Fw: Sir Edmund son of Henry, King of England, not Edmund Cro

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Leo van de Pas

Fw: Sir Edmund son of Henry, King of England, not Edmund Cro

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 27 des 2006 22:14:46

----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Richardson" <royalancestry@msn.com>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval,soc.history.medieval
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 3:42 AM
Subject: Sir Edmund son of Henry, King of England, not Edmund Crouchback


Dear Merilyn ~

In your 7th Descent, you refer to Edmund "Crouchback" of Lancaster,
born 1244.

Actually, this popular royal prince was never known as Edmund
"Crouchback," nor was he hunchbacked.
-------------The Black Prince (during his life) also was not known by his

nickname.

I thought that it was known generally that "Crouchback" really should be
"Crossed Back" as he received the Crusader Cross when he went on Crusade

Isn't it a bit pedantic to criticise someone for using a generally accepted
nickname applied after the life of a person?
There have been more people in history who later on received a nickname by
which they became known: Charlemagne, William the Conqueror, all except one
of the Plantagenet family.

I also understand that Pope Alexander III in 1255 conferred the title of
King of Sicily on the then 10-year-old. As his father did not have the money
or men to to support Edmund, in 1263 the title was renounced. In other words
he could be regarded as King for an eight year period.

With best wishes
Leo van de Pas,
Canberra, Australia


The erroneous nickname
"Crouchback" is based on a false legend generated years after Edmund's
death by John of Gaunt and his son, Henry [afterwards King Henry IV].
For particulars of this curious matter, see Given-Wilson, Chronicles of
the Revolution, 1399-1400 (1993): 195-196, which provides excerpts
from John Hardyng's chronicle explaining the origin of false legend
that Edmund, Earl of Lancaster, was hunchbacked. See also Hicks,
Who's Who in Late Medieval England (1991): 7-9 (biog. of Edmund
Crouchback), who explains that "the epithet 'Crouchback'... is
not given to him by any contemporary chronicler... for all that we know
of him points to his having been both handsome and skilled in
arms."). For a description of Edmund's winning personality, see Coat
of Arms 10 (1969): 260-275 ("... was of a gay and pleasant
disposition... a generous and popular prince, observant in religion
like all his family and a keen business man in the management of his
vast estates").

Edmund's usual style in contemporary records was "Sir Edmund, son of
Henry, king of England" or "Sir Edmund, the King's son"
[References: Giffard, Reg. of Walter Giffard Lord Archbishop of York
1266-1279 (Surtees Soc. 109) (1904): 65; Romeyn, Reg. of John le
Romeyn Lord Archbishop of York 1286-1296 1 (Surtees Soc. 123) (1913):
134].

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Merilyn Pedrick wrote:
Dear James
Again, according to my PAF programme, he has 12 descents from
Geoffrey. But
I suppose that if and when more Cudworth ancestors are revealed,
there will
be more descents.
Merilyn

7th Descent

4. Henry III, King of England, b. 1207
5. Edmund "Crouchback" of Lancaster, b. 1244
6. Prince Henry, Earl of Lancaster etc. (see #7, 3rd Descent above)


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