people, including myself, who have little detailed knowledge of many aspects of English history, would conclude for Henry Chichele to have had descendants (at least legitimate ones) would have lived after, roughly, 1550-----but what about the founding of All Souls College, Oxford?

The Dictionary of National Biography tells he was born about 1362 and died 12 April 1443. In other words he was an Archbishop of the Roman variety which does not allow married priests. Reading the entry in DNB it does not seem likely that he had any children, legitimate or illegitimate. Did this BBC news item perhaps mean that the "Stemmata Chicheleana" recorded the descendants of the Archbishop's brothers and sisters? Has anyone seen this?

A descendants list from about 1400 to 1765 is pretty amazing and would help many people but does this lead to a descent from Alfred the Great through the "Stemmata Chicheleana" for Mr. Golledge?

If we take this article seriously, ( and as it was vetted by "English Heritage" should we?) the implication is that a line to Alfred the Great should go via the father or mother of Archbishop Henry Chichele. According to DNB his father, on doubtful authority was a broker or a draper, and his mother Agnes Pyncheon was a daughter of William Pyncheon who was armigerous.............that sounds good.
In my system, which does not say anything, there are no Pyncheons but CP does mention Pincheons. I think this could be the same family.

Does anyone have more information which could lead to Alfred the Great, but as importantly has anyone access to "Stemmata Chicheleana"?

With best wishes
Leo van de Pas,
Canberra, Australia

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