much as Secondary ones.
When do we classify a source as unreliable? Unreliable enough to set aside?
I can think only of 'Royalty for Commoners' by Roderick Stuart, and even
this work contains much acceptable information.
I stay away from this book because it is not clear where reality ends and
wishful thinking takes over.
Both Turton's The Plantagenet Ancestry and Gerald Paget's Ancestry of the
Prince of Wales, we know, contain errors.
But neither have warranted a website displaying errors as Richardson's
Plantagenet Ancestry has.
When you say I have been using unreliable secondary sources again, should I
range your work amongst these? And what were the prior occurrences?
I have asked Richardson, several times now, to practice what he preaches:
Nicknames are only allowed to be used if the nickname has primary sources in
the time of that person. What are the Primary sources for the Black Prince?
According to your posturing they must be in esixtence, as otherwise you
would not have used it.........at least that is what you want us to
believe...........................
----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Richardson" <royalancestry@msn.com>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 2:37 AM
Subject: No C.P. error, just a Leo error
Dear Leo ~
It appears you are using some unreliable secondary sources again.
Sir John Beauchamp, 2nd Lord Beauchamo of Kidderminster, had one
daughter and heiress, Margaret. Margaret Beauchamp was married three
times: John Pauncefoot, Sir John Wysham, and Sir Walter Skulle. She
had three daughters by her Wysham marriage, Alice, Joan, and Elizabeth.
She also had one son, Thomas, by her Skulle marriage. Following
Margaret's death, her widower, Sir Walter Skulle, married (2nd) Frances
Winchecombe, widow of William Mulle (or Mille). They were the parents
of your Joyce Skulle, who married Edward Croft.
I've copied below the account of these families taken from my book,
Magna Carta Ancestry (2005). I've included all of my references. I
especially recommend you read the article in Historical Research, 68
(1995): 241-265.
I have a passing interest in this matter as I descend from the Mulle or
Mulle family through my immigrant ancestress, Agnes (Harris) (Spencer)
Edwards, of Connecticut.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
BEAUCHAMP FAMILY
9. ISABEL FERRERS, married before 1397 JOHN BEAUCHAMP, Knt., of
Kidderminster and Holt, Worcestershire, and Ardley, South Weston, and
Wigginton, Oxfordshire, Shotteswell, Warwickshire, etc., Escheator of
Worcestershire, Knight of the Shire for Worcestershire, son and heir of
John Beauchamp, Knt., 1st Lord Beauchamp of Kidderminster, Esquire of
the King's Chamber, Justice of North Wales, Steward of the Household
to King Richard II, by Joan, daughter and heiress of Robert Fitz Wyth.
He was born 6 Jan. 1377, and was godson of King Richard II of England.
They had one daughter, Margaret. By the reversal of the proceedings of
the Merciless Parliament in 1398, he became 2nd Lord Beauchamp of
Kidderminster. He accompanied the King into Ireland the following
year. On the accession of King Henry IV in 1399, his father's
attainder was reaffirmed and his honours were again forfeited. He
married (2nd) about 1410 Alice _____. SIR JOHN BEAUCHAMP died 27
August 1420. His widow, Alice, died before 1428.
References:
Nash, Colls. for the Hist. of Worcestershire 1 (1781): 593-594, 601.
C.P. 2 (1912): 46 (sub Beauchamp). VCH Worcester 3 (1913): 403-405
(arms of Beauchamp of Kidderminster: Gules a fesse between six martlets
or). Feudal Aids 4 (1906): 190. VCH Warwick 5 (1949): 148; 6 (1951):
46. VCH Oxford 6 (1959): 9; 8 (1964): 254-255; 9 (1969): 161. Cal.
Inqs. Misc. 6 (1963): 159-162 ("... John son and heir of the said
John [Beauchamp of Holt], being still a minor in the earl's ward,
married the sister of lord de Ferrers of Groby without the earl's
license"), 163-164. Roskell et al., House of Commons 1386-1421 2
(1992): 153-154 (biog. of Sir John Beauchamp).
10. MARGARET BEAUCHAMP, daughter and heiress, born about 1400. She
married (1st) JOHN PAUNCEFOOT (died before 1420). She married (2nd)
before 1422 JOHN WYSHAM (or WISHAM), Knt., of Churchill, Shelsley
Beauchamp, Woodmanton (in Clifton upon Teme), and Wolverton (in
Stoulton), Worcestershire, and, in right of his wife, of Holt,
Worcestershire, Ardley, South Weston, and Wigginton, Oxfordshire, and
Bubbenhall, Warwickshire, son and heir of William Wysham, Knt., of
Churchill, Shelsley Beauchamp, etc., Worcestershire, by his wife,
Margaret. They had three daughters, Alice, Joan (wife of _____
Westcote and John Croft), and Elizabeth (wife of Thomas Croft and
Nicholas Crowmer). He was living in 1434. She married (3rd) before
1437 (as his 1st wife) WALTER SKULLE, Knt., of Hereford and London,
attorney, Keeper of the King's Wardrobe, Treasurer of the Household,
Knight of the Shire for Worcestershire, Sheriff of Herefordshire, of
Oxfordshire and Berkshire, and of Worcestershire. They had one son,
Thomas. Sir Walter married (2nd) before 1464 Frances Winchcombe, widow
of William Mulle (or Mille), of Harescombe, Gloucestershire, and
Allensmore and Avenbury, Herefordshire, and daughter and heiress of
Edmond Winchcombe. They had one daughter, Joyce (wife of Edward
Croft). He died in 1482. His widow, Frances, left a will proved in
1483 (P.C.C. 7 Logge).
References:
Nash, Colls. for the Hist. of Worcestershire 1 (1781): 593-594, 601;
2 (1782): 352-353. Chitting & Phillipot, Vis. of Gloucester 1623,
1569 & 1582-3 (H.S.P. 21) (1885): 215-217 (Myll pedigree: "Sr
Will'm Myll Knight. = Frances dau. and one of the heirs to Edmond
Winchcombe."). C.P.R. 1461-1467 (1897): 380, 388, 575. C.P.R.
1467-1477 (1900): 636. C.P.R. 1476-1485 (1901): 578 (1901).
C.P.R. 1476-1485 (1901): 578. Feudal Aids 5 (1908): 319, 325, 329,
333. C.P.R. 1441-1446 (1908): 481. C.P.R. 1452-1461 (1910): 681.
C.P. 2 (1912): 46 (sub Beauchamp). VCH Worcester 3 (1913): 298,
403-404, 534-535; 4 (1924): 251, 329, 332. Wedgwood, Hist. of
Parliament 1 (1936): 773-774 (biog. of Sir Walter Skulle). VCH
Oxford 6 (1959): 9; 8 (1964): 254-255; 9 (1969): 161-162, 166. VCH
Warwick 5 (1949): 148; 6 (1951): 46. Hist. Research, 68 (1995):
241-265.
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