How old are family trees?

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Svar
Alan Crozier

How old are family trees?

Legg inn av Alan Crozier » 22 jan 2007 12:06:40

I posed this question some time ago in soc.history.medieval and got no
useful answer. I wasn't aware of the existence of this group, where I
hope for better results.

What is the oldest known instance of the use of branching diagrams to
illustrate descent from an ancestor?

In other words, what is the oldest known graphic representation of a
branching diagram or a stylized tree for genealogical purposes?

Alan
--

John P. Ravilious

Re: How old are family trees?

Legg inn av John P. Ravilious » 22 jan 2007 15:07:51

Dear Alan,

There is an excellent thread on SGM, <oldest trees>, which you can
find in the archives (either on Google or via rootsweb.com). I have
copied below two excellent posts in the thread, by Nat Taylor and by
Robert J. O'Hara, dealing with this exact subject.

Hope this is helpful.

Cheers,

John

=============================================

From: Nat Taylor - view profile
Date: Sat, Mar 31 2001 9:57 pm
Email: nlta...@pop.uky.edu (Nat Taylor)


In article <3AC643A0.D3741...@amu.edu.pl>, raf...@amu.edu.pl (Rafal T.

Prinke) wrote:
Does anyone know what are the earliest diagrammatic representations
of genealogies? After doing some searching I believe the pedigree
(British meaning) as we know them today must have appeared only
in the Renaissance. But were there medieval diagrammatic
pedigrees?

Also, what are the earliest graphical representations of
genealogies as trees? I know the Tree of Jesse motiff was
quite popular in sacred art from circa 1000 - but when
was it applied to the genealogies of mortals?

Best regards,

Rafal

Rafal,

There is an excellent recent book on this: _L'ombre des ancetres: essai
sur l'imaginaire médiéval de la parenté_ by Christiane
Klapisch-Zuber
(Paris: Fayard, 2000). I've also done considerable research on this
myself. The earliest widespread genealogical diagrams are those in the
10th-century Spanish manuscripts of Beatus of Liébana's commentary on
the
apocalypse, and in late 9th and 10th-century abstract kinship trees
(stemmata graduum) from legal manuscripts; the earliest concrete
diagrams
of actual subjects date from the eleventh century and later: there is a
collection of chronicles of Frotulf of Michelsburg, and the Codex
Aureus
of Prüm, which contains a set of trees of the Carolingians &
Ottonians,
present in many later copies in the Rhineland. The Tree of Jesse arose
not until the early 12th century: there is an excellent recent article
in
_Speculum_ (just this past year, but I can't lay my finder on it)
giving
its textual and theological sources. There is also the old book by
Arthur
Watson: _The early iconography of the tree of Jesse_ (Oxford, 1934).

Hope this helps.

Nat Taylor

==================================================

From: Robert J. O'Hara - view profile
Date: Sat, Mar 31 2001 10:49 pm
Email: "Robert J. O'Hara" <rjoh...@uncg.edu>


Nat Taylor wrote:
There is an excellent recent book on this: _L'ombre des ancetres: essai
sur l'imaginaire médiéval de la parenté_ by Christiane Klapisch-Zuber
(Paris: Fayard, 2000). I've also done considerable research on this
myself.

This is very interesting to me and I'm grateful for the information. I
have come at this subject from another direction, because I am
interested in the history of "genealogical" trees in general, including
trees of language evolution, manuscript descent, species evolution, and
so on. If your interests extend beyond human genealogy you may find my
bibliography on "trees of history" of interest:

http://rjohara.net/darwin/files/biblio.trees

I have written a bit about the history of these diagrams and you can
find the text (but not illustrations, alas) at
http://rjohara.net/cv/publications.html

In all these other fields, trees of history came into use in the first
half of the 1800s. I'd be interersted to hear of other examples of
"genealogical" trees that show the descent of anything other than
humans.

RJO

--
Dr. Robert J. O'Hara (rjoh...@post.harvard.edu - http://rjohara.net)
Biology Department, University of North Carolina, Greensboro, NC 27402
USA
Residential Colleges and Higher Education Reform:
http://collegiateway.org

=============================================

Alan Crozier wrote:
I posed this question some time ago in soc.history.medieval and got no
useful answer. I wasn't aware of the existence of this group, where I
hope for better results.

What is the oldest known instance of the use of branching diagrams to
illustrate descent from an ancestor?

In other words, what is the oldest known graphic representation of a
branching diagram or a stylized tree for genealogical purposes?

Alan
--

Alan Crozier

Re: How old are family trees?

Legg inn av Alan Crozier » 22 jan 2007 15:27:54

Wonderful! Just what I wanted. With references to real publications to
boot!

Many thanks

Alan

--

"John P. Ravilious" <therav3@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1169474871.025163.24320@s34g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Dear Alan,

There is an excellent thread on SGM, <oldest trees>, which you can
find in the archives (either on Google or via rootsweb.com). I have
copied below two excellent posts in the thread, by Nat Taylor and by
Robert J. O'Hara, dealing with this exact subject.

Hope this is helpful.

Cheers,

John

==============================================


From: Nat Taylor - view profile
Date: Sat, Mar 31 2001 9:57 pm
Email: nlta...@pop.uky.edu (Nat Taylor)


In article <3AC643A0.D3741...@amu.edu.pl>, raf...@amu.edu.pl (Rafal T.

Prinke) wrote:
Does anyone know what are the earliest diagrammatic representations
of genealogies? After doing some searching I believe the pedigree
(British meaning) as we know them today must have appeared only
in the Renaissance. But were there medieval diagrammatic
pedigrees?

Also, what are the earliest graphical representations of
genealogies as trees? I know the Tree of Jesse motiff was
quite popular in sacred art from circa 1000 - but when
was it applied to the genealogies of mortals?

Best regards,

Rafal

Rafal,

There is an excellent recent book on this: _L'ombre des ancetres: essai
sur l'imaginaire médiéval de la parenté_ by Christiane
Klapisch-Zuber
(Paris: Fayard, 2000). I've also done considerable research on this
myself. The earliest widespread genealogical diagrams are those in the
10th-century Spanish manuscripts of Beatus of Liébana's commentary on
the
apocalypse, and in late 9th and 10th-century abstract kinship trees
(stemmata graduum) from legal manuscripts; the earliest concrete
diagrams
of actual subjects date from the eleventh century and later: there is a
collection of chronicles of Frotulf of Michelsburg, and the Codex
Aureus
of Prüm, which contains a set of trees of the Carolingians &
Ottonians,
present in many later copies in the Rhineland. The Tree of Jesse arose
not until the early 12th century: there is an excellent recent article
in
_Speculum_ (just this past year, but I can't lay my finder on it)
giving
its textual and theological sources. There is also the old book by
Arthur
Watson: _The early iconography of the tree of Jesse_ (Oxford, 1934).

Hope this helps.

Nat Taylor

===================================================


From: Robert J. O'Hara - view profile
Date: Sat, Mar 31 2001 10:49 pm
Email: "Robert J. O'Hara" <rjoh...@uncg.edu>


Nat Taylor wrote:
There is an excellent recent book on this: _L'ombre des ancetres:
essai
sur l'imaginaire médiéval de la parenté_ by Christiane Klapisch-Zuber
(Paris: Fayard, 2000). I've also done considerable research on this
myself.

This is very interesting to me and I'm grateful for the information. I
have come at this subject from another direction, because I am
interested in the history of "genealogical" trees in general, including
trees of language evolution, manuscript descent, species evolution, and
so on. If your interests extend beyond human genealogy you may find my
bibliography on "trees of history" of interest:

http://rjohara.net/darwin/files/biblio.trees

I have written a bit about the history of these diagrams and you can
find the text (but not illustrations, alas) at
http://rjohara.net/cv/publications.html

In all these other fields, trees of history came into use in the first
half of the 1800s. I'd be interersted to hear of other examples of
"genealogical" trees that show the descent of anything other than
humans.

RJO

--
Dr. Robert J. O'Hara (rjoh...@post.harvard.edu - http://rjohara.net)
Biology Department, University of North Carolina, Greensboro, NC 27402
USA
Residential Colleges and Higher Education Reform:
http://collegiateway.org

==============================================


Alan Crozier wrote:
I posed this question some time ago in soc.history.medieval and got no
useful answer. I wasn't aware of the existence of this group, where I
hope for better results.

What is the oldest known instance of the use of branching diagrams to
illustrate descent from an ancestor?

In other words, what is the oldest known graphic representation of a
branching diagram or a stylized tree for genealogical purposes?

Alan
--

Nathaniel Taylor

Re: How old are family trees?

Legg inn av Nathaniel Taylor » 22 jan 2007 15:56:26

In article <KR3th.29996$E02.12323@newsb.telia.net>,
"Alan Crozier" <name1.name2@telia.com> wrote:

Wonderful! Just what I wanted. With references to real publications to
boot!

I was going to add some more to the old posts John dredged up, with
another old post (of mine) on the same subject, copied below:

Nat Taylor
http://www.nltaylor.net

===================================

Path:
archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!logbridge.uor
egon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!wn13feed!wn11feed!worldnet.att.net!207.217.
77.102!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.ea
rthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Nathaniel Taylor <ntay...@post.harvard.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Subject: re: medieval genealogical tables, Trees of Jesse, etc.
Organization: .
References: <3e1ecbc5$0$2200$a729d347@news.telepac.pt>
User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC)
Message-ID: <ntaylor-8D39CA.10571610012003@nnrp01.earthlink.net>
Lines: 93
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 15:56:40 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.167.249.184
X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net
X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1042214200 66.167.249.184
(Fri, 10 Jan 2003 07:56:40 PST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 07:56:40 PST

A reply to a series of posts under different subject headings by
Fernando Teixeira:

I.

What are the most ancient genealogic graphic tables?

Those in the late ninth and tenth-century _Commentary on the Apocalpyse_
MSS of Beatus of Liebana (see below). There earliest concrete tables
(of non-biblical persons) are probably the eleventh-century diagrams of
Carolingian and Salian kings in two series of chronicle manuscripts from
the Rhineland, of which the earliest examples are eleventh century. See:

Nora Gädeke, _Zeugnisse bildlicher Darstellung der Nachkommenschaft
Heinrichs I_ (Arbeiten zur Frühmittelalterforschung, 22: Berlin: Walter
de Gruyter, 1992).

II.

Where can I found ancient Trees of Jesse in United Kigdom?

In addition to some manuscript illuminations in London & Oxford (incl.
the Lambeth bible, and many of French provenance) I would point out
especially the unusual and very early Jesse Tree on a 12th-century tomb
slab (believed to be that of bishop Remigius) in the nave of Lincoln
Cathedral; and the more conventional early 13th-century stained glass
Jesse Tree window in Canterbury. An old but well-written basic
introduction to the Tree of Jesse (but with no very comprehensive census
of examples) is:

Arthur Watson, _The early iconography of the tree of Jesse_ (London:
Oxford University Press / H. Milford, 1934).

III.

What kind of genealogic tables are in the Commentary of the Apocalypse
of
Beatus of Liebana?

They all take the form of a series of tables representing the
descendants of Adam and Eve as outlined in the Old Testament, spreading
over eight or ten pages, including some one to two hundred individuals,
and culminating in Jesus' descent. They consist of connected roundels
that do not follow a specific orientation or iconographic theme. Of the
26 known medieval manuscripts (including fragments) of Beatus'
commentary from the end of the ninth through the late 12th century,
eleven have this sequence of tables (or parts of them). See:

John Williams, _The Illustrated Beatus: a Corpus of the Illustrations of
the Commentary on the Apocalypse_ (4 vols. to date; London: Harvey
Miller, 1994- ).

A magnificent example of these from the early 10th century is relatively
widely accessible in the published facsimile of the Morgan Beatus:

_A Spanish Apocalypse: the Morgan Beatus manuscript_, ed. John Williams
& Barbara A. Shailor (New York: Braziller, 1991).

IV.

What are the "stemmata graduum" or kingship tables of the Roman and
canon
law texts in Middle-Age?

These are a variety of schematic diagrams representing hypothetical
calculations of degrees (Latin 'gradus') of kinship. They derive from
various sources, including the textual discussions of calculating
degrees of kinship handed down from Roman Law (specifically, in the
commentaries of Paulus, as preserved in the Theodosian Code, as well as
in other Roman texts). Some of the earliest extant diagrams are also
attached to other textual sources, including Saint Isidore's
_Etymologies_, though the earliest known diagrams are from the ninth
century and may not have been originally circulated with Isidore's text.
The fullest exploration of the stemmata graduum (with many, many B&W
plates) is:

Hermann Schadt, _Die Darstellungen der Arbores Consanguinitatis und der
Arbores Affinitatis: Bildschemata in juristischen Handschriften_
(Tübingen: Ernst Wasmuth, 1982).

==========

Another source on the concrete tables, emphasizing the evolution of the
use of the 'tree' motif for genealogical representation, is:

Christiane Klapisch-Zuber, _L'ombre des ancêtres: essai sur l'imaginaire
médiéval de la parenté_ (Paris: Fayard, 2000).

Nat Taylor

Alan Crozier

Re: How old are family trees?

Legg inn av Alan Crozier » 22 jan 2007 15:59:59

Nat, many thanks for even more bibliographical references.

Alan

--

"Nathaniel Taylor" <nathanieltaylor@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:nathanieltaylor-2974D3.09562522012007@news.west.earthlink.net...
In article <KR3th.29996$E02.12323@newsb.telia.net>,
"Alan Crozier" <name1.name2@telia.com> wrote:

Wonderful! Just what I wanted. With references to real publications
to
boot!

I was going to add some more to the old posts John dredged up, with
another old post (of mine) on the same subject, copied below:

Nat Taylor
http://www.nltaylor.net

===================================

Path:

archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!logbridge.uo

r
egon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!wn13feed!wn11feed!worldnet.att.net!207.217

..
77.102!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.e

a
rthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Nathaniel Taylor <ntay...@post.harvard.edu
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Subject: re: medieval genealogical tables, Trees of Jesse, etc.
Organization: .
References: <3e1ecbc5$0$2200$a729d347@news.telepac.pt
User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC)
Message-ID: <ntaylor-8D39CA.10571610012003@nnrp01.earthlink.net
Lines: 93
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 15:56:40 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.167.249.184
X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net
X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1042214200 66.167.249.184
(Fri, 10 Jan 2003 07:56:40 PST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 07:56:40 PST

A reply to a series of posts under different subject headings by
Fernando Teixeira:

I.

What are the most ancient genealogic graphic tables?

Those in the late ninth and tenth-century _Commentary on the
Apocalpyse_
MSS of Beatus of Liebana (see below). There earliest concrete tables
(of non-biblical persons) are probably the eleventh-century diagrams
of
Carolingian and Salian kings in two series of chronicle manuscripts
from
the Rhineland, of which the earliest examples are eleventh century.
See:

Nora Gädeke, _Zeugnisse bildlicher Darstellung der Nachkommenschaft
Heinrichs I_ (Arbeiten zur Frühmittelalterforschung, 22: Berlin:
Walter
de Gruyter, 1992).

II.

Where can I found ancient Trees of Jesse in United Kigdom?

In addition to some manuscript illuminations in London & Oxford (incl.
the Lambeth bible, and many of French provenance) I would point out
especially the unusual and very early Jesse Tree on a 12th-century
tomb
slab (believed to be that of bishop Remigius) in the nave of Lincoln
Cathedral; and the more conventional early 13th-century stained glass
Jesse Tree window in Canterbury. An old but well-written basic
introduction to the Tree of Jesse (but with no very comprehensive
census
of examples) is:

Arthur Watson, _The early iconography of the tree of Jesse_ (London:
Oxford University Press / H. Milford, 1934).

III.

What kind of genealogic tables are in the Commentary of the
Apocalypse
of
Beatus of Liebana?

They all take the form of a series of tables representing the
descendants of Adam and Eve as outlined in the Old Testament,
spreading
over eight or ten pages, including some one to two hundred
individuals,
and culminating in Jesus' descent. They consist of connected roundels
that do not follow a specific orientation or iconographic theme. Of
the
26 known medieval manuscripts (including fragments) of Beatus'
commentary from the end of the ninth through the late 12th century,
eleven have this sequence of tables (or parts of them). See:

John Williams, _The Illustrated Beatus: a Corpus of the Illustrations
of
the Commentary on the Apocalypse_ (4 vols. to date; London: Harvey
Miller, 1994- ).

A magnificent example of these from the early 10th century is
relatively
widely accessible in the published facsimile of the Morgan Beatus:

_A Spanish Apocalypse: the Morgan Beatus manuscript_, ed. John
Williams
& Barbara A. Shailor (New York: Braziller, 1991).

IV.

What are the "stemmata graduum" or kingship tables of the Roman and
canon
law texts in Middle-Age?

These are a variety of schematic diagrams representing hypothetical
calculations of degrees (Latin 'gradus') of kinship. They derive from
various sources, including the textual discussions of calculating
degrees of kinship handed down from Roman Law (specifically, in the
commentaries of Paulus, as preserved in the Theodosian Code, as well
as
in other Roman texts). Some of the earliest extant diagrams are also
attached to other textual sources, including Saint Isidore's
_Etymologies_, though the earliest known diagrams are from the ninth
century and may not have been originally circulated with Isidore's
text.
The fullest exploration of the stemmata graduum (with many, many B&W
plates) is:

Hermann Schadt, _Die Darstellungen der Arbores Consanguinitatis und
der
Arbores Affinitatis: Bildschemata in juristischen Handschriften_
(Tübingen: Ernst Wasmuth, 1982).

==========

Another source on the concrete tables, emphasizing the evolution of
the
use of the 'tree' motif for genealogical representation, is:

Christiane Klapisch-Zuber, _L'ombre des ancêtres: essai sur
l'imaginaire
médiéval de la parenté_ (Paris: Fayard, 2000).

Nat Taylor

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