Saturday, 25 November, 2006
Hello All,
An interesting charter of Pharamus de Boulogne recites his
descent from Eustace II, count of Boulogne, and further evidences
the existence of two siblings, Eustace and Simon [1]. Aside from
the de Fiennes descent from Pharamus himself, and those evidently
from his sister [allegedly named Rohese and wife (or at least one of
the wives) of Richard de Lucy], no other proven descent has been
noted to date from Geoffrey de Boulogne.
There are records in the chartulary of the abbey of Muchelney
which indicate a probable descent from this family, and very
possibly from one of the known siblings of Pharamus de Boulogne.
These three charters (and the notes to same) are as follows:
' 54. Charter of Ralph de Vaus concerning 12d. to be received
at the chapel of the infirmary and 12d. to the use of the
sick at Bradeweye.
Grant by Ralph de Vaus to the church of Muchelney for the
safety of his soul and the souls of his ancestors and successors,
in pure alms, of 2s., to be received yearly at Christmas at
Bradeweye from the 20s. of his farm which Thomas de Bollonia
is bound to pay to him yearly for the said land of Bradeweye,
viz., 12d. to maintain the light of the chapel of the infirmary
of the same place, and 12d. for the sick of the same infirmary.
' 55. Charter to Thomas de Bolonia concering the said two
shillings.
Notification to Thomas de Bolonia by Ralph de Vallibus
of his grant to the monks of Muchelney of 2s. to be received
yearly from his farm of Bradeweye.
' 56. Charter of Faramus de Bolonia concerning the said two
shillings.
Attornment by Faramus de Bolonia, son of Thomas de Bolonia,
to Richard le Dare, of Mideltone, to pay yearly to the monks
of Muchelney for their infirmary, 4s., to wit, 2s. of his own
gift, and 2s. of the gift of Ralph de Vallibus, for which he
is bound to acquit the same Ralph for the land of Bradweye,
which he and his heirs hold of him. ' [2]
In addition to the notes made by Rev. Bates concerning these
charters, the name Pharamus in the Boloygne (or similarly spelled)
family indicates a strong probability of this descent. If the
tenure of these lands in Somerset continued beyond the 14th century,
there may be an extended male-line descent from the Counts of
Boulogne, and allegedly (if proven) from the first Counts of
Flanders (9th and 10th century).
Should anyone have further information concerning this family,
that would be of great interest.
Cheers,
John *
[NOTE: the following chart contains conjectured relationships,
indicate thus: :........ ]
1) Goda of = Eustace II = 2) Ida of ~ NN
England count of Boulogne I Lorraine I
d. 1093 I m. 1057 I
_____________________________I__ I _ _ _
I I I I
Eustace III Godfrey Baldwin Geoffrey
count of 'of Bouillon' K of de Boulogne
Boulogne "King" of Jerusalem of Carshalton
= Mary of Jerusalem d. 1118 d. aft 1086
Scotland d. 1100 = Beatrix de
I Mandeville
V I
I
William
of Carshalton
d. ca. 1130
I
___________________________________________________I__
I I I I
Pharamus a dau. (Rohese ?) Eustace Simon
of Carshalton, = Richard de : :
Surrey and Lucy (d. 1179) : :
Magdalen Laver, I :.........:
Essex; seigneur V :
de Tingry :
d. aft 1158 = Matilda :
__________I_________ :
I I :
William Sybil Thomas
d.s.p. (heiress) de Bolonia ?
= Enguerrand (Ingram) I
de Fiennes (d. 1218) I
I I
I Faramus
I de Bolonia
V of Ash Bullen
:
V
a quo
BOLOYGNE
of Ash Bullen ?
NOTES
[1] Granted of a hide of land in Balgeham, Surrey, in the manor of
Clopham, to the abbey of Bec, in Daniel Gurney, The Record of
the House of Gournay (1848), p. 235. This charter recites in
part:
"... Faramus, filius Willelmi Bononie, qui est in Christo,
salutem.
...ex parte meo concedo donationem, quam antecessores mei,
scilicet, Gaufridus, filius Comitis Eustachii de Bolonie,
avus meus, et Willelmus de Bolonia, filus ipsius, pater
meus,...
...testes fratres mei, Eustacius et Simon, Hugo de Boseville
et uxor ejus,..'
[2] Rev. E. H. Bates, ed., Two Cartularies of the Benedictine
Abbeys of Muchelney and Athelney in the County of Somerset
(London: Harrison and Sons, 1899), Somerset Record Society
XIV:74-75. The foonote to charters 54-56 reads in part,
' William I gave Martock to the Earl of Bulloigne who seems
to have settled one member of his family at the hamlet of
Ash, called Ash-Bullen after its owners. One of them was
the Faramus, son of Thomas, of Nos. 55, 56. He was living
in 1240. Peter de Boloygne and Christina, his wife, levied
a fine of lands in "Parva Bradewaye, Ashulle, Esse Bologine
and Mertoke" in 1311 (Ped. Fin. 4 Ed. II, 64). In the
Tax Roll of 1327, John Boloyngne and William Dare appear in
the lists for Stapleton and Milton in the parish of Martock.
These three charters may be dated about 1240. '
* John P. Ravilious
Faramus de Bolonia, descendant of the Counts of Boulogne (?)
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
taf
Re: Faramus de Bolonia, descendant of the Counts of Boulogne
John P. Ravilious wrote:
Not that it isn't worth bringing this to people's attention, but I have
seen this before. Maybe Moriarty, maybe Evans pointed out the
existence of this later Faramus in an article, maybe half-a-century
ago. I will see if I can find it.
Todd
In addition to the notes made by Rev. Bates concerning these
charters, the name Pharamus in the Boloygne (or similarly spelled)
family indicates a strong probability of this descent. If the
tenure of these lands in Somerset continued beyond the 14th century,
there may be an extended male-line descent from the Counts of
Boulogne, and allegedly (if proven) from the first Counts of
Flanders (9th and 10th century).
Not that it isn't worth bringing this to people's attention, but I have
seen this before. Maybe Moriarty, maybe Evans pointed out the
existence of this later Faramus in an article, maybe half-a-century
ago. I will see if I can find it.
Todd
-
Birds
Re: Faramus de Bolonia, descendant of the Counts of Boulogne
Hello John,
I can recall a few pages on the subject of the counts of Boulogne and
on the illigimate offspring of Eustace II. William and his sons
Faramus, Eustace and Simon are mentioned on page 160-165.
I believe it was in Alan V. Murray, 'The Crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem.
A Dynastic History 1099-1125', Prosopographica et Genealogica 2000.
ISBN 1-900934-03-5. This book was volume 4 in the serie Occasional
Publications of the Linacre Unit for Prosopographical Research.
Hans Vogels
John P. Ravilious schreef:
I can recall a few pages on the subject of the counts of Boulogne and
on the illigimate offspring of Eustace II. William and his sons
Faramus, Eustace and Simon are mentioned on page 160-165.
I believe it was in Alan V. Murray, 'The Crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem.
A Dynastic History 1099-1125', Prosopographica et Genealogica 2000.
ISBN 1-900934-03-5. This book was volume 4 in the serie Occasional
Publications of the Linacre Unit for Prosopographical Research.
Hans Vogels
John P. Ravilious schreef:
Saturday, 25 November, 2006
Hello All,
An interesting charter of Pharamus de Boulogne recites his
descent from Eustace II, count of Boulogne, and further evidences
the existence of two siblings, Eustace and Simon [1]. Aside from
the de Fiennes descent from Pharamus himself, and those evidently
from his sister [allegedly named Rohese and wife (or at least one of
the wives) of Richard de Lucy], no other proven descent has been
noted to date from Geoffrey de Boulogne.
There are records in the chartulary of the abbey of Muchelney
which indicate a probable descent from this family, and very
possibly from one of the known siblings of Pharamus de Boulogne.
These three charters (and the notes to same) are as follows:
' 54. Charter of Ralph de Vaus concerning 12d. to be received
at the chapel of the infirmary and 12d. to the use of the
sick at Bradeweye.
Grant by Ralph de Vaus to the church of Muchelney for the
safety of his soul and the souls of his ancestors and successors,
in pure alms, of 2s., to be received yearly at Christmas at
Bradeweye from the 20s. of his farm which Thomas de Bollonia
is bound to pay to him yearly for the said land of Bradeweye,
viz., 12d. to maintain the light of the chapel of the infirmary
of the same place, and 12d. for the sick of the same infirmary.
' 55. Charter to Thomas de Bolonia concering the said two
shillings.
Notification to Thomas de Bolonia by Ralph de Vallibus
of his grant to the monks of Muchelney of 2s. to be received
yearly from his farm of Bradeweye.
' 56. Charter of Faramus de Bolonia concerning the said two
shillings.
Attornment by Faramus de Bolonia, son of Thomas de Bolonia,
to Richard le Dare, of Mideltone, to pay yearly to the monks
of Muchelney for their infirmary, 4s., to wit, 2s. of his own
gift, and 2s. of the gift of Ralph de Vallibus, for which he
is bound to acquit the same Ralph for the land of Bradweye,
which he and his heirs hold of him. ' [2]
In addition to the notes made by Rev. Bates concerning these
charters, the name Pharamus in the Boloygne (or similarly spelled)
family indicates a strong probability of this descent. If the
tenure of these lands in Somerset continued beyond the 14th century,
there may be an extended male-line descent from the Counts of
Boulogne, and allegedly (if proven) from the first Counts of
Flanders (9th and 10th century).
Should anyone have further information concerning this family,
that would be of great interest.
Cheers,
John *
[NOTE: the following chart contains conjectured relationships,
indicate thus: :........ ]
1) Goda of = Eustace II = 2) Ida of ~ NN
England count of Boulogne I Lorraine I
d. 1093 I m. 1057 I
_____________________________I__ I _ _ _
I I I I
Eustace III Godfrey Baldwin Geoffrey
count of 'of Bouillon' K of de Boulogne
Boulogne "King" of Jerusalem of Carshalton
= Mary of Jerusalem d. 1118 d. aft 1086
Scotland d. 1100 = Beatrix de
I Mandeville
V I
I
William
of Carshalton
d. ca. 1130
I
___________________________________________________I__
I I I I
Pharamus a dau. (Rohese ?) Eustace Simon
of Carshalton, = Richard de : :
Surrey and Lucy (d. 1179) : :
Magdalen Laver, I :.........:
Essex; seigneur V :
de Tingry :
d. aft 1158 = Matilda :
__________I_________ :
I I :
William Sybil Thomas
d.s.p. (heiress) de Bolonia ?
= Enguerrand (Ingram) I
de Fiennes (d. 1218) I
I I
I Faramus
I de Bolonia
V of Ash Bullen
:
V
a quo
BOLOYGNE
of Ash Bullen ?
NOTES
[1] Granted of a hide of land in Balgeham, Surrey, in the manor of
Clopham, to the abbey of Bec, in Daniel Gurney, The Record of
the House of Gournay (1848), p. 235. This charter recites in
part:
"... Faramus, filius Willelmi Bononie, qui est in Christo,
salutem.
...ex parte meo concedo donationem, quam antecessores mei,
scilicet, Gaufridus, filius Comitis Eustachii de Bolonie,
avus meus, et Willelmus de Bolonia, filus ipsius, pater
meus,...
...testes fratres mei, Eustacius et Simon, Hugo de Boseville
et uxor ejus,..'
[2] Rev. E. H. Bates, ed., Two Cartularies of the Benedictine
Abbeys of Muchelney and Athelney in the County of Somerset
(London: Harrison and Sons, 1899), Somerset Record Society
XIV:74-75. The foonote to charters 54-56 reads in part,
' William I gave Martock to the Earl of Bulloigne who seems
to have settled one member of his family at the hamlet of
Ash, called Ash-Bullen after its owners. One of them was
the Faramus, son of Thomas, of Nos. 55, 56. He was living
in 1240. Peter de Boloygne and Christina, his wife, levied
a fine of lands in "Parva Bradewaye, Ashulle, Esse Bologine
and Mertoke" in 1311 (Ped. Fin. 4 Ed. II, 64). In the
Tax Roll of 1327, John Boloyngne and William Dare appear in
the lists for Stapleton and Milton in the parish of Martock.
These three charters may be dated about 1240. '
* John P. Ravilious
-
Tim Powys-Lybbe
Re: Faramus de Bolonia, descendant of the Counts of Boulogne
In message of 26 Nov, "Birds" <h.vogels6@chello.nl> wrote:
I'm not sure if this is the same thing but an article by Alan V Murray
is to be found in the site for "Prosopon: The Journal of Prosopography"
in Newsletter No 4:
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~prosop/prosopon/prosopon.htm
It seems that the site is being relaunched with the first new article,
all 80 odd pages of it, since 2002.
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/
Hello John,
I can recall a few pages on the subject of the counts of Boulogne and
on the illigimate offspring of Eustace II. William and his sons
Faramus, Eustace and Simon are mentioned on page 160-165.
I believe it was in Alan V. Murray, 'The Crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem.
A Dynastic History 1099-1125', Prosopographica et Genealogica 2000.
ISBN 1-900934-03-5. This book was volume 4 in the serie Occasional
Publications of the Linacre Unit for Prosopographical Research.
I'm not sure if this is the same thing but an article by Alan V Murray
is to be found in the site for "Prosopon: The Journal of Prosopography"
in Newsletter No 4:
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~prosop/prosopon/prosopon.htm
It seems that the site is being relaunched with the first new article,
all 80 odd pages of it, since 2002.
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/