Earl John de Lacy's alleged illegitimate son, Peter of Chest

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Douglas Richardson

Earl John de Lacy's alleged illegitimate son, Peter of Chest

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson » 10 jan 2007 06:45:05

Dear Newsgroup ~

The reputable historian, Diana Greenway, in her excellent series, Fasti
Ecclesiae Anglicanae, 1066-1300, volume 6, published in 1999, pp.
62-65 identifies the medieval cleric, Peter of Chester, Provost of
Beverley, as an illegitimate son of Sir John de Lacy (other known as
John of Chester), Earl of Lincoln, the famous Magna Carta baron. While
it is known that Peter of Chester was illegitimate, his parentage is
less certain. Peter first surfaces in 1235 when he was presented as
rector of Whalley, Lancashire by Earl John de Lacy. Peter was
presumably young at the time, as he survived until 1295.

Surviving records indicate that Peter of Chester occurs as both Peter
of Chester and as Peter de Lacy. On this basis alone, it would seem
clear that he was at least a near kinsman of Earl John de Lacy's
father, Roger of Chester (died 1211), who adopted the Lacy surname.
Roger of Chester (afterwards de Lacy) (died 1211) is known to have had
a younger son, Roger, as well as three younger brothers, Richard of
Chester, living 1202, Eustace of Chester, living 1208-1211, and
Geoffrey of Chester, died 1206. With the possible exception of
Geoffrey of Chester, presumably Peter of Chester could be the
illegitimate son of any of these male members of the Chester/Lacy
family.

Fortunately, new evidence has surfaced which indicates that Peter of
Chester was not the illegitimate son of John de Lacy, Earl of Lincoln
as claimed by Diana Greenway. In a letter to King Henry III of England
dated 1248-1258, Peter of Chester is styled "kinsman and clerk"
[cognatus et clericus] of Edmund de Lacy [Reference: PRO Document, SC
8/270/13488, an abstract of which document is available online at
http://www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk/search.asp). The Edmund
de Lacy in question was the son and heir of Earl John de Lacy. Had
Peter of Chester been Edmund de Lacy's illegitimate brother, the record
should have called him Edmund's brother, not his kinsman. As such, it
would seem that Peter of Chester was more distantly related to Edmund
de Lacy than thought by Dr. Greenway. This discovery is not
particularly surprising, as other than Greenway, all other secondary
sources in print seem to be ambivalent about Peter of Chester's
parentage or make no direct comment.

Interested parties who wish to view original letter to King Henry III
may do so for free at the weblink cited below. Warning: The document
is in medieval Latin.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/docu ... ueryType=1

Also, for interest's sake, I've presented below an account of the life
history of Peter of Chester, Provost of Beverley.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

+ + + + + + + + + + +

PETER DE CHESTER (otherwise DE LACY), king's clerk, of illegitimate
birth. He was presented as Rector of Whalley, Lancashire by John de
Lacy, Earl of Lincoln in 1235. In 1249 he successfully claimed Altham
as a chapel appurtenant to his church of Whalley. Sometime before 1250
Geoffrey de Billlington and Avice his wife conveyed to him land and
wood in Hacking (in Blackburn), Lancashire. In 1251 he was a plaintiff
in a lawsuit against Richard de Whalley. In 1274 Margery widow of Adam
de Henthorn claimed dower in Henthorn, Lancashire against him. He was
collated to prebendary of Huntington 8 Nov. 1277. He was appointed
Provost of Beverley before 1 May 1278. Sometime after 1278, he
released to Adam de Aspden land in Oswaldtwistle, Lancashire which he
had purchased from William de Foxholebank. He was collated to
prebendary of Bugthorpe 5 March 1288 by the Archbishop, which
appointment was subsequently revoked. In 1292, although only a
subdeacon, he held several benefices, but was ordered by the Pope to
resign all of them, except for his posts as Provost of Beverley and
rector of Rudby and Whalley. At an unknown date, he was granted land
in Birtwistle (in Whalley), Lancashire for life. PETER DE CHESTER died
20 Jan. 1294/5.

References:

Whitaker, Hist. of Original Parish of Whalley 1 (1872): 79-81, 241,
footnote 2. VCH Lancaster, 6 (1911): 328, 350, 355-356, 390, 407,
413-414, 509. McDermid, Beverley Minster Fasti (Yorkshire Arch. Soc.
Rec. Ser. 149) (1993): 7. Greenway, Fasti Ecclesiae Anglicanae
1066-1300 6 (1999): 62-65 (identifies Peter of Chester as
illegitimate son of John de Lacy, Earl of Lincoln). Barrow, Fasti
Ecclesiae Anglicanae 1066-1300 8 (2002): 44-45. PRO Document, SC
8/270/13488 (Peter de Chester styled "kinsman and clerk" [cognatus
et clericus] of Edmund de Lacy in letter to King Henry III dated
1248-1258) (abstract of document available online at
http://www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk/search.asp).

Nadine

Re: Earl John de Lacy's alleged illegitimate son, Peter of C

Legg inn av Nadine » 10 jan 2007 22:11:20

Douglas Richardson wrote:
Dear Newsgroup ~


Thanks! Great post!

Douglas Richardson

Another C.P. Addition: Margaret de Lacy, daughter of Earl Jo

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson » 11 jan 2007 16:10:57

Dear Newsgroup ~

It is known that John de Lacy (died 1240), Earl of Lincoln, the famous
Magna Carta baron, had at least one son, Edmund, who succeeded him as
earl, and three daughters. Of the three daughters, the eldest
daughter, Maud de Lacy, was arranged to marry Richard de Clare, Knt.,
Earl of Gloucester in 1237 [Reference: Calendar of Patent Rolls,
1232-1247, pg. 177]. Of the younger two daughters, Complete Peerage
says only that "an order was made in 1243 for the late Earl of
Lincoln's two daughters to be sent to Windsor to be brought up with the
King's daughters" [Reference: Complete Peerage, 7 (1929): 680, footnote
a (sub Lincoln), citing Calendar of Close Rolls, 1242-1247, pg. 54].

The identity of one of two younger Lacy daughters, namely Margaret de
Lacy, can now be established. Research indicates that sometime before
1243 Margaret de Lacy was granted all the lands held in Riby,
Lincolnshire by her maternal grandmother, Hawise de Quincy, Countess of
Lincoln. Sometime after 1240 Margaret de Lacy was also granted a toft
and two oxgangs of land in Riby, Lincolnshire by Aline, widow of
Geoffrey de Thorley. Margaret de Lacy presumably died without issue
sometime before c.1253, when her mother, Margaret, Countess of Lincoln,
granted lands in Riby, Lincolnshire to Walter de Loudham.

References:

PRO Document, DL 25/2408 (grant from Aline de Thorley to Margaret
daughter of John de Lascy late Earl of Lincoln) (abstract of document
available online at
http://www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk/search.asp).

A2A Catalogue, Manuscripts of the Earl Of Ancaster, Reference:
2ANC1/41/3 (grant from Hawise de Quincy, Countess of Lincoln, to her
"niece" [i.e., granddaughter], Margaret, daughter of John de Lacy)
(abstract of document available online at
http://www.a2a.org.uk/search/index.asp).

For interest's sake, I've listed below the numerous 17th Century New
World colonists that descend from John de Lacy (died 1240), Earl of
Lincoln, and his wife, Margaret de Quincy.

Robert Abell, Dannett Abney, Elizabeth Alsop, Samuel Argall, William
Asfordby, Barbara Aubrey, Charles Barham, Charles Barnes, Henry &
Thomas Batte, Anne Baynton, Marmaduke Beckwith, Richard & William
Bernard, Essex Beville, William Bladen, George & Nehemiah Blakiston,
Joseph Bolles, Thomas Booth, Elizabeth Bosvile, Nathaniel Browne, Mary
Bourchier, George, Giles & Robert Brent, Obadiah Bruen, Stephen Bull,
Nathaniel Burrough, Elizabeth Butler, Christopher Calthorpe, Charles
Calvert, Edward Carleton, Kenelm Cheseldine, Grace Chetwode, Jeremy
Clarke, James & Norton Claypoole, William Clopton, St.Leger Codd, Henry
Corbin, Elizabeth Coytemore, James Cudworth, Francis Dade, Humphrey
Davie, Frances, Jane & Katherine Deighton, Anne Derehaugh, Edward
Digges, Thomas Dudley, Rowland Ellis, William Farrer, John Fenwick,
Henry Filmer, John Fisher, Henry Fleete, Edward Foliot, Thomas Gerard,
William Goddard, Muriel Gurdon, Katherine Hamby, Elizabeth & John
Harleston, Elizabeth Haynes, Warham Horsmanden, Anne Humphrey, Henry
Isham, Edmund Jennings, Edmund, Edward, Richard & Matthew Kempe, Mary
Launce, Hannah, Samuel & Sarah Levis, Thomas Ligon, Nathaniel
Littleton, Thomas Lloyd, Anne Lovelace, Henry, Jane & Nicholas Lowe,
Gabriel, Roger & Sarah Ludlow, Thomas Lunsford, Agnes Mackworth, Roger
& Thomas Mallory, Anne, Elizabeth & John Mansfield, Oliver Manwaring,
Anne & Katherine Marbury, Elizabeth Marshall, Anne Mauleverer, Richard
More, Joseph & Mary Need, John Nelson, Philip & Thomas Nelson, Ellen
Newton, Joshua & Rebecca Owen, Thomas Owsley, John Oxenbridge, Richard
Palgrave, Herbert Pelham, Robert Peyton, William & Elizabeth Pole,
Henry & William Randolph, Edward Raynsford, George Reade, William
Rodney, Thomas Rudyard, Katherine Saint Leger, Richard Saltonstall,
Anthony Savage, William Skepper, Diana & Grey Skipwith, Mary Johanna
Somerset, John Stockman, John Throckmorton, Samuel & William Torrey,
John & Lawrence Washington, Jemima Waldegrave, Olive Welby, John West,
Amy Willis, Thomas Wingfield, Mary Wolseley, Hawte Wyatt, George Yate.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Douglas Richardson

Re: Earl John de Lacy's alleged illegitimate son, Peter of C

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson » 11 jan 2007 20:37:24

Dear Newsgroup ~

As a followup to my original post regarding Peter of Chester, who was
styled kinsman and clerk of Edmund de Lacy, I've found the record which
indicates that Peter of Chester was of illegitimate birth.

In an inqusition taken 3 January 1313, the following information is
given:

"... one Robert de Snelleshou, grandfather of Thomas, son of Thomas,
did not die seised of the lands and tenements of Snelleshou, because he
previously sold the same to Sir Peter de Cestria, to hold of the church
of Whalley; that after the death of the said Peter the earl of
Lincoln's bailiffs seised those tenements into the earl's hand; that
after the earl of Lincoln's death they passed into the seisin of the
present Earl of Lancaster ... that Peter de Cestria died without heir
because he was a bastard and the earl entered the premises but only in
order to preserve the right of everyone involved." [Reference: William
Farrer, Lancashire Inquests, Extents, and Feudal Aids, 2 (Lancashire &
Cheshire Record Society 54) (1907): 21].

As we see above, Peter of Chester was styled "Sir" or "dominus" in the
above record, which courtesy title was commonly extended to both
priests and knights in this time periiod. Although it does not say so
directly, the wording of the inquest implies that the Earl of Lioncoln
would have been the next heir to Peter of Chester had Peter not been of
illegitimate birth. The earl in question named in this inquest was
Henry de Lacy, Earl of Lincoln, who died in 1311, which Henry was the
son and heir of Edmund de Lacy, Earl of Lincoln.

For those interested in viewing the actual published record, an
abstract of the above inquisition can be found at the following
weblink:

http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC0 ... Cestria%22

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Douglas Richardson

Re: Earl John de Lacy's alleged illegitimate son, Peter of C

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson » 12 jan 2007 12:19:13

My comments are interspersed below. DR

paul bulkley wrote:
< With reference to Douglas Richardson's claim that
< Peter Lacy (cleric of Whalley Church)was not the son
< of John Lacy.

For starters, this person was principally known as Peter of Chester,
not Peter Lacy. I believe I have seen one instance of him being called
Peter de Lacy. The Chester/Lacy combination is found solely among the
descendants of Roger of Chester (died 1211), who being heir of the Lacy
family, adopted the Lacy surname c. 1194. Hence, Peter of Chester
would almost certainly be a descendant from Roger of Chester (otherwise
known as Roger de Lacy) (died 1211). Roger's four sons, including Earl
John de Lacy, all used the Chester surname.

< This claim is fairly obvious because of the time
< frames involved. Edmund Lacy (son) John Lacy was born
< 1228 - mother Margaret Quincey. John Lacy's first wife
< Alice died osp.
<
< Examine the historical records of Peter and it is
< obvious that he was born 1215-1220.Thus John Lacy has
< to be discounted as the father.

I believe you are off in your dates. Earl John de Lacy (otherwise
known as John of Chester) was of age in 1213. Thus, he would be of the
appropriate age to be the father of Peter of Chester. As such, it
would be incorrect to discount Earl John as Peter's father on the basis
of chronology as you have done.

< Now consider the property and church interest of Peter
< in Blackburnshire. Then go back in the records of the
< Lacy Family (Wightman and Whalley Coucher Dr
< Whittaker)

Why should we do that? You lost me.

< 1143-1177 Henry I Lacy. Henry had two sons. Robert
< 1177-1193 Robert Lacy who died osp and Gilbert.
<
< Whalley Coucher possesses the following information:
<
< 1160 Henry de Lascy grants church of Blackburn with
< Henry de Blackburn cleric. Whittaker stresses that
< this Henry is Lord of Blackburnshire.
< This grant was confirmed by Richard A/B Canterbury
< 1171-1183.

What does any of this have to do with Peter of Chester?

< 1170/75 Geoffrey Buckley (Elder) Dean Whalley married
< daughter of Henry de Lascy
<
< Henry Lacy, as mentioned , had two sons. Robert Lacy
< osp 1193 who handed the honors of Pontefract to his
< sister Aubrey Lisours who in turned handed the honor
< to her grandson Roger who in turn changed his name to
< Lacy.
<
< However there is also Gilbert of whom I possess no
< information. My guess is that Peter Lacy is a
< descendant - probably a grandson of Gilbert.

You lost me again. Why would Peter of Chester be a grandson of
Gilbert, whose surname you don't provide? You have provided no
rationale for your statement.

< Sincerely Yours, Paul Bulkley

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

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