Agnes Sorel mysteries

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Leo van de Pas

Agnes Sorel mysteries

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 20 jan 2007 05:34:31

I am trying to establish her family a little more solidly and to be honest I am hitting brick walls.

Agnes Sorel was a daughter of Jean Soreau and Catherine de Maignelais. Why is she known as Sorel when her father was Soreau?

I found four brothers (but no sister) for Agnes : Andre, Charles, Jean and Louis. All four seem to have been called Soreau. These four brothers seem not to have left a trace. Surely with Agnes in a position of power she would have found properties or positions for them?
Her father's brother Geoffroy Soreau became Bishop of Nimes, did she have a hand in this?

Apparently she became an orphan quite young. Would it be possible that her immediate family was wiped out through disease?
She was first looked after (I understand) by her mother's sister-in-law Marie de Jouy, Madame de Maignelais wife of Jean II Seigneur de Maignelais.

Even the year of her birth is vague, about 1422. Apparently she was about 28 when she died.

Can anyone help?
With many thanks
Leo van de Pas,
Canberra, Australia

Gjest

Re: Agnes Sorel mysteries

Legg inn av Gjest » 21 jan 2007 03:38:14

On Jan 20, 5:34 am, "Leo van de Pas" <leovd...@netspeed.com.au> wrote:
I am trying to establish her family a little more solidly and to be honest I am hitting brick walls.

Agnes Sorel was a daughter of Jean Soreau and Catherine de Maignelais. Why is she known as Sorel when her father was Soreau?

I found four brothers (but no sister) for Agnes : Andre, Charles, Jean and Louis. All four seem to have been called Soreau. These four brothers seem not to have left a trace. Surely with Agnes in a position of power she would have found properties or positions for them?
Her father's brother Geoffroy Soreau became Bishop of Nimes, did she have a hand in this?

Apparently she became an orphan quite young. Would it be possible that her immediate family was wiped out through disease?
She was first looked after (I understand) by her mother's sister-in-law Marie de Jouy, Madame de Maignelais wife of Jean II Seigneur de Maignelais.

Even the year of her birth is vague, about 1422. Apparently she was about 28 when she died.

Can anyone help?
With many thanks
Leo van de Pas,
Canberra, Australia

Gjest

Re: Agnes Sorel mysteries

Legg inn av Gjest » 21 jan 2007 03:40:38

On Jan 21, 3:38 am, eric.francoi...@wanadoo.fr wrote:
On Jan 20, 5:34 am, "Leo van de Pas" <leovd...@netspeed.com.au> wrote:



I am trying to establish her family a little more solidly and to be honest I am hitting brick walls.

Agnes Sorel was a daughter of Jean Soreau and Catherine de Maignelais. Why is she known as Sorel when her father was Soreau?

I found four brothers (but no sister) for Agnes : Andre, Charles, Jean and Louis. All four seem to have been called Soreau. These four brothers seem not to have left a trace. Surely with Agnes in a position of power she would have found properties or positions for them?
Her father's brother Geoffroy Soreau became Bishop of Nimes, did she have a hand in this?

Apparently she became an orphan quite young. Would it be possible that her immediate family was wiped out through disease?
She was first looked after (I understand) by her mother's sister-in-law Marie de Jouy, Madame de Maignelais wife of Jean II Seigneur de Maignelais.

Even the year of her birth is vague, about 1422. Apparently she was about 28 when she died.

Can anyone help?
With many thanks
Leo van de Pas,
Canberra, Australia- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

Gjest

Re: Agnes Sorel mysteries

Legg inn av Gjest » 21 jan 2007 03:50:35

On Jan 21, 3:40 am, eric.francoi...@wanadoo.fr wrote:
On Jan 21, 3:38 am, eric.francoi...@wanadoo.fr wrote:



On Jan 20, 5:34 am, "Leo van de Pas" <leovd...@netspeed.com.au> wrote:

I am trying to establish her family a little more solidly and to be honest I am hitting brick walls.

Agnes Sorel was a daughter of Jean Soreau and Catherine de Maignelais. Why is she known as Sorel when her father was Soreau?

I found four brothers (but no sister) for Agnes : Andre, Charles, Jean and Louis. All four seem to have been called Soreau. These four brothers seem not to have left a trace. Surely with Agnes in a position of power she would have found properties or positions for them?
Her father's brother Geoffroy Soreau became Bishop of Nimes, did she have a hand in this?

Apparently she became an orphan quite young. Would it be possible that her immediate family was wiped out through disease?
She was first looked after (I understand) by her mother's sister-in-law Marie de Jouy, Madame de Maignelais wife of Jean II Seigneur de Maignelais.

Even the year of her birth is vague, about 1422. Apparently she was about 28 when she died.

Can anyone help?
With many thanks
Leo van de Pas,
Canberra, Australia- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

Denis Beauregard

Re: Agnes Sorel mysteries

Legg inn av Denis Beauregard » 21 jan 2007 07:24:01

On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 15:34:31 +1100, "Leo van de Pas"
<leovdpas@netspeed.com.au> wrote in soc.genealogy.medieval:

I am trying to establish her family a little more solidly and to be honest I am hitting brick walls.

Agnes Sorel was a daughter of Jean Soreau and Catherine de Maignelais. Why is she known as Sorel when her father was Soreau?

Sorel is the female form of Soreau, that's all. Actually, the exact
female form would be Sorelle, but at that time, spelling was not yet
fixed.

This usage happened many times in early Quebec records (after 1621).
For example, family names in -et written as -ette (i.e. Frenet and
Frenette, Guenet and Guenette, etc.). Roy written as Reine for a
mother. However, this happened many times but was not very
frequent i.e. you will find very few records where the family name
is written with the female form for a daughter.

This has nothing to do with poetry.


Denis

--
0 Denis Beauregard -
/\/ Les Français d'Amérique - http://www.francogene.com/genealogie-quebec/
|\ French in North America before 1721 - http://www.francogene.com/quebec-genealogy/
/ | Maintenant sur cédérom, début à 1765
oo oo Now on CD-ROM, beginning to 1765

Leo van de Pas

Re: Agnes Sorel mysteries

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 21 jan 2007 08:12:03

Many thanks. This at least explains her surname.
Leo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Denis Beauregard" <denis.b-at-francogene.com@fr.invalid>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 5:24 PM
Subject: Re: Agnes Sorel mysteries


On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 15:34:31 +1100, "Leo van de Pas"
<leovdpas@netspeed.com.au> wrote in soc.genealogy.medieval:

I am trying to establish her family a little more solidly and to be honest
I am hitting brick walls.

Agnes Sorel was a daughter of Jean Soreau and Catherine de Maignelais. Why
is she known as Sorel when her father was Soreau?

Sorel is the female form of Soreau, that's all. Actually, the exact
female form would be Sorelle, but at that time, spelling was not yet
fixed.

This usage happened many times in early Quebec records (after 1621).
For example, family names in -et written as -ette (i.e. Frenet and
Frenette, Guenet and Guenette, etc.). Roy written as Reine for a
mother. However, this happened many times but was not very
frequent i.e. you will find very few records where the family name
is written with the female form for a daughter.

This has nothing to do with poetry.


Denis

--
0 Denis Beauregard -
/\/ Les Français d'Amérique - http://www.francogene.com/genealogie-quebec/
|\ French in North America before 1721 -
http://www.francogene.com/quebec-genealogy/
/ | Maintenant sur cédérom, début à 1765
oo oo Now on CD-ROM, beginning to 1765

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jlucsoler

Re: Agnes Sorel mysteries

Legg inn av jlucsoler » 21 jan 2007 09:43:35

Denis je suis desolé je ne suis pas tout a fait d'accord


even for male, we can often meet on XIV, XV, XVI XVII centuries acts the
form "el" and "au" (or "eau") for the same people.

the form can change even in the same act

for example... a district in marseille is called "les Cadeneaux" the founder
was a farmer of the XV century called on acts "André cadenel" on other act
he is calles "Cadeneau, cadenau" but for the most part it is CADENEL

his daugthers were called CADENELLE or CADENEL

it s the same for many names in provence CODONEL/CODONAU
COSTEBEL/COUSTABEAU and others and others... for MALES

Gjest

Re: Agnes Sorel mysteries

Legg inn av Gjest » 21 jan 2007 13:04:15

On Jan 20, 5:34 am, "Leo van de Pas" <leovd...@netspeed.com.au> wrote:
I am trying to establish her family a little more solidly and to be honest I am hitting brick walls.

Agnes Sorel was a daughter of Jean Soreau and Catherine de Maignelais. Why is she known as Sorel when her father was Soreau?

I found four brothers (but no sister) for Agnes : Andre, Charles, Jean and Louis. All four seem to have been called Soreau. These four brothers seem not to have left a trace. Surely with Agnes in a position of power she would have found properties or positions for them?
Her father's brother Geoffroy Soreau became Bishop of Nimes, did she have a hand in this?

Apparently she became an orphan quite young. Would it be possible that her immediate family was wiped out through disease?
She was first looked after (I understand) by her mother's sister-in-law Marie de Jouy, Madame de Maignelais wife of Jean II Seigneur de Maignelais.

Even the year of her birth is vague, about 1422. Apparently she was about 28 when she died.

Can anyone help?
With many thanks
Leo van de Pas,
Canberra, Australia

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