Early Comtes de Boulogne

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alden@mindspring.com

Early Comtes de Boulogne

Legg inn av alden@mindspring.com » 17 des 2006 20:53:12

Charles Cawley in Medieval Lands shows:

A. COMTES de BOULOGNE (FLANDERS)


ADALOLF 918-933, ARNOUL -972, GUY, BAUDOUIN



ADALOLF [Æthelwulf] of Flanders, son of BAUDOUIN II Count of Flanders
& his wife Ælfthryth of Wessex (after [893/99]-13 Nov 933, bur
Monastery of St Pierre). The Genealogica Arnulfi Comitis names (in
order) "Arnulfum, fratrem eius Adelulfum" as the two sons of
"Balduinus"[70]. "Adalolphus" is named son of Count Baudouin II in the
Cartulaire de Saint-Bertin, which specifies that he succeeded his
father in 918 as ADALOLF Comte de Boulogne, de Thérouanne, and
lay-Abbot of St Bertin[71]. The Annales Blandinienses record the death
in 933 of "Adalulfus comes", specifying that he was buried "in
monasterio sancti Petri"[72]. The De Arnulfo Comite records that
"Adalulfi...uterinus frater Arnulfi magni" was killed by his own
swineherd in a wood[73]. After his death in 933, his brother Arnoul I
Count of Flanders seized the Boulonnais and Ternois, disinheriting his
nephews[74].

m ---. The name of the wife of Comte Adalolf is not known.

Comte Adalolf & his wife had two children:

1. son (-962 before Sep).

2. ARNOUL de Boulogne (-after 31 Jan 972). "Arnulfus nepos
ipsius comitis [Arnulfi]" is named in the Cartulaire de
Saint-Bertin[75]. Lothaire IV King of the West Franks installed him as
ARNOUL Comte de Boulogne et du Ternois[76].

a) GUY de Boulogne . In the early 1000s, Baudouin IV Count
of Flanders established control over the northern part of the Ternois,
including Thérouanne, Fauquembergues and Saint-Omer, previously under
the suzerainty of the county of Boulogne[77], while the southern part
ultimately became the county of Saint-Pol. m ---.

i) BAUDOUIN de Boulogne (-1033). m as her first husband,
ALEIDA [van Westfriesland], daughter of [ARNULF Graf van Westfriesland
[Holland] & his wife Liutgard de Luxembourg]. She is named as the
possible daughter of Arnulf, and her two marriages shown, in
Europäische Stammtafeln[78] but the basis for this speculation is not
known. She married secondly Enguerrand Avoué de Saint-Riquier.

(a) EUSTACHE de Boulogne (-[1049]). Comte de Boulogne 1042.

- see below.

b) ERNICULE de Boulogne . m ---.

i) ARNOUL de Boulogne . The Historia Comitum Ghisnensium
names "Ernulpho...et Eustacio" as the two sons of "Bolonie
comitem...Erniculum"[79].

ii) EUSTACHE de Boulogne . The Historia Comitum
Ghisnensium names "Ernulpho...et Eustacio" as the two sons of "Bolonie
comitem...Erniculum"[80].

iii) MATHILDE de Boulogne . The Historia Comitum
Ghisnensium names "Bolonie comitis Erniculi filiam Mathildem" as wife
of "Ardolphus"[81]. m ARDOLF Comte de Guines, son of SIEGFRIED Comte
de Guines & his wife Elstrude de Flandre (966-).

Comte Adalolf had one illegitimate son by an unknown mistress:

3. BAUDOUIN [Baldzo] (-973). The De Arnulfo Comite names
"Balduino cognamento Baldzoni...filius Adalulfi...ex concubina",
specifying that he was guardian of the infant Arnoul II Count of
Flanders, having previously been adopted by Count Arnoul I after his
father was killed[82]. He was appointed Regent of Flanders in 964 on
the accession of Arnoul II Count of Flanders. Taking advantage of the
weakness of the county during the minority of the count, he made
himself Comte de Courtrai[83]. He donated "villam Traslingehem" to
the abbey of St Pieter[84]. The Annales Blandinienses record the death
in 973 of "Balzo filius Rodulfi comitis"[85], presumably an error for
"Adalolfi" as no "Rodulfi comes" has been identified. The Annales
Formoselenses also record the death in 973 of "Balzo, filius Rodulfi
comitis"[86].

Has a consensus been reached about the realtionships between these
early members of this family. I have seen various relationships
proposed.

Doug Smith

Peter Stewart

Re: Early Comtes de Boulogne

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 18 des 2006 03:59:01

<alden@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:1166385192.797944.66400@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Charles Cawley in Medieval Lands shows:

<copied data snipped>

Has a consensus been reached about the realtionships between these
early members of this family. I have seen various relationships
proposed.

And that, surely, suggests a consensus has not been reached.

The material from Medieval Lands is the usual Cawley farrago, with sources
ill-chosen, ill-understood and ill-used. Legendary persons and occurrences
and mixed up with historical fact, more-or-less accurately reported from the
few sources found but not necessarily accurate in them in the first place,
so that the whole is erratic, pretentious, quite worthless.

As for a consensus, there is not enough information available about the
early counts of Boulogne to achieve a meaningful one. The most recent
scholarly remarks that I have come across on this suject are in _Un pouvoir
comtale entre Flandre et France: Saint-Pol, 1000-1300_ by Jean-François
Nieus, Bibliothèque du Moyen Âge 23 (Brussels, 2005), where the same point
is made (p. 36). The history and genealogy of the counts of Boulogne can be
traced down from Eustace I, who married a daughter of Lambert I of Louvain,
but not with any certainty back from him.

Stewart Baldwin knows far more about this than I do, and he may care to
discuss the subject in detail - but I hope not, as I think this would set an
unfortunate precedent and we would probably get many more similar dumps of
stuff from Medieval Lands with requests for comment. This website may be
beguiling for new starters in the field, but it is even less reliable than
ES that it is based on - introducing many errors from the compiler's
incompetence - and it is not worth anyone's time to go over.

Peter Stewart

alden@mindspring.com

Re: Early Comtes de Boulogne

Legg inn av alden@mindspring.com » 19 des 2006 01:46:32

Thanks Peter

That is what I had read before about the early Counts of Boulogne, but
I wanted to make sure I hadn't missed anything. Thanks for the
reference. I will look it up.

Doug

Stewart Baldwin

Re: Early Comtes de Boulogne

Legg inn av Stewart Baldwin » 19 des 2006 17:55:30

On 17 Dec 2006 11:53:12 -0800, "alden@mindspring.com"
<alden@mindspring.com> wrote:

Has a consensus been reached about the realtionships between these
early members of this family. I have seen various relationships
proposed.

There were some very detailed discussions about this topic in this
newsgroup in September of 2004. I suggest you go to the archives and
look at the messages posted at that time.

Stewart Baldwin

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