Heraldry help - Finding a family Location

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Peter

Heraldry help - Finding a family Location

Legg inn av Peter » 16 nov 2006 00:18:56

Hi Listers

Although the dates I am looking at are probably outside the scope of this list e.g 1600/1700s. The basis of the question e.g the heraldry arms of the family probably may be best answered by a lister on this group. (note copies have also been sent to GenBrit and Warwickshire lists)

I have in my tree a Harris Family a branch of whom I've been trying to find in the Rugby WAR area about the late 1600s to mid 1700s. Their family arms as impaled in 1811 in honour of my ancestor Stephen Harris born circ 1730? were described as being "Sable an antelope salient argent armed crined and hoofed Or"

Can anybody identify this family, its possible location(s), history or any other details that may assist me track them down?

Thanks for any help and assistance provided

Peter
Syd Aust

Tim Powys-Lybbe

Re: Heraldry help - Finding a family Location

Legg inn av Tim Powys-Lybbe » 16 nov 2006 00:49:04

In message of 15 Nov, "Peter" <bales14@tpg.com.au> wrote:

Hi Listers

Although the dates I am looking at are probably outside the scope of
this list e.g 1600/1700s. The basis of the question e.g the heraldry
arms of the family probably may be best answered by a lister on this
group. (note copies have also been sent to GenBrit and Warwickshire
lists)

I have in my tree a Harris Family a branch of whom I've been trying to
find in the Rugby WAR area about the late 1600s to mid 1700s. Their
family arms as impaled in 1811

Impaled? Impaling means two arms placed side by side to portray a close
relationship between either husband and wife or office and the
incumbent (as in bishopric and the actual bishop). So what were the
other arms that these were impaled with?

in honour of my ancestor Stephen Harris born circ 1730? were described
as being "Sable an antelope salient argent armed crined and hoofed Or"

I should be able to look this up tomorrow but as of this moment in time
it is long past my bedtime!

--
Tim Powys-Lybbe                                          tim@powys.org
             For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/

John P. Ravilious

Re: Heraldry help - Finding a family Location

Legg inn av John P. Ravilious » 16 nov 2006 01:05:20

Wednesday, 15 November, 2006


Dear Peter,

I think you're in potential luck, but the arms I note are
for a family identified with Devonshire. Presumably the same,
or a branch of the same, family?

This, from John W. Papworth, An Alphabetical Dictionary of
Coats of Arms belonging to Families in Great Britain and
Ireland (London: T. Richards, 1874), I:57. Note: some of the
text is illegible/missing where bracketed [ ] below:


" [ ] an antelope salient arg. attired tufted and [m]aned or.
HARRIS, co. Devon; and co. Mon[m]outh. "

On-line sources indicate the missing first word is "Sable",
so this is as close a set of arms that I can see.

I note there was a Harris family of Cornworthy, Devon in
the 16th-17th centuries, but do not know if these were their
arms.

Hope this is useful.

Cheers,

John






Peter wrote:
Hi Listers

Although the dates I am looking at are probably outside the scope of this list e.g 1600/1700s. The basis of the question e.g the heraldry arms of the family probably may be best answered by a lister on this group. (note copies have also been sent to GenBrit and Warwickshire lists)

I have in my tree a Harris Family a branch of whom I've been trying to find in the Rugby WAR area about the late 1600s to mid 1700s. Their family arms as impaled in 1811 in honour of my ancestor Stephen Harris born circ 1730? were described as being "Sable an antelope salient argent armed crined and hoofed Or"

Can anybody identify this family, its possible location(s), history or any other details that may assist me track them down?

Thanks for any help and assistance provided

Peter
Syd Aust

John Townsend

Re: Heraldry help - Finding a family Location

Legg inn av John Townsend » 16 nov 2006 19:16:31

A similar query was raised on soc.genealogy.britain. See there for my
reply.

John Townsend
Antiquarian Bookseller/Genealogist
http://www.johntownsend.demon.co.uk

"Peter" <bales14@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:mailman.689.1163632748.32209.gen-medieval@rootsweb.com...
Hi Listers

Although the dates I am looking at are probably outside the scope of this
list e.g 1600/1700s. The basis of the question e.g the heraldry arms of the
family probably may be best answered by a lister on this group. (note copies
have also been sent to GenBrit and Warwickshire lists)

I have in my tree a Harris Family a branch of whom I've been trying to find
in the Rugby WAR area about the late 1600s to mid 1700s. Their family arms
as impaled in 1811 in honour of my ancestor Stephen Harris born circ 1730?
were described as being "Sable an antelope salient argent armed crined and
hoofed Or"

Can anybody identify this family, its possible location(s), history or any
other details that may assist me track them down?

Thanks for any help and assistance provided

Peter
Syd Aust

Peter

Re: Heraldry help - Finding a family Location

Legg inn av Peter » 16 nov 2006 22:03:35

Hi Tim

Thanks for your help.

The other family was Pattenson who were then the "lords" of the manor of
Melmerby in CUMBERLAND (since 1706). The impalement in the church (a photo
of which I have) was according to the book Cumberland Families and Heraldry
was placed there by John Pattenson in 1811 in honour of his (late?) father
in law Stephen Harris.

In relation to the joining of the families (at 2 points as 2 Pattenson
brothers Charles & John married 2 Harris sisters in India in 1801 & 1802
respectively) all I ever come up with on Stephen Harris is often recorded as
"Esq of Rugby", "of Rugby", "of the RN" (comm a Lt in March 1761) or "Indigo
Planter of Comilla East Indies (India) or combinations of these. I do know
that he married another Harris (Mary dau of Samuel Harris a London Attorney
who also practiced for many landed families in the WAR, GLOs, NTHHAMP, DEV
and CORNWELL counties.) however even a date for this or the births of his 2
dau Elizabeth and Mary Anna Frances Antonoietta still escape me.

Any help would be most appreciated

Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Powys-Lybbe" <tim@powys.org>
To: <gen-medieval@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: Heraldry help - Finding a family Location


In message of 15 Nov, "Peter" <bales14@tpg.com.au> wrote:

Hi Listers

Although the dates I am looking at are probably outside the scope of
this list e.g 1600/1700s. The basis of the question e.g the heraldry
arms of the family probably may be best answered by a lister on this
group. (note copies have also been sent to GenBrit and Warwickshire
lists)

I have in my tree a Harris Family a branch of whom I've been trying to
find in the Rugby WAR area about the late 1600s to mid 1700s. Their
family arms as impaled in 1811

Impaled? Impaling means two arms placed side by side to portray a close
relationship between either husband and wife or office and the
incumbent (as in bishopric and the actual bishop). So what were the
other arms that these were impaled with?

in honour of my ancestor Stephen Harris born circ 1730? were described
as being "Sable an antelope salient argent armed crined and hoofed Or"

I should be able to look this up tomorrow but as of this moment in time
it is long past my bedtime!

--
Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/


Tim Powys-Lybbe

Re: Heraldry help - Finding a family Location

Legg inn av Tim Powys-Lybbe » 17 nov 2006 18:00:46

In message of 15 Nov, "Peter" <bales14@tpg.com.au> wrote:

Hi Listers

Although the dates I am looking at are probably outside the scope of this list e.g 1600/1700s. The basis of the question e.g the heraldry arms of the family probably may be best answered by a lister on this group. (note copies have also been sent to GenBrit and Warwickshire lists)

I have in my tree a Harris Family a branch of whom I've been trying to find in the Rugby WAR area about the late 1600s to mid 1700s. Their family arms as impaled in 1811 in honour of my ancestor Stephen Harris born circ 1730? were described as being "Sable an antelope salient argent armed crined and hoofed Or"

Can anybody identify this family, its possible location(s), history or any other details that may assist me track them down?

Thanks for any help and assistance provided

Others have managed to get their books out and I have been delayed. I
can add this snippet: In Burke's General Armory of 1844, of the 44
blazons for the various spellings of Harris, only two include an
antelope and both are from Devon. For one of these, Burke says 'Visit
Devon 1620'.

That Visitation has two entries for Harrys, pp. 139-140, and both appear
to be have been signed by the current armiger (good news) and there is
no sign of any addition after 1620. The preface makes no mention of any
later visitation but I would expect there to have been one.

--
Tim Powys-Lybbe                                          tim@powys.org
             For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/

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