Offspring of King Robert II "le Pieux" of France (972 - 1031

Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper

Svar
Gjest

Offspring of King Robert II "le Pieux" of France (972 - 1031

Legg inn av Gjest » 19 des 2006 01:34:01

What is the present consensus, please, as to the certain identities of the
children of Robert II and Constance d'Arles? I have:

AVOYE/Hadvise - (b. 1003 - d. aft. 1063)
married 1028 Count Renaud I de Nevers (1000 - 1040)

HUGH "the Great" (1007 - 1025)
married HAWISA (Elisabeth) d'Avoye

King HENRY I (1008 - 1060)
married 1051 ANNA (Agnesa) Yaroslavna/nia of Kiev (1036-1089)
married Mathilde de Franconie
married Mathilde de Frise

ADELHEID/Adela/Alix (b. btwn. 1009-1014 - d. 1079)
married 1026 RICHARD III, Duke of Normandy
married 1028 BALDWIN V "the Pious" de Lille, Count of Flanders
(1012 - 1067)

ROBERT I "the Old", Duke of Burgundy (c. 1011 - 1076)
married c.1033 Princess HELIE de Semur-en-Brionnais
(1015 - 1079)

ODO/Eudo, Bishop of Auxerre (c.1013 - 1056)

CONSTANCE (b. btwn 1014-1018 - d. 1042)
married MANASSES de Montdidier, Count de Dammartin
(984 - 1037)

BEATRIX (1015 - c.1072)

Is this accurate and complete?

Thank you for your time,

Mardi

Peter Stewart

Re: Offspring of King Robert II "le Pieux" of France (972 -

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 19 des 2006 09:33:02

Comments interspersed:

<MardiM2@aol.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.4.1166488344.30800.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...
What is the present consensus, please, as to the certain identities of
the
children of Robert II and Constance d'Arles? I have:

AVOYE/Hadvise - (b. 1003 - d. aft. 1063)
married 1028 Count Renaud I de Nevers (1000 - 1040)

It has been debated whether she was the daughter or sister of Robert II, as
the sources are at variance on this - for instance, the annals of Vézelay
descriebs her as Robert's sister in recording her marriage under 1002, yet
name her as his daughter in a later addition under 1031 that contains
inaccuracies apart from this. It seems rather more plausible that she was
his daughter, as otherwise Hugo Capet must have had two daughters with the
same name; however, if so she must have been born from his illicit marriage
to Bertha of Burgundy in order to have been even a young child in 1002, or
else the earlier entry in the annals must be wrong about the date.

HUGH "the Great" (1007 - 1025)
married HAWISA (Elisabeth) d'Avoye

Hugo was called "Magnus" after his great-grandfather rather than from any
personal quality of his own. He was born before 9 June 1007, as he was
reportedly 10 years old when crowned as associate king on this date in 1017.
He died on 28 August (or 17 September by one account) in 1025, unmarried.

King HENRY I (1008 - 1060)
married 1051 ANNA (Agnesa) Yaroslavna/nia of Kiev (1036-1089)
married Mathilde de Franconie
married Mathilde de Frise

Henry was born before 17 May 1008, became duke of Burgundy by 1016 and was
crowned on 2 June 1028. A marriage was arranged ca 1033 between him and
Mathilde, daughter of Emperor Konrad II and Gisela of Swabia, but this was
not fulfilled as she died in January 1034 still in Germany. His first wife
properly so called was her namesake, daughter of Liudolf of Brunswick,
margrave of Frisia & Gertrud of Egisheim, whom Henry amrried in 1034. She
died following a caesarian section in February 1044 or 1045. The second wife
was Anna (or Agnesa) Yarolsavna of Kiev, married on 19 May 1051. She died on
15 September between 1075 & 1078, having married again after King Henry's
death on 4 (or possibly 5) August 1060.

ADELHEID/Adela/Alix (b. btwn. 1009-1014 - d. 1079)
married 1026 RICHARD III, Duke of Normandy
married 1028 BALDWIN V "the Pious" de Lille, Count of Flanders
(1012 - 1067)

She did not marry Richard III of Normandy, whose wife Adela was someone else
of unknown family - see the archive for discussion of this. She was born ca
1013/15, brought up from childhood in Flanders as the future wife of the
count's heir, and married to Balduin of Flanders in 1028, perhaps in
January, when his own teenage concupiscence had reportedly become so
pressing that it could not be put off any longer. It is inconceivable that
the count of Flanders would have relinquished such a prize bride, raised in
his own family, in favour of his hereditary enemy in Normandy, much less
that he would have got her back unexpectedly as a widow just in time for a
hast wedding.

ROBERT I "the Old", Duke of Burgundy (c. 1011 - 1076)
married c.1033 Princess HELIE de Semur-en-Brionnais
(1015 - 1079)

Robert was born ca 1012, becoming duke of Burgundy on his father's death in
July 1031. He married Helya (aka Evella and Petronilla) of Semur ca 1033 and
repudiated her between 1046 & January 1055 after which she became a nun. He
then married Ermerngarde (aka Blanche), countess of Anjou, despite
prohibition due to their consanguinity. They were killed together in March
1076.

ODO/Eudo, Bishop of Auxerre (c.1013 - 1056)

Robert II's son Odo was apparently backward, if not an idiot, a nuisance in
his family and a non-entity outside it: he certainly did not become a bishop
however suitable that office may have been for such a man. He died on a 15
May in or after 1056.

CONSTANCE (b. btwn 1014-1018 - d. 1042)
married MANASSES de Montdidier, Count de Dammartin
(984 - 1037)

This is a highly implausible conjecture that ought to be dismissed - see the
archive for further details. The family background of Countess Constance of
Dammartin is unknown. Her name may or may not have been chosen to compliment
Queen Constance (we don't know when she was born), but there is no evidence
that she was her daughter.

BEATRIX (1015 - c.1072)

This one is also imaginary, there is no contemporary record of a daughter
named Beatrix.

Is this accurate and complete?

More than complete, the list has some to spare and the accuracy is less than
adequate for the rest - I suggest that you would do better to discard the
source of your information.

Peter Stewart

Gjest

Re: Offspring of King Robert II "le Pieux" of France (972 -

Legg inn av Gjest » 20 des 2006 04:36:26

Peter Stewart wrote:
Comments interspersed:

HUGH "the Great" (1007 - 1025)
married HAWISA (Elisabeth) d'Avoye

Hugo was called "Magnus" after his great-grandfather rather than from any
personal quality of his own. He was born before 9 June 1007, as he was
reportedly 10 years old when crowned as associate king on this date in 1017.
He died on 28 August (or 17 September by one account) in 1025, unmarried.

Old French "Magne" does not mean "Magnus" but "the Young," which is why
this nickname is often found in the Capetian dynasty, always for
younger sons given ancestral names.

Jean Coeur de Lapin

Peter Stewart

Re: Offspring of King Robert II "le Pieux" of France (972 -

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 20 des 2006 05:14:12

<atsarisborn@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1166585786.275933.10270@80g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
Peter Stewart wrote:
Comments interspersed:

HUGH "the Great" (1007 - 1025)
married HAWISA (Elisabeth) d'Avoye

Hugo was called "Magnus" after his great-grandfather rather than from any
personal quality of his own. He was born before 9 June 1007, as he was
reportedly 10 years old when crowned as associate king on this date in
1017.
He died on 28 August (or 17 September by one account) in 1025, unmarried.

Old French "Magne" does not mean "Magnus" but "the Young," which is why
this nickname is often found in the Capetian dynasty, always for
younger sons given ancestral names.

This rationale is often given, but the trouble is that it was worked up to
explain the byname as used for Hugo Magnus, count of Vermandois, who was
indeed a younger son (of King Henri I) and not in the least "great" or
"grand" in any personal sense.

However, this fails to account for its prior use in the same lineage for
both Hugo Magnus, duke of the Franks (died 956), the only son of King Robert
I, and Hugo Magnus (died 1025), the eldest son of King Robert II.

The byname "Magnus" was clearly associated with the given name Hugo in the
Robertian/Capetian onomastic, and its original meaning for the first ebarer
was presumably "le Grand" - by the way, he was also known as "Albus" (the
White).

Peter Stewart

Svar

Gå tilbake til «soc.genealogy.medieval»