"Plantagenet." This matter comes up regularly in a number of pogueish
newsgroups.
We usually hit it a glancing blow, questions are asked --- some tentative,
partial, answers are given. Some stock quotations from the _Complete
Peerage_ are trotted out. Misimpressions are created and locked in and we
move on. Typical newsgroup behaviour. Similar to a singles bar, with hard
rock drowning out any serious conversations ---- as the body exchange rolls
on. Vide the Saga of Hippo-Troll and "La Nilita" -- far more interesting
than the passion of _Tristan And Isolde.
Gentle Readers and Serious Scholars deserve a more complete explanation.
So, in the spirit of Henry V [1387-1422] at Harfleur, "Once more unto the
breach, dear friends, once more; Or close up the wall with our English
dead!" [Henry V, III, i, 1-2.] I humbly provide the following explanation
of the History of 'Plantagenet' as a sobriquet transformed into a surrogate
surname. [N.B. Henry V is the 7th great-grandson of Geoffroi V 'le Bel',
comte d'Anjou et Maine.]
Geoffrey V 'The Fair' [1113-1151] Count of Anjou and Maine was Duke of
Normandy 1144-1150. Plantagenet, used as a surname, is commonly applied to
members of the Royal House of England between 1154 and 1485. Members of
that house were descended from the union between Geoffrey, Count of Anjou
and Maine, and The Empress Matilda, [1102-1167] daughter of the English
King, Henry I 'Beauclerc' [1068-1135] ---- he who supposedly died from a
"surfeit of lampreys" ---- and his first wife, Matilda of Scotland.
Although the practice is well-established, it has little historical
justification. The name Plantagenet seems to have originated as a sobriquet
or nickname for Count Geoffrey. It has variously been explained as
referring to his practice of wearing a sprig or branch of yellow broom
(Latin: [planta] genista; Old French: plante genêt in his helm, or more
probably to his habit of planting brooms to improve his hunting cover.
[N.B. Birds will nest under the small broom bushes or shrubs and hunters may
hide behind them.] Both explanations may well be true ---- as they are by
no means mutually exclusive.
"Plantagenet" was not, by any means, a hereditary surname and Geoffrey's
progeny remained without one for more than 300 years, although surnames
became common outside the Royal Family.
Henry II 'Curtmantle' FitzEmpress [1133-1189] [son of Geoffrey and Matilda
The Empress] and his own sons, Richard I and John I, are now generally
styled by historians as the Angevin (from Anjou) kings. For want of a
better name, their successors, notably Henry III, Edward I, Edward II,
Edward III, and Richard II are still described as Plantagenets.
Henry IV, Henry V and Henry VI may properly be called the House of
Lancaster; while Edward IV, Edward V and Richard III constitute the monarchs
of the House of York. Edward V, of course, is a quite special case who
hardly "reigned" as king and reportedly died in the Tower of London at 12,
one of the two 'Princes in the Tower.'
The first official use of the surname Plantagenet by any descendant of Count
Geoffrey was in 1460, when Richard, 3rd Duke of York [1411-1460], claimed
the throne in the name of "Richard Plantaginet." [N.B. Yes, there was no
standard spelling of English in 1460.]
Richard, 3rd Duke of York, was Protector of England, Earl of March and
Ulster, and Earl of Cambridge. His attempts to gain power for his House of
York, coupled with many other personal, dynastic and historical factors,
precipitated the Wars of the Roses (1455-1485). The House of York was later
identified with the White Rose and the House of Lancaster with the Red Rose.
As noted above, Richard, 3rd Duke of York, was the first to adopt the
surname of Plantagenet.
The legitimate male issue, in the agnatic line, of Count Geoffrey
'Plantagenet' and Matilda The Empress became extinct with the death, in
1499, of Edward, [1475-1499] 18th Earl of Warwick, grandson of Richard, 3rd
Duke of York.
He was the son of George [1449-1478], Duke of Clarence, who allegedly met
his end in the Tower of London as did his son, but George was supposedly
drowned in the famous butt of Malmsey. The Madeira Wine, "Duke of Clarence"
is named after this event. It is quite palatable, with good body and a bit
of a nose.
Henry VII resented Edward, 18th Earl of Warwick's proximity to the throne
and he was executed at the Tower of London on 28 Nov 1499. Edward was
imprisoned for many years and not allowed to have a tutor, according to some
accounts. Therefore, Henry VII allegedly kept him ignorant and
uneducated -- by design. Clever fellow -- and Machiavellian Prince
indeed -- was that rogue Henry Tudor.
Vide the second edition of George Edward Cokayne's [1825-1911] _The Complete
Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United Kingdom,
Extant, Extinct or Dormant_; Microprint Edition (half-size in 6 volumes,
condensed from 13); 26 cm; LOC CS421 .C7 1982; Dewey # 929.7/2 19; ISBN
(set) 0904387828; Nobility -- British Isles [First Edition: (1887-1898);
Second Edition (1910-1959). New York, Saint Martin's Press, 1984,
[Reprinted from the British (Alan Sutton Publishing, Ltd.) version] 13
volumes in 6; also, previously, Gloucester: A. Sutton, 1982 (also 13 v. in
6; 26 cm)
[The Sutton version is a reprint of the Second Edition], Volume I
(originally published in 1910), p. 183, note (c):
"It is much to be wished that the surname "Plantagenet," which, since the
time of Charles II, has been freely given to all the descendants of Geoffrey
of Anjou, had some historical basis which would justify its use, for it
forms a most convenient method of referring to the Edwardian kings and their
numerous descendants. The fact is, however, as has been pointed out by Sir
James Ramsay and other writers of our day, that the name, although a
personal emblem [N. B. Latin *planta genista* = broom --- DSH] of the
aforesaid Geoffrey, was never borne by any of his descendants before Richard
Plantagenet, Duke of York (father of Edward IV), [N.B. and also of Richard
III --- DSH] who assumed it, apparently about 1448. V.G."
"V.G." is Vicary Gibbs, one of the Editors of the Second Edition of the
Complete Peerage.
This is obviously a quite complex and multi-faceted account ---- subject to
differing interpretations and shadings. Corrections, additions and
clarifications are most welcome and should be posted to the newsgroup
soc.history.medieval.
Copyright © 2000-2007 by D. Spencer Hines, All Rights Reserved
"The final happiness of man consists in the contemplation of truth.... This
is sought for its own sake, and is directed to no other end beyond itself."
Saint Thomas Aquinas, [1224/5-1274] "Summa Contra Gentiles" [c.1258-1264]
Illegitimis Non Carborundum.
"For by diligent perusing the actes of great men, by considering all the
circumstances of them, by composing Counseiles and Meanes with events, a man
may seem to have lived in all ages, to have been present at all enterprises,
to be more strongly confirmed in Judgement, to have attained a greater
experience than the longest life can possibly afford."
John Hayward, __The Lives of the III Norman Kings of England, William the
First, William the Second and Henry I__, London, 1612, Preface
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
Fortem Posce Animum
Deus Vult
Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi Asinum
Pax Vobiscum
Sholem Aleichem
Plantagenet Ancestry
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Holy Pasha
Re: Plantagenet Ancestry
Interesting .
is Genet = Geneste in French ?
On Feb 9, 1:10 am, "D. Spencer Hines" <poguemid...@hotmail.com> wrote:
is Genet = Geneste in French ?
On Feb 9, 1:10 am, "D. Spencer Hines" <poguemid...@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Plantagenet." This matter comes up regularly in a number of pogueish
newsgroups.
We usually hit it a glancing blow, questions are asked --- some tentative,
partial, answers are given. Some stock quotations from the _Complete
Peerage_ are trotted out. Misimpressions are created and locked in and we
move on. Typical newsgroup behaviour. Similar to a singles bar, with hard
rock drowning out any serious conversations ---- as the body exchange rolls
on. Vide the Saga of Hippo-Troll and "La Nilita" -- far more interesting
than the passion of _Tristan And Isolde.
Gentle Readers and Serious Scholars deserve a more complete explanation.
So, in the spirit of Henry V [1387-1422] at Harfleur, "Once more unto the
breach, dear friends, once more; Or close up the wall with our English
dead!" [Henry V, III, i, 1-2.] I humbly provide the following explanation
of the History of 'Plantagenet' as a sobriquet transformed into a surrogate
surname. [N.B. Henry V is the 7th great-grandson of Geoffroi V 'le Bel',
comte d'Anjou et Maine.]
Geoffrey V 'The Fair' [1113-1151] Count of Anjou and Maine was Duke of
Normandy 1144-1150. Plantagenet, used as a surname, is commonly applied to
members of the Royal House of England between 1154 and 1485. Members of
that house were descended from the union between Geoffrey, Count of Anjou
and Maine, and The Empress Matilda, [1102-1167] daughter of the English
King, Henry I 'Beauclerc' [1068-1135] ---- he who supposedly died from a
"surfeit of lampreys" ---- and his first wife, Matilda of Scotland.
Although the practice is well-established, it has little historical
justification. The name Plantagenet seems to have originated as a sobriquet
or nickname for Count Geoffrey. It has variously been explained as
referring to his practice of wearing a sprig or branch of yellow broom
(Latin: [planta] genista; Old French: plante genêt in his helm, or more
probably to his habit of planting brooms to improve his hunting cover.
[N.B. Birds will nest under the small broom bushes or shrubs and hunters may
hide behind them.] Both explanations may well be true ---- as they are by
no means mutually exclusive.
"Plantagenet" was not, by any means, a hereditary surname and Geoffrey's
progeny remained without one for more than 300 years, although surnames
became common outside the Royal Family.
Henry II 'Curtmantle' FitzEmpress [1133-1189] [son of Geoffrey and Matilda
The Empress] and his own sons, Richard I and John I, are now generally
styled by historians as the Angevin (from Anjou) kings. For want of a
better name, their successors, notably Henry III, Edward I, Edward II,
Edward III, and Richard II are still described as Plantagenets.
Henry IV, Henry V and Henry VI may properly be called the House of
Lancaster; while Edward IV, Edward V and Richard III constitute the monarchs
of the House of York. Edward V, of course, is a quite special case who
hardly "reigned" as king and reportedly died in the Tower of London at 12,
one of the two 'Princes in the Tower.'
The first official use of the surname Plantagenet by any descendant of Count
Geoffrey was in 1460, when Richard, 3rd Duke of York [1411-1460], claimed
the throne in the name of "Richard Plantaginet." [N.B. Yes, there was no
standard spelling of English in 1460.]
Richard, 3rd Duke of York, was Protector of England, Earl of March and
Ulster, and Earl of Cambridge. His attempts to gain power for his House of
York, coupled with many other personal, dynastic and historical factors,
precipitated the Wars of the Roses (1455-1485). The House of York was later
identified with the White Rose and the House of Lancaster with the Red Rose.
As noted above, Richard, 3rd Duke of York, was the first to adopt the
surname of Plantagenet.
The legitimate male issue, in the agnatic line, of Count Geoffrey
'Plantagenet' and Matilda The Empress became extinct with the death, in
1499, of Edward, [1475-1499] 18th Earl of Warwick, grandson of Richard, 3rd
Duke of York.
He was the son of George [1449-1478], Duke of Clarence, who allegedly met
his end in the Tower of London as did his son, but George was supposedly
drowned in the famous butt of Malmsey. The Madeira Wine, "Duke of Clarence"
is named after this event. It is quite palatable, with good body and a bit
of a nose.
Henry VII resented Edward, 18th Earl of Warwick's proximity to the throne
and he was executed at the Tower of London on 28 Nov 1499. Edward was
imprisoned for many years and not allowed to have a tutor, according to some
accounts. Therefore, Henry VII allegedly kept him ignorant and
uneducated -- by design. Clever fellow -- and Machiavellian Prince
indeed -- was that rogue Henry Tudor.
Vide the second edition of George Edward Cokayne's [1825-1911] _The Complete
Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United Kingdom,
Extant, Extinct or Dormant_; Microprint Edition (half-size in 6 volumes,
condensed from 13); 26 cm; LOC CS421 .C7 1982; Dewey # 929.7/2 19; ISBN
(set) 0904387828; Nobility -- British Isles [First Edition: (1887-1898);
Second Edition (1910-1959). New York, Saint Martin's Press, 1984,
[Reprinted from the British (Alan Sutton Publishing, Ltd.) version] 13
volumes in 6; also, previously, Gloucester: A. Sutton, 1982 (also 13 v. in
6; 26 cm)
[The Sutton version is a reprint of the Second Edition], Volume I
(originally published in 1910), p. 183, note (c):
"It is much to be wished that the surname "Plantagenet," which, since the
time of Charles II, has been freely given to all the descendants of Geoffrey
of Anjou, had some historical basis which would justify its use, for it
forms a most convenient method of referring to the Edwardian kings and their
numerous descendants. The fact is, however, as has been pointed out by Sir
James Ramsay and other writers of our day, that the name, although a
personal emblem [N. B. Latin *planta genista* = broom --- DSH] of the
aforesaid Geoffrey, was never borne by any of his descendants before Richard
Plantagenet, Duke of York (father of Edward IV), [N.B. and also of Richard
III --- DSH] who assumed it, apparently about 1448. V.G."
"V.G." is Vicary Gibbs, one of the Editors of the Second Edition of the
Complete Peerage.
This is obviously a quite complex and multi-faceted account ---- subject to
differing interpretations and shadings. Corrections, additions and
clarifications are most welcome and should be posted to the newsgroup
soc.history.medieval.
Copyright © 2000-2007 by D. Spencer Hines, All Rights Reserved
"The final happiness of man consists in the contemplation of truth.... This
is sought for its own sake, and is directed to no other end beyond itself.."
Saint Thomas Aquinas, [1224/5-1274] "Summa Contra Gentiles" [c.1258-1264]
Illegitimis Non Carborundum.
"For by diligent perusing the actes of great men, by considering all the
circumstances of them, by composing Counseiles and Meanes with events, a man
may seem to have lived in all ages, to have been present at all enterprises,
to be more strongly confirmed in Judgement, to have attained a greater
experience than the longest life can possibly afford."
John Hayward, __The Lives of the III Norman Kings of England, William the
First, William the Second and Henry I__, London, 1612, Preface
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
Fortem Posce Animum
Deus Vult
Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi Asinum
Pax Vobiscum
Sholem Aleichem