O'hAilche of Tipperary

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O'hAilche of Tipperary

Legg inn av Gjest » 13 jan 2007 06:45:21

I came across a post from March 17, 2004 on the Irish
American List regarding the surname Halley / Hally /
Ally. I am actually a fourth cousin of one of the
persons on the list as we are both descended from
Michael Hawley and Kate English of Aughavanlomaun,
County Tipperary near Newcastle whose family settled
in Outagamie County, Wisconsin.

I agree with the family historian Rev. Patrick Woulfe
that the name is probably of Danish origin and places
their original location near Templemore in Tipperary,
also citing mention of merchants of the name during
later centuries in Cashel and in Killamock, County
Limerick.

I have found this bit of information from the Clan
McLeod website:

"Thus Bálki became Páice (William Matheson, "The
Ancestry of the MacLeods", p. 73) and Helgi became
Ailche (Alfred P. Smyth (1979) Scandinavian York and
Dublin, Volume II pp. 20 & 356; Ailche is a genitive
form)."

See also the website for: "Old Norse Forms of Early
Irish Names"
by Brian M. Scott (Talan Gwynek) where "Ailche" is
equivalent to the Norse "Helgi" meaning holy or
blessed (Old Norse "heilagr").

There were several of the name Helgi for this time
period from Norway and Denmark. I believe that the
name derives from Helgi Magri (Helgi the Lean) from
Norway whose life is recorded in the Laxdaela Saga.
He was the son of Eyvind Eastman and Rafarta, daughter of Kjarval, the
Irish
king of Ossory who has been identified with King
Cearbhall of that time. He and his family later emigrated to
Iceland. This Helgi had a mixed religion believing in
both Christ and in the Norse god Thor.

O'Hart may be correct in saying that O'hAilche is a
branch of O'Kennedy of Ormond descended fron Donncuan
because of the supposed location of the sept as
mentioned by O'Heerin in his continuation of O'Dugan's
Topographical Poem, which O'Hart takes to be in
northern Tipperary and northwest Kilkenny which is in
the Ormond territory of the O'Kennedy clan. They may
have become part of the sept through adoption or some
other means.

In the Annals of Ulster there are several references
to a son of Ailche, Tomar mac Ailche, who was an
independent Viking chieftain of Limerick who was
involved in raiding expeditions in a struggle between
Dublin and Limerick, allying with the Ui Imair
(descendants of Ivar) against Godfrid and Amlaib
(Olafr) of Dublin. One of these raids by Ailche's son
was against the monastery of Clonmacnois in 922 AD.

There were also other septs anglicized Halley, Hally,
and Haly. These include the O'hAinle sept of Clare
with branches in Limerick and Cork (also sometimes
Anglicized as O'Hanly), and the Mulhalls of Waterford
are sometimes Halley in Waterford and Tipperary.
According to O'Hart, the sept of O'hAilgaith in
southern Galway has also been anglicized as Halley or
Hally.

Dan Hawley of Newcastle, County Tipperary has advised
me that he believes that the O'Ailche sept originated
in southern Tipperary near the present location of
Newcastle where many Halley families now live, based
on the fact that Geoffrey Keating grew up just west of
Newcastle and supposedly was of the opinion that the
location of the O'hAilche sept was in that area. This
I have not been able to confirm.

Gjest

Re: O'hAilche of Tipperary

Legg inn av Gjest » 14 jan 2007 00:50:22

On second thought, it is more likely that O'hAilche of Tipperary
descends from a waterford Danish family possibly forced to leave after
the Normans arrived in 1170. Rev. Woulfe indicates that the name is
derived from Danish and means 'English'. Alternatively, if it is
derived from Helgi, there was at that time Helgi the Bold in Denmark.
More likely, the family descends from an ordinary Viking.

Gjest

Re: O'hAilche of Tipperary

Legg inn av Gjest » 18 jan 2007 16:58:20

I have come upon a document called "The "Danes" on Lough
Neagh" by Rev. Dean B. Moody published in the Journal
of the Craigavon Historical Society, Vol. 1 No. 2, (1968)
which I believe answers the question of why Rev.
Woulfe decided that the name was derived from Danish,
and also why he says that the name means "English".
To quote from the doucment:

"In 840, we are told the Vikings pillaged Louth from
Lough Neagh, led some bishops, priests and sages
captive and slew others. The following year they were
still on the Lough; but their activities are not
recorded.

"After this we have no record of Viking activity on
Lough Neagh for nearly a century. In A.D. 928,
however, a fleet of Vikings, led by the son of Ailche,
plundered the islands of Lough Neagh and its borders.
This son of Ailche, whose real name was Gormo Gamle,
was a very active depredator. We hear of him operating
also from the Viking settlement of Limerick. On one
occasion he sailed up the Shannon to Lough Ree and
from there he destroyed Clonmacnois and all the
islands of the lake "and carried off a great spoil
between gold and silver and other treasures." "

Gormo Gamle (the Old) was the first king of all of
Denmark, the name Gorm apparently being from Guthorm
meaning "reverer of the gods". The first history of
this period was written by Adam of Bremen who says
that after Swedes had ruled in Denmark, a certain
individual named Cnut won a victory over the Swedes.
It is speculated that Cnut's father was Sigurd
Snake-in-the-Eye, the last king of the former regime
in Denmark descended from Norse rulers. Gorm was
likely Cnut's son. He married Thyra whom Saxo has as
the daughter of Aethelred I of England and probably a
Christian. Saxo lists another named Gorm as Gorm the
Old's forebear who was called "the Englishman" having
been born in that country. But the time frame is such
that it would be unlikely that there was another Gorm.
Their two children were Cnut and Harald. In the
Jamsviking Saga, both sons become Vikings and plunder
the coasts of England and Ireland. Cnut is killed in
Ireland apparently fulfilling a dream which he had
related to Thyra before she agreed to the marriage.
Harald becomes king after his father's death and
conspires to trap Cnut's only son Gold Harald which he
does after Gold Harald returns with much plunder and
kills the king of Norway for which he is later
executed, thus putting an end to Gorm's royal line.
However, Sigurd's daughter became the mother of
Ragnhild who was the mother of Harald Fairhair of
Norway which would continue the royal line from Cnut's
ancestors, if indeed Cnut was Sigurd's son.



On Jan 13, 3:50 pm, mohearn_brights...@yahoo.com wrote:
On second thought, it is more likely that O'hAilche of Tipperary
descends from a waterford Danish family possibly forced to leave after
the Normans arrived in 1170. Rev. Woulfe indicates that the name is
derived from Danish and means 'English'. Alternatively, if it is
derived from Helgi, there was at that time Helgi the Bold in Denmark.
More likely, the family descends from an ordinary Viking.

Gjest

Re: O'hAilche of Tipperary

Legg inn av Gjest » 18 jan 2007 17:03:16

I have come upon a document called "The "Danes" on Lough
Neagh" by Rev. Dean B. Moody published in the Journal
of the Craigavon Historical Society, Vol. 1 No. 2, (1968)
which I believe answers the question of why Rev.
Woulfe decided that the name was derived from Danish,
and also why he says that the name means "English".
To quote from the doucment:

"In 840, we are told the Vikings pillaged Louth from
Lough Neagh, led some bishops, priests and sages
captive and slew others. The following year they were
still on the Lough; but their activities are not
recorded.

"After this we have no record of Viking activity on
Lough Neagh for nearly a century. In A.D. 928,
however, a fleet of Vikings, led by the son of Ailche,
plundered the islands of Lough Neagh and its borders.
This son of Ailche, whose real name was Gormo Gamle,
was a very active depredator. We hear of him operating
also from the Viking settlement of Limerick. On one
occasion he sailed up the Shannon to Lough Ree and
from there he destroyed Clonmacnois and all the
islands of the lake "and carried off a great spoil
between gold and silver and other treasures." "

Gormo Gamle (the Old) was the first king of all of
Denmark, the name Gorm apparently being from Guthorm
meaning "reverer of the gods". The first history of
this period was written by Adam of Bremen who says
that after Swedes had ruled in Denmark, a certain
individual named Cnut won a victory over the Swedes.
It is speculated that Cnut's father was Sigurd
Snake-in-the-Eye, the last king of the former regime
in Denmark descended from Norse rulers. Gorm was
likely Cnut's son. He married Thyra whom Saxo has as
the daughter of Aethelred I of England and probably a
Christian. Saxo lists another named Gorm as Gorm the
Old's forebear who was called "the Englishman" having
been born in that country. But the time frame is such
that it would be unlikely that there was another Gorm.
Their two children were Cnut and Harald. In the
Jomsviking Saga, both sons become Vikings and plunder
the coasts of England and Ireland. Cnut is killed in
Ireland apparently fulfilling a dream which Gorm had
related to Thyra before she agreed to the marriage.
Harald becomes king after his father's death and
conspires to trap Cnut's only son Gold Harald which he
does after Gold Harald returns with much plunder and
kills the king of Norway for which he is later
executed, thus putting an end to Gorm's royal line.
However, Sigurd's daughter became the mother of
Ragnhild who was the mother of Harald Fairhair of
Norway which would continue the royal line from Gorm's
ancestors, if indeed Cnut was Sigurd's son.



On Jan 13, 3:50 pm, mohearn_brights...@yahoo.com wrote:
On second thought, it is more likely that O'hAilche of Tipperary
descends from a waterford Danish family possibly forced to leave after
the Normans arrived in 1170. Rev. Woulfe indicates that the name is
derived from Danish and means 'English'. Alternatively, if it is
derived from Helgi, there was at that time Helgi the Bold in Denmark.
More likely, the family descends from an ordinary Viking.

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