appropriate page in Caroli Magni Progenies, had only a one line reference to
Heilwig and at first I overlooked her. That is why I said ....once we find a
link....but the link is there, only a questionable link later on remains.
Leo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 3:27 PM
Subject: Fw: Dreux of Mantes, "de prosapia Caroli Magni"
John,
In my humble opinion, you treading dangerous grounds. In my system I
stopped with Gautier who died 992/998 because Schwennicke showed a dotted
line between him and his parents, indicating not to be certain. I think
above that dotted line it is also a stretch to find a link to Charlemagne,
but the dots could cut that line................once we find it..
Charlemagne
/
Louis the Pious
/
Gisla de France (Siegfried Rosch, Caroli Magni Progenies, page 81, shows)
she was born ca.819/822 died after 1 July 874
she married about 836 Markgraf Eberhard von Friaul.
children
1.Eberhard ca.837 died ca.840
2. Ingeltrud/Angiltrud born 837/840 guessed she died after 2 April 840,
nothing is certain about her life. In 1963 K. A. Eckhardt suggested she
could have married Heinrich a Babenberger.
3.Unruoch Duke of Friaul born ca.840 died 874 married Ava of Tours
4.Berengar I ca.840 died 924 married etc
5.Adalhard lived in an abbey at Cysoing
6.Rudolf died 892 also at Cysoing
7. Heilwig----------------------------------the link
8.Gisla a nun
9.Judith
Hedwig/Heilwich/Heiluidis von Friaul (Caroli Magni Progeni page 98)
she died after/about 895
She married (1) Graf Hucbald/Hucbold
she married (2) ca.890 Rotgarius (=Roger I) Count of Laon
By her first husband she had son Radulfus, by the second Rotgarius (Roger
II) and possibly/probably more children.
Schwennicke volum III/4 Tafel 657
Here this Radulfus (and his parents, same as above) are mentioned
Raoul / Radolfus, he married a sister or daughter of EDrmenfried Count of
Amiens
one child shown
Raoul I de Cambrai, Count of Valois, Amiens etc. married Liegardis
Countess of Mantes
and they are possibly/probably the parents of
Gautier de Valois by his second wife father of
Gautier II le Blanc Comte de Mantes, Amiens, Valois etc.married Adele,
their eldest son
Dreux/Drogo Count of Amiens etc. married Goda/Eith of Wessex, their third
son
Raoul, Earl of Hereford died 1057
----------------Raoul, Earl of Hertford, has incredible descendants
George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, William Henry Harrison, Zachary
Taylor, William Howard Taft, Benjamin Harrison, Grover Cleveland, Franklin
Delano Roosevelt, Calvin Coolidge, George Herbert Bush, George Walker
Bush.
Gordon Hale Jr., Tim Powys-Lybbe, Ian Fettes, Don Stone, Brom Nichol Jr.,
Gary Boyd Roberts, Louise Staley, Walter Lee Sheppard Jr., Brice Clagett,
John Ravilious, John Steele Gordon, Merilyn Pedrick, George Andrews
Moriarty, Peter de Loriol, Mike Welsh, Tony Hoskins, James Cummings, Nat
Taylor.
Hope this is of interest,
with best wishes
Leo van de Pas,
Canberra, Australia
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Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 2:38 PM
Subject: Dreux of Mantes, "de prosapia Caroli Magni"
Wednesday, 10 January, 2006
Hello All,
In prior threads discussing the family and ancestry of
Dreux, or Drogo de Mantes (d. 1035), father of Ralph 'the
Timid', Earl of Hereford, it was stated that the parentage of
Dreux's great-grandfather Raoul [I] was unknown. It was
previously understood that his grandmother was 'Heilwig'
[or similar], daughter of Eberhard of Friuli, and thereby that
Raoul and those following were of Carolingian descent.
While my own database currently ends with Raoul [I]'s son
Gautier, or Walter [cf. Europäische Stammtafeln, Tafel III:657],
I noted today a statement by Ordericus Vitalis who wrote in
part,
" Drogo, it was said, was of the stock of Charlemagne,
King of the Franks,... " [1]
I would be interested to hear if there is any further
evidence to hand that correctly describes the descent of this
family from the Carolingians. Ralph 'the Timid', Earl of
Hereford, is the ancestor of the Lords Tregoz [of Ewyas
Harold], and Drogo's brother Raoul 'II' was the
great-grandfather of Adela of Vermandois, wife of Hugh 'Magnus'
Count of Vermandois (d. 1101): the descendants of the latter
are far too numerous to mention, royal and otherwise.
Cheers,
John *
NOTES
[1] Round, Studies in Peerage and Family History (1901),
p. 149. The complete abstract from Orderic reads as
follows, concerning Walter, Drogo's son:
' Walterius Pontesiensium comes, filius Drogonis comitis,
qui cum Rodberto seniore Normannorum duce in Jerusalem ierat
et in illo itinere peregrinus obierat. Drogo, ut dicitur,
erat de prosapia Caroli Magni regis Francorum, eique
sepedictus dux Rodbertus in conjugium dederat consobrinam
suam, Godivam, sororem Edwardi regis Anglorum, ex qua orti
sunt Radulfus et Gauterius Comites et venerandus Fulco
praesul Ambianensium. '
* John P. Ravilious
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