Of course I do not intend to throw caution to the wind altogether, but if
you have two ways of counting generations, and one is solid (counting back
from Gilbert Fitz Reinfrid) while the other (counting down from Ivo) looks
speculative, then the preference seems clear. Just to state was has often
been said on this list once more, it appears that Ivo might even have been
younger than Elred of Workington, and so on.
It was in my mind when I wrote that it is also very unlikely that the father
of William II de Lancastre was in Domesday. Wouldn't you agree? It would be
great if his grandfather Gilbert, the husband of Godith, was in there, but I
don't think so, meaning that we have to go back to his great grand father's
generation at least. And we don't really know who his great grand father
was.
Best Regards
Andrew
===
From: "taf" <farmerie@interfold.com>
Subject: Re: Keats-Rohan on the Fitz Reinfrids
Date: 3 Dec 2006 22:40:48 -0800
References: <mailman.16.1165059827.30317.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
In-Reply-To: <mailman.16.1165059827.30317.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
1. I think the generational problem counting from Ivo can be ignored,
because I think it very hard to deny that enormous doubts exist about the
claim found in some non-contemporary records that there was a simple and
known descent from Ivo down to William I de Lancaster. There may be a
relationship, but I think we have to assume that we don't know what it is.
It may be the case that those sources trying to make him grandson of
Ivo are flakey, but that doesn't mean we can just throw caution to the
wind and ignore chronology all together. William lived much later than
Ivo, and hence much later than Ivo's underling.
What is known is that Roger Fitz Reinfrid must have been about the same
generation as William II de Lancaster. Therefore it is quite possible,
starting from what we know best, that the latest that Reinfrid himself
could
have lived would have been in the generation of William I de Lancastre.
Indeed I guess it is likely that this was his generation?
Roger Fitz Reinfrid was a justice sitting for a fine in 1187 and is
said to have lived as late as 1199. It is highly unlikely that his
father was a Domesday holder.