Would anyone be able to clarify whether the Norman invasion was and is
regarded as a French Invasion, or was it a Norman one ?
Peter de Loriol
NORMAN INVASION OF England
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
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Tim Powys-Lybbe
Re: NORMAN INVASION OF England
In message of 17 Nov, PDeloriol@aol.com wrote:
They first of all invaded France then England?
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/
Would anyone be able to clarify whether the Norman invasion was and is
regarded as a French Invasion, or was it a Norman one ?
They first of all invaded France then England?
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/
-
Nathaniel Taylor
Re: NORMAN INVASION OF England
In article <mailman.776.1163788810.32209.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>,
PDeloriol@aol.com wrote:
At the time Normans thought of 'French' as other people, not themselves.
Orderic uses 'French' for people from the Ile de France, for example
those against whom the Normans were constantly fighting for control over
the Vexin. Even to the (limited) extent the Norman dukes and people
recognized the overlordship of the reges francorum, they still did not
think of themselves as 'French'.
Nat Taylor
http://www.nltaylor.net
PDeloriol@aol.com wrote:
Would anyone be able to clarify whether the Norman invasion was and is
regarded as a French Invasion, or was it a Norman one ?
At the time Normans thought of 'French' as other people, not themselves.
Orderic uses 'French' for people from the Ile de France, for example
those against whom the Normans were constantly fighting for control over
the Vexin. Even to the (limited) extent the Norman dukes and people
recognized the overlordship of the reges francorum, they still did not
think of themselves as 'French'.
Nat Taylor
http://www.nltaylor.net
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Denis Beauregard
Re: NORMAN INVASION OF England
On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 13:39:52 EST, PDeloriol@aol.com wrote in
soc.genealogy.medieval:
I have a book called Atlas historique. It is the French
translation of a German book published in 1964. I have the
1987 printing.
p. 126-127 The Norman
There is a map of the "Norman states", clearly implying that
they conquered some parts of land. On this map, their states
included Normandy (including Bretagne), the England kingdom
and the Apulia and Calabria Italian dukedom.
p. 138-139 France
On the map, the French territory has the crown lands, which
are very small, and the French vassals, which include the
Normandy Dukedom but also the Bretagne Dukedom and the many
more Dukedoms and Earldoms/Counties. Neigborough of France
were Navarre and Aragon, the Bourgogne or Arles kingdom
(later Provence), the Germanic Empire. Gand, Bruges and
Barcelone were in France while Arles, Avignon, Lyon, Besançon
and Bar-le-Duc were foreign lands.
I think the Englishmen are too proud and just can't accept to be
conquered by a small Viking tribe and thus their historians
have renamed the Norman to the French when describing this
invasion. It would be interesting to make a list of the
invaders and see from where they came.
Denis
--
0 Denis Beauregard -
/\/ Les Français d'Amérique - http://www.francogene.com/genealogie-quebec/
|\ French in North America before 1721 - http://www.francogene.com/quebec-genealogy/
/ | Maintenant sur cédérom, début à 1765
oo oo Now on CD-ROM, beginning to 1765
soc.genealogy.medieval:
Would anyone be able to clarify whether the Norman invasion was and is
regarded as a French Invasion, or was it a Norman one ?
I have a book called Atlas historique. It is the French
translation of a German book published in 1964. I have the
1987 printing.
p. 126-127 The Norman
There is a map of the "Norman states", clearly implying that
they conquered some parts of land. On this map, their states
included Normandy (including Bretagne), the England kingdom
and the Apulia and Calabria Italian dukedom.
p. 138-139 France
On the map, the French territory has the crown lands, which
are very small, and the French vassals, which include the
Normandy Dukedom but also the Bretagne Dukedom and the many
more Dukedoms and Earldoms/Counties. Neigborough of France
were Navarre and Aragon, the Bourgogne or Arles kingdom
(later Provence), the Germanic Empire. Gand, Bruges and
Barcelone were in France while Arles, Avignon, Lyon, Besançon
and Bar-le-Duc were foreign lands.
I think the Englishmen are too proud and just can't accept to be
conquered by a small Viking tribe and thus their historians
have renamed the Norman to the French when describing this
invasion. It would be interesting to make a list of the
invaders and see from where they came.
Denis
--
0 Denis Beauregard -
/\/ Les Français d'Amérique - http://www.francogene.com/genealogie-quebec/
|\ French in North America before 1721 - http://www.francogene.com/quebec-genealogy/
/ | Maintenant sur cédérom, début à 1765
oo oo Now on CD-ROM, beginning to 1765
-
Tim Powys-Lybbe
Re: NORMAN INVASION OF England
In message of 23 Nov, Denis Beauregard
<denis.b-at-francogene.com@fr.invalid> wrote:
As a matter of social history, Burke in his various compilations showed
how many people loved to have their account starting with some
affirmation that their forbears came with the Conqueror. My
interpretation of this is that these people loved to identify themselves
with the conquering horde and thus with the ruling class, to which they
thought they should belong for ever more. I have not detected much
interest in the nationality of the conquerors: in many ways they were
just another of a long line of marauding invaders, the big difference
was that they were the last.
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/
<denis.b-at-francogene.com@fr.invalid> wrote:
I think the Englishmen are too proud and just can't accept to be
conquered by a small Viking tribe and thus their historians have
renamed the Norman to the French when describing this invasion. It
would be interesting to make a list of the invaders and see from where
they came.
As a matter of social history, Burke in his various compilations showed
how many people loved to have their account starting with some
affirmation that their forbears came with the Conqueror. My
interpretation of this is that these people loved to identify themselves
with the conquering horde and thus with the ruling class, to which they
thought they should belong for ever more. I have not detected much
interest in the nationality of the conquerors: in many ways they were
just another of a long line of marauding invaders, the big difference
was that they were the last.
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/
-
Alex Maxwell Findlater
Re: NORMAN INVASION OF England
Royal charters were often addressed to "Francis et Anglis" in England
and to "Francis et Anglis et Scotis" in Scotland. I don't know when
this began, but it was early. Would anyone have a fix on this?
and to "Francis et Anglis et Scotis" in Scotland. I don't know when
this began, but it was early. Would anyone have a fix on this?
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JeanJacques
Re: NORMAN INVASION OF England
The north men invasion took place during the 9th century or so.
The north men mixed a lot with the local people who had French root, Old
french language etc..
and at the time of the conquest, 2 centuries later, and almost 8 generations
later, the normans were almost completly french
(french talking, french stryle of life etc...)
Look at Guillaume le Conquérant ' mother were arlette de Falaise who were a
typical french christian woman.
William talk mainly old french sligthly mixed with very few words of
scandinavian origin.
So undoubtly, the saxons had been conquered by french.
Jean Jacques.
The north men mixed a lot with the local people who had French root, Old
french language etc..
and at the time of the conquest, 2 centuries later, and almost 8 generations
later, the normans were almost completly french
(french talking, french stryle of life etc...)
Look at Guillaume le Conquérant ' mother were arlette de Falaise who were a
typical french christian woman.
William talk mainly old french sligthly mixed with very few words of
scandinavian origin.
So undoubtly, the saxons had been conquered by french.
Jean Jacques.