Dear List
In a post from November 2005, Todd Farmerie remarks upon some Keats Rohan
comments, and I just noticed it. Could people check my thinking?
==
From: "Todd A. Farmerie" <farmerie@interfold.com>
Subject: Re: Reinfrid Update.. Most Interesting
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 16:42:50 -0700
Keats-Rohan reporst a Rainfrid de Bretteville, who was a Domesday tennant of
Ivo. He left an heir Alfred who was ancestor of the Glentham
family. (And before you jump to conclusions, The father of Roger would be
the same generation as William de Lancaster I, supposed to be
grandson of Ivo, so this cannot very easily be Roger's father.
Likewise, she reports that Roger filius Rainfridi was brother of Walter de
Coutances, Archbishop of Rouen, although the basis for this is
unclear - again, hardly a batch of nobodies.
===
1. I think the generational problem counting from Ivo can be ignored,
because I think it very hard to deny that enormous doubts exist about the
claim found in some non-contemporary records that there was a simple and
known descent from Ivo down to William I de Lancaster. There may be a
relationship, but I think we have to assume that we don't know what it is.
What is known is that Roger Fitz Reinfrid must have been about the same
generation as William II de Lancaster. Therefore it is quite possible,
starting from what we know best, that the latest that Reinfrid himself could
have lived would have been in the generation of William I de Lancastre.
Indeed I guess it is likely that this was his generation?
2. If Roger's brother was an Archbishop in Rouen, I guess this makes it
likely or at least possible that the original Reinfrid did not live in
England, but rather in Normandy? Mind you, a tennant of Ivo de Taillebois
with a name "de Bretteville" sounds like a person with residences in
Normandy and England, which is perhaps most likely?
Best Regards
Andrew Lancaster
Keats-Rohan on the Fitz Reinfrids
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Gjest
Re: Keats-Rohan on the Fitz Reinfrids:Bravo
Good Morning,
I am glad to see that posts about Ivo, the FitzReinfrids and the
Lancasters from about this time last year and some of the suppositions
that were posted are still being investigated and challenged!!! There
is more than meets the eye here. Much more!!!
Best Regards,
Emmett
Andrew and Inge wrote:
I am glad to see that posts about Ivo, the FitzReinfrids and the
Lancasters from about this time last year and some of the suppositions
that were posted are still being investigated and challenged!!! There
is more than meets the eye here. Much more!!!
Best Regards,
Emmett
Andrew and Inge wrote:
Dear List
In a post from November 2005, Todd Farmerie remarks upon some Keats Rohan
comments, and I just noticed it. Could people check my thinking?
==
From: "Todd A. Farmerie" <farmerie@interfold.com
Subject: Re: Reinfrid Update.. Most Interesting
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 16:42:50 -0700
Keats-Rohan reporst a Rainfrid de Bretteville, who was a Domesday tennant of
Ivo. He left an heir Alfred who was ancestor of the Glentham
family. (And before you jump to conclusions, The father of Roger would be
the same generation as William de Lancaster I, supposed to be
grandson of Ivo, so this cannot very easily be Roger's father.
Likewise, she reports that Roger filius Rainfridi was brother of Walter de
Coutances, Archbishop of Rouen, although the basis for this is
unclear - again, hardly a batch of nobodies.
===
1. I think the generational problem counting from Ivo can be ignored,
because I think it very hard to deny that enormous doubts exist about the
claim found in some non-contemporary records that there was a simple and
known descent from Ivo down to William I de Lancaster. There may be a
relationship, but I think we have to assume that we don't know what it is.
What is known is that Roger Fitz Reinfrid must have been about the same
generation as William II de Lancaster. Therefore it is quite possible,
starting from what we know best, that the latest that Reinfrid himself could
have lived would have been in the generation of William I de Lancastre.
Indeed I guess it is likely that this was his generation?
2. If Roger's brother was an Archbishop in Rouen, I guess this makes it
likely or at least possible that the original Reinfrid did not live in
England, but rather in Normandy? Mind you, a tennant of Ivo de Taillebois
with a name "de Bretteville" sounds like a person with residences in
Normandy and England, which is perhaps most likely?
Best Regards
Andrew Lancaster
-
taf
Re: Keats-Rohan on the Fitz Reinfrids
Andrew and Inge wrote:
It may be the case that those sources trying to make him grandson of
Ivo are flakey, but that doesn't mean we can just throw caution to the
wind and ignore chronology all together. William lived much later than
Ivo, and hence much later than Ivo's underling.
Roger Fitz Reinfrid was a justice sitting for a fine in 1187 and is
said to have lived as late as 1199. It is highly unlikely that his
father was a Domesday holder.
Reinfrid was certainly not a unique name. It takes more than just
finding someone whose given name matches a patronymic of someone 100
years later to make a genealogical connection.
taf
Dear List
In a post from November 2005, Todd Farmerie remarks upon some Keats Rohan
comments, and I just noticed it. Could people check my thinking?
==
From: "Todd A. Farmerie" <farmerie@interfold.com
Subject: Re: Reinfrid Update.. Most Interesting
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 16:42:50 -0700
Keats-Rohan reporst a Rainfrid de Bretteville, who was a Domesday tennant of
Ivo. He left an heir Alfred who was ancestor of the Glentham
family. (And before you jump to conclusions, The father of Roger would be
the same generation as William de Lancaster I, supposed to be
grandson of Ivo, so this cannot very easily be Roger's father.
Likewise, she reports that Roger filius Rainfridi was brother of Walter de
Coutances, Archbishop of Rouen, although the basis for this is
unclear - again, hardly a batch of nobodies.
===
1. I think the generational problem counting from Ivo can be ignored,
because I think it very hard to deny that enormous doubts exist about the
claim found in some non-contemporary records that there was a simple and
known descent from Ivo down to William I de Lancaster. There may be a
relationship, but I think we have to assume that we don't know what it is.
It may be the case that those sources trying to make him grandson of
Ivo are flakey, but that doesn't mean we can just throw caution to the
wind and ignore chronology all together. William lived much later than
Ivo, and hence much later than Ivo's underling.
What is known is that Roger Fitz Reinfrid must have been about the same
generation as William II de Lancaster. Therefore it is quite possible,
starting from what we know best, that the latest that Reinfrid himself could
have lived would have been in the generation of William I de Lancastre.
Indeed I guess it is likely that this was his generation?
Roger Fitz Reinfrid was a justice sitting for a fine in 1187 and is
said to have lived as late as 1199. It is highly unlikely that his
father was a Domesday holder.
2. If Roger's brother was an Archbishop in Rouen, I guess this makes it
likely or at least possible that the original Reinfrid did not live in
England, but rather in Normandy? Mind you, a tennant of Ivo de Taillebois
with a name "de Bretteville" sounds like a person with residences in
Normandy and England, which is perhaps most likely?
Reinfrid was certainly not a unique name. It takes more than just
finding someone whose given name matches a patronymic of someone 100
years later to make a genealogical connection.
taf