OT? Gerald Ford

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Leo van de Pas

OT? Gerald Ford

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 28 des 2006 01:31:51

I find it sad that no mention has been made about the passing of Gerald Ford, is he not the only vice-president not elected, is he not the only president not elected, which makes him a unique figure. According to my system, he has at least eleven lines to Geoffrey V, Count of Anjou, the man said to have coined the word Plantagenet.

I have him as a descendant of Gateway Ancestors : Judith Lewis, Thomas Lewis, Elizabeth Marshall, Adam Mott.

He is also a descendant of some of the Magna Carta Sureties
Saher de Quincy, Earl of Winchester
Robert de Vere, 3rd Earl of Oxford
Gilbert de Clare, 5th Earl of Hertford, 1st Earl of Gloucester
John de Lacy, 1st Earl of Lincoln
Hugh Bigod, 3rd Earl of Norfolk
William de Mowbray
Richard de Clare, 4th Earl of Hertford
Roger Bigod, 2nd Earl of Norfolk

He is also a descendant of
Jean de Brienne, King of Jerusalem, Latin Emperor of Constantinople
Henry III, King of England
Alfonso IX, King of Leon
Louis VIII, King of France
Alfonso VIII, King of Castile
Philip von Hohenstaufen, Emperor Elect
Llywelyn Fawr, Prince of Wales
Afonso I, King of Portugal
Isaac II Angelos, Emperor of Byzantium
William the Conqueror
Charlemagne
and many more monarchs


Any corrections or additions gratefully accepted.

With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

Gjest

Re: OT? Gerald Ford

Legg inn av Gjest » 28 des 2006 08:58:57

Leo van de Pas wrote:
I find it sad that no mention has been made about the passing of Gerald Ford, is he not the only vice-president not elected, is he not the only president not elected, which makes him a unique figure. According to my system, he has at least eleven lines to Geoffrey V, Count of Anjou, the man said to have coined the word Plantagenet.

I have him as a descendant of Gateway Ancestors : Judith Lewis, Thomas Lewis, Elizabeth Marshall, Adam Mott.



Ive never heard of colonist Adam Mott as having traceable medieval
ancestors,
What are your details on this?

Leslie

Leo van de Pas

Re: OT? Gerald Ford

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 28 des 2006 10:29:45

Dear Leslie,

I think I may use the term Gateway Ancestor different than you do. For me a
Gateway Ancestor is someone (before a certain date) who left Europe for
America. I have no parents for Adam Mott :-(
With best wishes
Leo

----- Original Message -----
From: <lmahler@att.net>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 6:58 PM
Subject: Re: OT? Gerald Ford





Leo van de Pas wrote:
I find it sad that no mention has been made about the passing of Gerald
Ford, is he not the only vice-president not elected, is he not the only
president not elected, which makes him a unique figure. According to my
system, he has at least eleven lines to Geoffrey V, Count of Anjou, the
man said to have coined the word Plantagenet.

I have him as a descendant of Gateway Ancestors : Judith Lewis, Thomas
Lewis, Elizabeth Marshall, Adam Mott.



Ive never heard of colonist Adam Mott as having traceable medieval
ancestors,
What are your details on this?

Leslie


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Nathaniel Taylor

gateway ancestors (was: Gerald Ford)

Legg inn av Nathaniel Taylor » 28 des 2006 13:31:55

In article <mailman.318.1167298190.30800.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>,
"Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au> wrote:

Dear Leslie,

I think I may use the term Gateway Ancestor different than you do. For me a
Gateway Ancestor is someone (before a certain date) who left Europe for
America. I have no parents for Adam Mott :-(

We have been over this many times. Sir Anthony Wagner popularized the
term 'gateway ancestor' to indicate a person who provides descendants in
one population with traceable ancestors in another. For colonial
populations this has most often been used for immigrants who provide
colonial descendants with known (or more narrowly and more commonly,
known noble) ancestors in the old world. To use it for any immigrant
including those whose parentage is unknown is, as you see, misleading to
those who understand the term it its original and common use.

In my own children's ancestry there are several hundred immigrants, only
a small percentage of whom have known parentage. And only a handful of
those with known parents can be called 'gateways' to significant earlier
traceable ancestry.

Nat Taylor
http://www.nltaylor.net

Leo van de Pas

Re: gateway ancestors (was: Gerald Ford)

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 28 des 2006 23:25:47

Dear Nat,

Thanks for steering me towards the original meaning of the term. You do give
me some problems though.

You say (1) Anthony Wagner maintains the term to indicate a person who
provides descendants in one population with traceable ancestors in another.
--------------This would mean every migrant that leaves one country for
another............as long as they have (at least) parents

(2) For colonial populations, gateway ancestors should have known noble
ancestors from the old world.

I am a migrant myself and my shift from Holland to Australia was very easy
but I could see how horrendous the step was for others. Then go back a
hundred years or more when a letter could take months and the reply a
similar amount of time.
In Australia (especially Western Australia) people live almost within memory
of those pioneering ancestors. I have admiration for those people as for
most they went through hardship. I really do not know much about the history
of the USA but think that this "horrendous" time was a fair bit earlier than
in Australia.

This is why I try to honour those migrants, and try to record when and how
they arrived, whether they have known ancestors themselves or not. Wagner
(thank goodness) does not make it a requirement to have their ancestors go
back to medieval times.

In a way you imply I should not mark certain people as Gateway Ancestor
because they have no parents, but as soon as parents appear they are allowed
to be called Gateway Ancestor (according to the Sir Anthony Wagner rules).
In other words they are defacto Gateway Ancestors but should not be called
that because the name(s) of parents is/are missing.

When I started marking these people off, and wanted them to be searchable, I
contemplated coining a new phrase. But decided against this as there was a
perfectly good term already. At first I used Gateway Ancestor also for
Australia, New Zealand and South Africa, but that muddied the waters. Most
people know what Gateway Ancestors are, and Gateway Ancestors just did not
go to those parts of the world, and so I used the term Pioneer for those
countries.

I feel it almost as discrimination to say that you have several hundred
migrant ancestors (presume before say 1700) but you honour only those who
have known parentage and especially those who have significantly traceable
ancestors.

The fact is that all immigrants had parents, grandparents and so on, but for
some we do not know them. Does that make them any less than those whose
ancestry can be traced?

I think the adventure, or horror, those early people went through makes them
equal whether their parents are known or not. In many cases I hope those
unknown parents are found but to me that does not suddenly add to the
migrant him/herself, why should they then suddenly be elevated to Gateway
Ancestor when they already were?

With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia




----- Original Message -----
From: "Nathaniel Taylor" <nathanieltaylor@earthlink.net>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 11:31 PM
Subject: gateway ancestors (was: Gerald Ford)


In article <mailman.318.1167298190.30800.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>,
"Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au> wrote:

Dear Leslie,

I think I may use the term Gateway Ancestor different than you do. For me
a
Gateway Ancestor is someone (before a certain date) who left Europe for
America. I have no parents for Adam Mott :-(

We have been over this many times. Sir Anthony Wagner popularized the
term 'gateway ancestor' to indicate a person who provides descendants in
one population with traceable ancestors in another. For colonial
populations this has most often been used for immigrants who provide
colonial descendants with known (or more narrowly and more commonly,
known noble) ancestors in the old world. To use it for any immigrant
including those whose parentage is unknown is, as you see, misleading to
those who understand the term it its original and common use.

In my own children's ancestry there are several hundred immigrants, only
a small percentage of whom have known parentage. And only a handful of
those with known parents can be called 'gateways' to significant earlier
traceable ancestry.

Nat Taylor
http://www.nltaylor.net

-------------------------------
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quotes in the subject and the body of the message

John H

Leo, a note for you.

Legg inn av John H » 29 des 2006 01:16:02

Leo,
A friend of mine says he sent you an email back in November about sending
you a copy of a book re
"Historical and Genealogical account of the Noble family of Greville and
Earls of Warwick since the Norman conquest etc'
which was written by one Jospeh Edmondson in 1766 for the then present Earl
of Warwick, Francis Greville.

My friend says he thought you may have been interested in having a copy of
the book,
but has never had any reply from you.

I had originally suggested to him to offer a copy of the book to you, for
your genealogics website data,
as there was information in it not on your website.

Did you receive his email or are you just not interested ?
John H

Nathaniel Taylor

Re: gateway ancestors (was: Gerald Ford)

Legg inn av Nathaniel Taylor » 01 jan 2007 03:16:32

In article <mailman.336.1167344772.30800.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>,
"Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au> wrote:

Dear Nat,

Thanks for steering me towards the original meaning of the term. You do give
me some problems though.

The fact is that all immigrants had parents, grandparents and so on, but for
some we do not know them. Does that make them any less than those whose
ancestry can be traced?

I think the adventure, or horror, those early people went through makes them
equal whether their parents are known or not.

I don't think it's slighting to immigrants whose ancestry is currently
unknown (or brief and enodagmous), not to call them gateways, since
'gateway' has an established specific meaning that doesn't apply to them.

Wagner applied the term 'gateway' to individuals whose presence in an
ahnentafel opens up ancestral landscapes not otherwise found in that
ahnentafel. Full stop. Whether such a gateway was, in life, an
intercontinental migrant, is technically irrelevant (though there is a
certain correlation).

We are not talking about which ancestor is better than another, or who
endured greater hardships ("... well, that's nothing: MY ancestors
crossed the galaxy in an old shoe, eating photons to survive ...").
Honoring migrant ancestors is virtually a universal tendency in colonial
populations. But it is misleading to identify migrants by
misappopriating a term coined for a different phenomenon.

Nat Taylor
http://www.nltaylor.net

Leo van de Pas

Re: gateway ancestors (was: Gerald Ford)

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 01 jan 2007 03:43:49

Dear Nat,

You have explained this very well, many thanks. In my data base I already
started to add the word Royal to those Gateways to whom this applied.
Perhaps I should single out the others with medieval ancestors and add the
word medieval to them. The ones with Royal automatically go back to medieval
times. If I do this, in my system, I will have three types of Gateways which
should do justice to all of them. I already dropped the word Ancestor, for
practical reasons.

With best wishes
Leo van de Pas

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nathaniel Taylor" <nathanieltaylor@earthlink.net>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: gateway ancestors (was: Gerald Ford)


In article <mailman.336.1167344772.30800.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>,
"Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au> wrote:

Dear Nat,

Thanks for steering me towards the original meaning of the term. You do
give
me some problems though.

The fact is that all immigrants had parents, grandparents and so on, but
for
some we do not know them. Does that make them any less than those whose
ancestry can be traced?

I think the adventure, or horror, those early people went through makes
them
equal whether their parents are known or not.

I don't think it's slighting to immigrants whose ancestry is currently
unknown (or brief and enodagmous), not to call them gateways, since
'gateway' has an established specific meaning that doesn't apply to them.

Wagner applied the term 'gateway' to individuals whose presence in an
ahnentafel opens up ancestral landscapes not otherwise found in that
ahnentafel. Full stop. Whether such a gateway was, in life, an
intercontinental migrant, is technically irrelevant (though there is a
certain correlation).

We are not talking about which ancestor is better than another, or who
endured greater hardships ("... well, that's nothing: MY ancestors
crossed the galaxy in an old shoe, eating photons to survive ...").
Honoring migrant ancestors is virtually a universal tendency in colonial
populations. But it is misleading to identify migrants by
misappopriating a term coined for a different phenomenon.

Nat Taylor
http://www.nltaylor.net

-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
GEN-MEDIEVAL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Nathaniel Taylor

Re: gateway ancestors (was: Gerald Ford)

Legg inn av Nathaniel Taylor » 01 jan 2007 03:53:17

In article <mailman.553.1167619440.30800.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>,
"Leo van de Pas" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au> wrote:

Dear Nat,

You have explained this very well, many thanks. In my data base I already
started to add the word Royal to those Gateways to whom this applied.
Perhaps I should single out the others with medieval ancestors and add the
word medieval to them. The ones with Royal automatically go back to medieval
times. If I do this, in my system, I will have three types of Gateways which
should do justice to all of them. I already dropped the word Ancestor, for
practical reasons.

Perhaps, but this implies that you're still referring to immigrants
generically as 'gateways'. Those with unknown ancestry are of course
not gateways in the genealogical sense coined by Wagner--rather they're
the antithesis of a gateway. Such people I would simply flag as
'immigrants'.

Nat Taylor
http://www.nltaylor.net

Gjest

Re: OT? Gerald Ford

Legg inn av Gjest » 01 jan 2007 17:57:00

In answer to your original question, using Gary Boyd Roberts' Ancestry
of American Presidents, Ford's royal gateway ancestors were:

Thomas and Elizabeth (Marshall) Lewis (confirmed)
Thomas Newberry (Ford is a proven descendant, Newberry's royal descent
is unproven)
Thomas and Elizabeth (Marshall) Trowbridge (Ford's descent from him is
yet to be fully proven).
Adam Mott (Ford does descend from him as does Harding, but he is not of
royal descent. He has been confused with Adam Mott of Long Island, see
TAG 35:107.

On Dec 27 2006, 7:31 pm, "Leo van de Pas" <leovd...@netspeed.com.au>
wrote:
I find it sad that no mention has been made about the passing of Gerald Ford, is he not the only vice-president not elected, is he not the only president not elected, which makes him a unique figure. According to my system, he has at least eleven lines to Geoffrey V, Count of Anjou, the man said to have coined the word Plantagenet.

I have him as a descendant of Gateway Ancestors : Judith Lewis, Thomas Lewis, Elizabeth Marshall, Adam Mott.

He is also a descendant of some of the Magna Carta Sureties
Saher de Quincy, Earl of Winchester
Robert de Vere, 3rd Earl of Oxford
Gilbert de Clare, 5th Earl of Hertford, 1st Earl of Gloucester
John de Lacy, 1st Earl of Lincoln
Hugh Bigod, 3rd Earl of Norfolk
William de Mowbray
Richard de Clare, 4th Earl of Hertford
Roger Bigod, 2nd Earl of Norfolk

He is also a descendant of
Jean de Brienne, King of Jerusalem, Latin Emperor of Constantinople
Henry III, King of England
Alfonso IX, King of Leon
Louis VIII, King of France
Alfonso VIII, King of Castile
Philip von Hohenstaufen, Emperor Elect
Llywelyn Fawr, Prince of Wales
Afonso I, King of Portugal
Isaac II Angelos, Emperor of Byzantium
William the Conqueror
Charlemagne
and many more monarchs

Any corrections or additions gratefully accepted.

With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

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