Did Moriarty consult the Giffard pedigree in the 1566 Oxford

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John Brandon

Did Moriarty consult the Giffard pedigree in the 1566 Oxford

Legg inn av John Brandon » 09 feb 2007 20:51:27

While I don't currently have access to the NEHGS website (including
the back issues of _The Register_), I believe the following line of
descent taken from an old soc.gen.medieval posting agrees fairly well
with G.A. Moriarty's article(s) on the Giffard line behind William
Sargent:

1. LUCY DE MORTEYN, daughter of Sir John, married Sir John Giffard
(the name being later changed to Gifford). He was of Twyford, Co.
Bucks, born 1301, died 1368. He married 2d, after 8 March 1361,
Alice----. Reference: vols. 75 and 79, "The New England Register."

2. SIR THOMAS GIFFARD, Knight, born about 1345, died 1394; married
about 1361, Elizabeth de Missenden, who died 1367. He married 2d,
Margery----; 3d Sybil----.

3. ROGER GIFFARD, son of Sir Thomas, born about 1367, died 14th April
1409; married (1) Joan de Bereford, who died not later than 1399;
married (2) Elizabeth----; (3) Isabel Stratele.

4. THOMAS GIFFARD, born 1408, at Fri(n)gford, co. oxford, died 29 May
1469; married Eleanor Vaux, daighter of William Vaux, Esq.

5. JOHN GIFFORD, born about 1431, died before 23 September 1506;
married (1) Alice; married (2) Agnes Winslowe, daughter of Thomas
Winslowe, of Bigbee, co. Oxford.

The Oxford Visitation pedigree claims that the wife of Sir Thomas
Giffard (#2) above was "Sibilla dna. de Newton Juell in Com. Oxford,"
and that Sibilla was the only wife as well as mother of the heir,
Roger. The account given just above gives Sir Thomas three wives:
"married [1st] about 1361, Elizabeth de Missenden, who died 1367. He
married 2d, Margery----; 3d Sybil----."

See
http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC0 ... 6-PA177,M1

Did Moriarty in his article(s) specifically refute the idea that
Sybil, lady of Newton Juell, was the ancestress of the later
Giffards? What family would Sybil have belonged to?

There are a few other differences between the two pedigrees. As these
Giffards were mainly in Bucks. and Northamptonshire, Moriarty may not
have thought of looking at the Oxfordshire Visitation.

John Brandon

Re: Did Moriarty consult the Giffard pedigree in the 1566 Ox

Legg inn av John Brandon » 09 feb 2007 21:07:17

Did Moriarty in his article(s) specifically refute the idea that
Sybil, lady of Newton Juell, was the ancestress of the later
Giffards? What family would Sybil have belonged to?

"Newton Juell" may be a mistake for "Newton Purcell," which is near
Fringford, co. Oxford.

John Brandon

Re: Did Moriarty consult the Giffard pedigree in the 1566 Ox

Legg inn av John Brandon » 09 feb 2007 22:17:35

The statement in the Oxfordshire Visitation that Roger Gifford married
a daughter of Seton, combined with the evidence that Sir John de
Seyton was involved in land dealings with Roger Gifford and his wife
Elizabeth ...

http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC0 ... 2-PA234,M1

seems to indicate that Roger Gifford's second wife Elizabeth was
indeed a daughter of John de Seyton. Note that Roger and Elizabeth
had a daughter Catherine. I believe this Catherine was an ancestress
of Gov. Thomas Dudley through the Billing, Lovett, and Thorne alias
Dorne families.

John Brandon

Re: Did Moriarty consult the Giffard pedigree in the 1566 Ox

Legg inn av John Brandon » 09 feb 2007 22:31:33

seems to indicate that Roger Gifford's second wife Elizabeth was
indeed a daughter of John de Seyton. Note that Roger and Elizabeth
had a daughter Catherine. I believe this Catherine was an ancestress
of Gov. Thomas Dudley through the Billing, Lovett, and Thorne alias
Dorne families.

Or, rather, there was no Lovett blood, the line going directly from
Billing to Thorne als. Dorne ...

http://books.google.com/books?vid=0HrP2 ... rd+billing

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