his message 21 minutes _before_ you.
The times of receipt in my system give I received Tony's at 10.40 and yours
at 11.11 which made me, obviously wrongly, think you too would have seen it.
I should have known better. Within the last 24 hours someone asked a
detailed question but the detail of time period was forgotten. I asked for
them, the system delayed my message and someone else asked the same question
and then made a joke to me about being too late as he already had asked the
question. No I didn't bite his head off, demanding acknowledgement or
whatever.
WAR indeed used to contribute to gen-med, but has not done so for a very
long long time. I am making not guesses as to why he stopped, he appears
hardly present at Gen-Royal which to me indicates he is living a very bussy
life.
Didn't he black ban you from Gen-Royal? Nuff said indeed.
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Spencer Hines" <poguemidden@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 5:40 AM
Subject: Re: Gateway Gaffe? Adam Hawkes
Yes, Leo.
I say again:
I had not read Mr. Hoskins' post [which he only posted about 21 minutes
before mine] when I posted mine and did not have that information to
"contradict" what I had.
I simply posted what I had from AA&CoTPoW.
So, your charge that I carelessly passed over an obvious "contradiction"
and
was not "alert" [see below] is totally false.
WAR used to read this group -- and was often quite helpful.
I understand why he left.
'Nuff Said.
No Good Deed Goes Unpunished.
DSH
"Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au> wrote in message
news:mailman.2725.1170603610.30800.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...
Dear Spencer
I was replying to three messages, Tony Hoskins, Eldon Olson and yourself.
My original question was about the arrival of Adam Hawkes (not when he
married or where he later lived). I think there is a contradiction when
people give the names of the ships of the Winthrop Fleet, and the ship
"Mary & John" on which Hawkes apparently came is not on that list. This
implies he was not part of the Winthrop Fleet, but could the Mary & John
have been a separate operation? John Luff was a passenger on the Mary &
John and apparently he arrived in Boston in 1633. Has the Mary & John
done
more of these journeys? He is to be found in Reitwiesner and Roberts page
31.
I totally agree with you that when guessing, pinpoiting other facts in a
person's life can help. Tony Hoskins thought he could have arrived in
1634
and Eldon Olson (quoting the Great Migration Begins) thinks that Hawkes
could not have been in North America in 1633, only 1634 or later.
Quoting
Reitwiesner and Roberts (which I do have) certainly helped BUT seeing how
people said he was not in the country until earliest 1634 how could have
married circa 1631 in North America, any alert person would have caught
on
to that contradiction..
I do not think William Addams Reitwiesner follows gen-med, Gary Boyd
Roberts never has.
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Spencer Hines" <poguemidden@hotmail.com
Newsgroups: alt.history.british,soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: Gateway Gaffe ? Adam Hawkes
Leo, THINK for a change.
I simply posted what I thought would be useful to you.
No good deed goes unpunished.
You didn't even have the courtesy to acknowledge what I posted --
initially.
I made it quite clear I was REPORTING, not analyzing and taking a
position, because I didn't have sufficient data to do that.
When I posted, I had not yet seen Anthony's post -- so there was no
"contradiction" that I failed to realize and address.
The R &R book on the American Ancestors of Diana, Princess of Wales is a
standard source.
If you are working on New England 17th Century Americans, you'd be wise
to have it -- obviously you do not.
Perhaps Bill Reitwiesner [WAR] can shed some light on these issues.
He's
a co-author of the book.
DSH
"Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au> wrote in message
news:mailman.2699.1170576988.30800.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...
Dear Spencer,
There was an obvious contradiction, but you did not mention it.
Starting
to live in one place in 1638 and marrying circa 1631, when others say
he
was not in the country until roughly 1634 should have caught your
attention and mention it. Things like that usually do not escape your
attention. Someone mentioned to me a marriage by proxy with Adam in
England and Ann Hutchinson in North America, but that doesn't seem
likely, but could that be the answer?
Leo van de Pas
----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Spencer Hines" <poguemidden@hotmail.com
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval,soc.history.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: Gateway Gaffe ? Adam Hawkes
"Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au> wrote in message
news:mailman.2695.1170573565.30800.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...
The plot thickens................................
Family lore has him in 1630 on the Winthrop Fleet.................
Tony, has him arrive in 1634 (based on Adam's wife)
Eldon Olson has him not as yet arrived in 1633 (The Great Migration
Begins)
Spencer Hines, gives the surprise but did not realise it : He has him
settle in Charlestown in lynn 1638 and married circa 1631, as her
second
husband...........................................
What makes you think I "didn't realize" that, Leo.
Further, I don't have him settle or marry or anything else -- it is
Roberts and Reitwiesner who do.
I made it quite clear the information came from their book and gave a
full citation of their source, or one of them. WAR should be able to
speak to this.
Please quote me accurately, sans "simplification".
Aloha,
DSH
In a website I find that Adam Hawkes married circa 1631 Anne daughter
of
Edward Brown and Jane Lide in Charlestown or Lynn, MA. She was the
widow of
Thomas Hutchinson with several Hutchinson children.
If Adam Hawkes arrives in 1634 (Tony) or not yet in 1633 (Eldon) how
can he
marry in the USA circa 1631?
The question arrises when did his wife tell he arrived in
1634------she must have known they married ca.1631. Was this many
years after the event? Had
she forgotten?
With many thanks. I think it is a puzzle worth solving.
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
------------------------------------------
Leo, _American Ancestors and Cousins of the Princess of Wales_ does
place
Adam Hawkes in the Winthrop Fleet. Roberts and Reitweisner also have
Adam
as ---- baptized Higham, Norfolk, England 26 Jan 1605 as Adam and son
of
John Hawke. He reportedly died in Lynn, Massachusetts, 13 Mar
1671/72.
[p.
31]. No mention of the ship he arrived in.
He allegedly settled in Charlestown, in Lynn 1638 and married 1)
Charlestown,
circa 1631, as her second husband.
The source used by Roberts and Reitweisner, or at least one of them,
is
Smith, Ethel Farrington _Adam Hawkes of Saugus, Mass., 1605-1672: The
First
Six Generations in America_, Baltimore, 1980, pp. 1-31.
If you can find that book perhaps your dilemma will be resolved,
perhaps
not. Does anyone here have it?
The Winthrop Fleet story may just be Family Lore.
All Best Wishes,
DSH
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