Fw: Gateway Gaffe ? Adam Hawkes

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Leo van de Pas

Fw: Gateway Gaffe ? Adam Hawkes

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 04 feb 2007 13:27:39

They are too easy to find to have to identify. I just mentioned another one
"The Mary & John Clearing House", I found this by simply looking for "Mary &
John" this was the first one that came up. On this one they talk about 20
years research and all is still not clear. If William Addams Reitwiesner and
Gary Boyd Roberts are so certain in 1984 when their book was published, I
can only wonder why is John Luff not to be found on "The Mary & John
Clearing House" ? Nor his wife nor his daughter. Are you saying William
Addams Reitwiesner and Gary Boyd Roberts are infallibe?

Also why do you assume I give it credence when I stop the quote and point
out that this website must contain _some_ errors and that the year which
they have must have wrong and has a better year in Reitwiesner & Roberts'
book. That website is not "The Mary & John Clearing House."

You seem to misunderstand my messages, I am asking, trying to find out what
is right and what is wrong. I am not proclaiming anything. Maybe some people
have better sources, better knowledge.

Leo


----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Spencer Hines" <poguemidden@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval,soc.history.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: Gateway Gaffe ? Adam Hawkes


Why are you putting any credence in a website -- which you don't even
identify?

DSH

"Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au> wrote in message
news:mailman.2708.1170588065.30800.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...

On a website I found : Circa 1631 wshen Adam was 26, he first married Ann
Brown, daughter of Edward Brown and Jane Lide, in Charlestown or Lynn,
MA. She was the widow of Thomas Hutchinson and brought several children
by him with her into the marriage was Adam Hawkes. Ann was born about
1615 in Inkeberrow, Worcestershire..........

I might as well stop quoting here. Born ca.1615-----marries 2ndly ca 1631
already several children by her first husband?
Reiwiesner and Roberts have her as born ca.1595 and only possibly
daughter of Edward Brown and Jane Lide. What happened ca.1615? perhaps
that was the time she went to North America, or was it when she married
Thomas Hutchinson? Or both?

The plot thickens but also is being obscured-----can we find out the
facts? If Reitwiesner and Roberts say only perhaps, perhaps that is as
far as we can go?

With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Spencer Hines" <poguemidden@hotmail.com
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval,soc.history.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 7:45 PM
Subject: Re: Gateway Gaffe ? Adam Hawkes


R & R have Ann Hutchinson's FIRST husband as "perhaps Thomas Hutchinson
of Charlestown" -- and her second husband as Adam Hawkes.

DSH



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Gjest

Re: Fw: Gateway Gaffe ? Adam Hawkes

Legg inn av Gjest » 04 feb 2007 23:52:31

If as many people were on the Mary & John as their descendants
claimed, it would have been as large as the QEII.

Please remember that there are no actual passenger ship records for
this ship nor any other of this time period, even the Mayflower. What
exists are reconstructions based on other materials, such as Bradford
and Winthrop's writings. The best reconstruction of the Mary & John
is by Robert Charles Anderson at: New England Historical and
Genealogical Register 147:148-61. Adam Hawkes is not on the list.
This is largely based on Roger Clap's memoirs.

Finding the correct 17th century ship is quite the obsession for some
genealogists and a passion that has escaped me. However, in the
thrall of the Mayflower, many mediocre genealogists of the period 1860
to the present have tried to place the origins of their families as
far back as possible. There is a considerable amount of incorrect
information floating around due to that. Great Migration 1620-1633
and Great Migration 1634-5 are the two compendia you need to consult
for this time period for accuracy.


On Feb 4, 7:27 am, "Leo van de Pas" <leovd...@netspeed.com.au> wrote:
They are too easy to find to have to identify. I just mentioned another one
"The Mary & John Clearing House", I found this by simply looking for "Mary &
John" this was the first one that came up. On this one they talk about 20
years research and all is still not clear. If William Addams Reitwiesner and
Gary Boyd Roberts are so certain in 1984 when their book was published, I
can only wonder why is John Luff not to be found on "The Mary & John
Clearing House" ? Nor his wife nor his daughter. Are you saying William
Addams Reitwiesner and Gary Boyd Roberts are infallibe?

Also why do you assume I give it credence when I stop the quote and point
out that this website must contain _some_ errors and that the year which
they have must have wrong and has a better year in Reitwiesner & Roberts'
book. That website is not "The Mary & John Clearing House."

You seem to misunderstand my messages, I am asking, trying to find out what
is right and what is wrong. I am not proclaiming anything. Maybe some people
have better sources, better knowledge.

Leo

----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Spencer Hines" <poguemid...@hotmail.com

Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval,soc.history.medieval
To: <gen-medie...@rootsweb.com
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: Gateway Gaffe ? Adam Hawkes

Why are you putting any credence in a website -- which you don't even
identify?

DSH

"Leo van de Pas" <leovd...@netspeed.com.au> wrote in message
news:mailman.2708.1170588065.30800.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...

On a website I found : Circa 1631 wshen Adam was 26, he first married Ann
Brown, daughter of Edward Brown and Jane Lide, in Charlestown or Lynn,
MA. She was the widow of Thomas Hutchinson and brought several children
by him with her into the marriage was Adam Hawkes. Ann was born about
1615 in Inkeberrow, Worcestershire..........

I might as well stop quoting here. Born ca.1615-----marries 2ndly ca 1631
already several children by her first husband?
Reiwiesner and Roberts have her as born ca.1595 and only possibly
daughter of Edward Brown and Jane Lide. What happened ca.1615? perhaps
that was the time she went to North America, or was it when she married
Thomas Hutchinson? Or both?

The plot thickens but also is being obscured-----can we find out the
facts? If Reitwiesner and Roberts say only perhaps, perhaps that is as
far as we can go?

With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Spencer Hines" <poguemid...@hotmail.com
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval,soc.history.medieval
To: <gen-medie...@rootsweb.com
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 7:45 PM
Subject: Re: Gateway Gaffe ? Adam Hawkes

R & R have Ann Hutchinson's FIRST husband as "perhaps Thomas Hutchinson
of Charlestown" -- and her second husband as Adam Hawkes.

DSH

-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
GEN-MEDIEVAL-requ...@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
quotes in the subject and the body of the message

John Brandon

Re: Fw: Gateway Gaffe ? Adam Hawkes

Legg inn av John Brandon » 06 feb 2007 17:01:35

I may as well repost this information ...

See http://xenia.media.mit.edu/~kristin/fam ... awkes.html

Recently, I was very interested to notice the following two lawsuits
in _Index of Chancery Proceedings, Bridges' Division (1613-1714)_
London: P.R.O. [List and Index Society]; reprint, New York: Kraus,
1963. Vol. 2, p. 222:

Plaintiff: Hawkes, Adam, and Anne his wife.
Defendant: Sheene, Edward.
Date: 1657.
Place: Wymondham, Norfolk.

p. 225:

Plaintiff: Hawkes, Adam, and Anne his wife.
Defendant: Sheene, Jermyn, and others.
Date: 1661.
Place: Wymondham, &c., Norfolk.

The website above gives the baptism of Adam1 Hawkes the immigrant as
26 Jan. 1605, St. Andrews, Hingham, Norfolk. (I believe this agrees
with the well-documented genealogy of the Adam Hawkes family by Ethel
Farrington Smith). Wymondham, Norfolk, mentioned in the two suit
above, is about 2 miles distant from Hingham. Both Adam and Anne
Hawkes of Lynn, Mass., were living in both 1657 and 1661. John
Gifford, sometime of Lynn, Mass., was in England in those years,
pursuing his own lawsuits. As the Hawkes' land was known to contain
iron ore, and as Gifford later established his own Ironworks at Lynn
(known at various times as the New Ironworks, Chiswick, or the
Silverworks), perhaps he helped the Hawkeses with the suits. It would
be worth checking out, at least. (I believe there is even a third
lawsuit of the Hawkeses vs. a Charles Sheene in this time period --
maybe a search of Procat would reveal it.)

John Brandon

Re: Fw: Gateway Gaffe ? Adam Hawkes

Legg inn av John Brandon » 06 feb 2007 18:37:43

The three references to Hawkes v. Sheen are

C 5/28/64
C 5/39/56
C 5/610/280

from 1656, 1657, and 1661.

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