NORMAN INVASION OF England

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Andrew and Inge

NORMAN INVASION OF England

Legg inn av Andrew and Inge » 19 nov 2006 14:46:25

Dear Peter

There is no simple answer. The Normans, by 1066, were French by the
political definitions of the time, but also still maintained a feeling that
they were a seperate people within France. On the other hand there were many
such sub-cultures which existed all over Europe, and many, such as the
Bretons and Flemings, who were also technically in France, would have been
far more distinct from "normal French" to anyone who saw them or heard them
speak, and they would have been far more likely to one day attain full
independence from the French court.

Most importantly for your question, in England itself the invaders were
often referred to by themselves and others as French. It should be kept in
mind that the invasion was a mixed force, involving other "non-French, and
yet French" people as Bretons and Flemings, and not even its leaders were
all ethnically Norman. So what they had most in common, when looked at in
England, was that they were invaders from France.

Indeed, rather than ever becoming mere seperatists from France, the Normans
perhaps tended more to see themselves as competitors of the nobles in the
neighbouring provinces of France, in the competition to control it all.

Best Regards
Andrew

===
From: PDeloriol@aol.com
Subject: NORMAN INVASION OF England
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 13:39:52 EST

Would anyone be able to clarify whether the Norman invasion was and is
regarded as a French Invasion, or was it a Norman one ?

Peter de Loriol

Nathaniel Taylor

Re: NORMAN INVASION OF England

Legg inn av Nathaniel Taylor » 19 nov 2006 20:12:14

In article <mailman.86.1163944259.22297.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>,
"Andrew and Inge" <andrew.en.inge@skynet.be> wrote:

Dear Peter

There is no simple answer. The Normans, by 1066, were French by the
political definitions of the time, but also still maintained a feeling that
they were a seperate people within France. On the other hand there were many
such sub-cultures which existed all over Europe, and many, such as the
Bretons and Flemings, who were also technically in France, would have been
far more distinct from "normal French" to anyone who saw them or heard them
speak, and they would have been far more likely to one day attain full
independence from the French court.

Most importantly for your question, in England itself the invaders were
often referred to by themselves and others as French. It should be kept in
mind that the invasion was a mixed force, involving other "non-French, and
yet French" people as Bretons and Flemings, and not even its leaders were
all ethnically Norman. So what they had most in common, when looked at in
England, was that they were invaders from France.

Indeed, rather than ever becoming mere seperatists from France, the Normans
perhaps tended more to see themselves as competitors of the nobles in the
neighbouring provinces of France, in the competition to control it all.

I would emphasize that the Normans (lords or chroniclers) normally did
not call themselves 'French'. To them (e.g. to Orderic) 'French' meant
their neighbors and enemies to the South, those of the Ile de France.
Yes, the invasion of 1066 had Bretons and Flemings as well as Normans,
all of whom had some nominal political connection to the king of the
French as their overlord in some contexts, and all of whom shared to
varying degrees in 'French' language and culture. Some contemporary
English sources might refer to all the newcomers of 1066
indescriminately as 'French', but I'm not sure of that, and I assumed
that they ordinarily did not. What does the Peterborough Chronicle call
them? As for the people, so for the places. I believe that when a man
in England was said to be departing for 'France' in the eleventh or
twelfth centuries he was not going to Normandy (except en route).

Nat Taylor
http://www.nltaylor.net

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