Fw: Gateway Gaffe ? Adam Hawkes

Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper

Svar
Leo van de Pas

Fw: Gateway Gaffe ? Adam Hawkes

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 04 feb 2007 02:00:18

The plot thickens................................

Family lore has him in 1630 on the Winthrop Fleet.................

Tony, has him arrive in 1634 (based on Adam's wife)

Eldon Olson has him not as yet arrived in 1633 (The Great Migration Begins)

Spencer Hines, gives the surprise but did not realise it : He has him
settle
in Charlestown in lynn 1638 and married circa 1631, as her second
husband...........................................


In a website I find that Adam Hawkes married circa 1631 Anne daughter of
Edward Brown and Jane Lide in Charlestown or Lynn, MA. She was the widow of
Thomas Hutchinson with several Hutchinson children.

If Adam Hawkes arrives in 1634 (Tony) or not yet in 1633 (Eldon) how can he
marry in the USA circa 1631?

The question arrises when did his wife tell he arrived in 1634------she
must
have known they married ca.1631. Was this many years after the event? Had
she forgotten?

With many thanks. I think it is a puzzle worth solving.
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Hoskins" <hoskins@sonoma.lib.ca.us
To: <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au>; <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: Gateway Gaffe ? Adam Hawkes


Hello Leo:

It appears Adam Hawkes was not a member of the Winrthrop party in 1630.
I descend from Adam Hawkes (through his daughter Susanna (Hawkes)
Cogswell), and to my knowledge the best source for him is R.C.
Anderson's _The Great Migration_, vol.3. (2003) pp. 253-7. In this work,
it is stated that Adam Hawkes arrived in 1634 (based on his wife's
admission to Charlestown, MA church). More to the point, he also says,
"The claim that Adam Hawkes came to New England in 1630 with the
WIntrhop Fleet [_ Adam Hawkes Gen._ 1, 6-12] is highly unlikely, given
the lack of records for him and his family prior to 1634. The list of
names from 1630 put forth in support of this claim is insufficient
evidence, since most of the entries on that list are only surnames, and
there are many which do not appear in New England."

Best wishes,

Tony



Anthony Hoskins
History, Genealogy and Archives Librarian
History and Genealogy Library
Sonoma County Library
3rd and E Streets
Santa Rosa, California 95404

707/545-0831, ext. 562


D. Spencer Hines

Re: Gateway Gaffe ? Adam Hawkes

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 04 feb 2007 08:52:31

"Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au> wrote in message
news:mailman.2695.1170573565.30800.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...

The plot thickens................................

Family lore has him in 1630 on the Winthrop Fleet.................

Tony, has him arrive in 1634 (based on Adam's wife)

Eldon Olson has him not as yet arrived in 1633 (The Great Migration
Begins)

Spencer Hines, gives the surprise but did not realise it : He has him
settle in Charlestown in lynn 1638 and married circa 1631, as her second
husband...........................................

What makes you think I "didn't realize" that, Leo.

Further, I don't have him settle or marry or anything else -- it is Roberts
and Reitwiesner who do.

I made it quite clear the information came from their book and gave a full
citation of their source, or one of them. WAR should be able to speak to
this.

Please quote me accurately, sans "simplification".

Aloha,

DSH

In a website I find that Adam Hawkes married circa 1631 Anne daughter of
Edward Brown and Jane Lide in Charlestown or Lynn, MA. She was the widow
of
Thomas Hutchinson with several Hutchinson children.

If Adam Hawkes arrives in 1634 (Tony) or not yet in 1633 (Eldon) how can
he
marry in the USA circa 1631?

The question arrises when did his wife tell he arrived in 1634------she
must have known they married ca.1631. Was this many years after the event?
Had
she forgotten?

With many thanks. I think it is a puzzle worth solving.
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
------------------------------------------


Leo, _American Ancestors and Cousins of the Princess of Wales_ does place
Adam Hawkes in the Winthrop Fleet. Roberts and Reitweisner also have Adam
as ---- baptized Higham, Norfolk, England 26 Jan 1605 as Adam and son of
John Hawke. He reportedly died in Lynn, Massachusetts, 13 Mar 1671/72. [p.
31]. No mention of the ship he arrived in.

He allegedly settled in Charlestown, in Lynn 1638 and married 1)
Charlestown,
circa 1631, as her second husband.

The source used by Roberts and Reitweisner, or at least one of them, is
Smith, Ethel Farrington _Adam Hawkes of Saugus, Mass., 1605-1672: The First
Six Generations in America_, Baltimore, 1980, pp. 1-31.

If you can find that book perhaps your dilemma will be resolved, perhaps
not. Does anyone here have it?

The Winthrop Fleet story may just be Family Lore.

All Best Wishes,

DSH

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Gateway Gaffe ? Adam Hawkes

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 04 feb 2007 08:57:09

Recte:

"Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au> wrote in message
news:mailman.2695.1170573565.30800.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...

The plot thickens................................

Family lore has him in 1630 on the Winthrop Fleet.................

Tony, has him arrive in 1634 (based on Adam's wife)

Eldon Olson has him not as yet arrived in 1633 (The Great Migration
Begins)

Spencer Hines, gives the surprise but did not realise it : He has him
settle in Charlestown in lynn [sic] 1638 and married circa 1631, as her
second
husband...........................................

What makes you think I "didn't realize" that, Leo?

Further, I don't have him settle or marry or anything else -- it is Roberts
and Reitwiesner who do.

I made it quite clear the information came from their book and gave a full
citation of their source, or one of them. WAR should be able to speak to
this.

Please quote me accurately, sans "simplification".

Aloha,

DSH

In a website I find that Adam Hawkes married circa 1631 Anne daughter of
Edward Brown and Jane Lide in Charlestown or Lynn, MA. She was the widow
of
Thomas Hutchinson with several Hutchinson children.

If Adam Hawkes arrives in 1634 (Tony) or not yet in 1633 (Eldon) how can
he
marry in the USA circa 1631?

The question arrises when did his wife tell he arrived in 1634------she
must have known they married ca.1631. Was this many years after the event?
Had
she forgotten?

With many thanks. I think it is a puzzle worth solving.
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
------------------------------------------


Leo, _American Ancestors and Cousins of the Princess of Wales_ does place
Adam Hawkes in the Winthrop Fleet. Roberts and Reitweisner also have Adam
as ---- baptized Higham, Norfolk, England 26 Jan 1605 as Adam and son of
John Hawke. He reportedly died in Lynn, Massachusetts, 13 Mar 1671/72. [p.
31]. No mention of the ship he arrived in.

He allegedly settled in Charlestown, in Lynn 1638 and married 1)
Charlestown, circa 1631, as her second husband.

The source used by Roberts and Reitweisner, or at least one of them, is
Smith, Ethel Farrington _Adam Hawkes of Saugus, Mass., 1605-1672: The First
Six Generations in America_, Baltimore, 1980, pp. 1-31.

If you can find that book perhaps your dilemma will be resolved, perhaps
not. Does anyone here have it?

The Winthrop Fleet story may just be Family Lore.

All Best Wishes,

DSH

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Gateway Gaffe ? Adam Hawkes

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 04 feb 2007 09:10:02

According to R & R, the marriage to Charleston took place CIRCA 1631 -- NOT
IN 1631.

DSH

D. Patterson

Re: Gateway Gaffe ? Adam Hawkes

Legg inn av D. Patterson » 04 feb 2007 18:11:27

Do you happen to have any information about Thomas Spencer==Submit Lomis,
parents of Temperance Spencer (1764/65--1834)==John Bigelow (1767--1844),
Haddam, Connecticut and/or Colchester, New London, Connecticut?

Temperance Spencer married John Bigelow, and one of their children was
Temperance Bigelow, who married David Williams Adams.

Gjest

Re: Fw: Gateway Gaffe ? Adam Hawkes

Legg inn av Gjest » 07 feb 2007 02:03:38

The Great Migration sketch of Adam Hawkes
shows that the supposition that his wife Anne
was sister of Edward Brown is *wrong*.

He could have been married about 1631, but there
is no evidence that the marriage took place in New England.

Leslie


On Feb 3, 5:00 pm, "Leo van de Pas" <leovd...@netspeed.com.au> wrote:
The plot thickens................................

Family lore has him in 1630 on the Winthrop Fleet.................

Tony, has him arrive in 1634 (based on Adam's wife)

Eldon Olson has him not as yet arrived in 1633 (The Great Migration Begins)

Spencer Hines, gives the surprise but did not realise it : He has him
settle
in Charlestown in lynn 1638 and married circa 1631, as her second
husband...........................................

In a website I find that Adam Hawkes married circa 1631 Anne daughter of
Edward Brown and Jane Lide in Charlestown or Lynn, MA. She was the widow of
Thomas Hutchinson with several Hutchinson children.

If Adam Hawkes arrives in 1634 (Tony) or not yet in 1633 (Eldon) how can he
marry in the USA circa 1631?

The question arrises when did his wife tell he arrived in 1634------she
must
have known they married ca.1631. Was this many years after the event? Had
she forgotten?

With many thanks. I think it is a puzzle worth solving.
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia







----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Hoskins" <hosk...@sonoma.lib.ca.us
To: <leovd...@netspeed.com.au>; <GEN-MEDIEVA...@rootsweb.com
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: Gateway Gaffe ? Adam Hawkes

Hello Leo:

It appears Adam Hawkes was not a member of the Winrthrop party in 1630.
I descend from Adam Hawkes (through his daughter Susanna (Hawkes)
Cogswell), and to my knowledge the best source for him is R.C.
Anderson's _The Great Migration_, vol.3. (2003) pp. 253-7. In this work,
it is stated that Adam Hawkes arrived in 1634 (based on his wife's
admission to Charlestown, MA church). More to the point, he also says,
"The claim that Adam Hawkes came to New England in 1630 with the
WIntrhop Fleet [_ Adam Hawkes Gen._ 1, 6-12] is highly unlikely, given
the lack of records for him and his family prior to 1634. The list of
names from 1630 put forth in support of this claim is insufficient
evidence, since most of the entries on that list are only surnames, and
there are many which do not appear in New England."

Best wishes,

Tony

Anthony Hoskins
History, Genealogy and Archives Librarian
History and Genealogy Library
Sonoma County Library
3rd and E Streets
Santa Rosa, California 95404

707/545-0831, ext. 562

John Brandon

Re: Fw: Gateway Gaffe ? Adam Hawkes

Legg inn av John Brandon » 07 feb 2007 16:20:46

The Great Migration sketch of Adam Hawkes
shows that the supposition that his wife Anne
was sister of Edward Brown is *wrong*.

I thought I remembered that there was doubt about that. Sort of too
bad, as Nicholas Browne of Reading (formerly the presumed brother of
Anne (___) (Hutchinson) Hawkes) mentions a deed from the time of Henry
VII that related to his inheritance at Morton Underhill,
Warwickshire ...

http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC1 ... 22+reading

http://books.google.com/books?vid=0tjJc ... 22+reading

The baptism of a Francis Hutchinson in the time period 1625-30 may be
a clue, as John Hawkes and Susanna (Hawkes) Cogswell had a half-
brother Francis Hutchinson.


John Brandon

Re: Gateway Gaffe? -- Adam Hawkes

Legg inn av John Brandon » 08 feb 2007 16:12:04

It's much more useful if you post some commentary -- rather than just a raw,
free-standing URL.

DSH

I don't see why I should bother about what is "useful." You never do.

D. Spencer Hines

Re: Gateway Gaffe? -- Adam Hawkes

Legg inn av D. Spencer Hines » 08 feb 2007 18:21:57

Hilarious!

Because you won't be READ -- FOOL.

DSH

"John Brandon" <starbuck95@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170947524.562812.113720@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...

It's much more useful if you post some commentary -- rather than just a raw,
free-standing URL.

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Fortem Posce Animum

"John Brandon" <starbuck95@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170877028.165237.14880@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC03975659&id=pTMEAAAAIAAJ&pg=RA2-PA175&lpg=RA2-PA175&dq=%22thomas+lyde

I don't see why I should bother about what is "useful." You never do.

John Brandon

Re: Gateway Gaffe? -- Adam Hawkes

Legg inn av John Brandon » 08 feb 2007 18:38:06

Because you won't be READ -- FOOL.

You mean my postings will start to fall into the same category as all
of yours?

It's fun to be abused by someone whose cartoonish understanding of
genealogy has never produced anything more profound than the following
statements (taken at random) --

--"King John does indeed have tens of millions of descendants."
--"There are many Brits, millions of them, and Americans as well --
who are DESCENDANTS of Bastards -- but NOT bastards THEMSELVES."
--"John Isaac Bates [1598-1666] is my 10th Great-Grandfather. What is
he to you? Do you perhaps descend as well from Master Bates?"

Svar

Gå tilbake til «soc.genealogy.medieval»