Sir Thomas de Grey

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Sir Thomas de Grey

Legg inn av Gjest » 23 okt 2006 18:50:30

I think I have identified Sir Thomas de Grey, father of Alice, wife of
Thomas fitz Eustace.

Michael gave us the following on Oct 19:

Petitioners: Thomas de Grey. _Addressees: King. _Other people
mentioned: Avice (sic), widow of Thomas Fitz Eustace, and _daughter of
the petitioner; Thomas Fitz Eustace, late husband of Avice _Fitz
Eustace; Robert de Bures; Roger Damory. _Nature of request: Grey
requests the grant of his daughter's marriage, _he paying as much as
any other, and that the king will command Bures by _his letters to take
an oath from Avice not to marry without licence of _the king or Grey.
_Endorsement: The king has granted this petition at the request of Lord
_Roger Damory.

Note that Robert de Bures is mentioned in this petition.

Sir Robert de Bures, d. by 24 Sep 1331, is given notice in Knights of
Edward I vol 1 p 159. He held lands at Gt. Bures, Essex and was Lord
of Acton, Suffolk. Had a grant of free warren at Bures and Neuton,
Suffolk (among others) 1314.

Turning to v. 2 p 155 in Knights of Edward I is a recap of the career
of Sir Thomas de Grey, of Little Cornerde, Suffolk. I quote in part,
he had "Lic. for him to alienate to Malling Abbey 6 mess., 180 acres
of land, etc., and 26/- rent in Lit. Cornerde, Neuton, and Bures,
Suff., in exchange for other lands there, 16 Mar. 1318. Lic. for Jn.
de Oddinggeseles to grant to Thos de Grey of Cornerd and w. Alice a
mess. and lands at Cavendish, Suff., 24 Jy. 1321 (P.R.)"

So the Thomas de Grey and Robert de Bures in Knights of Edw I both had
interest in some of the same properties. I believe there is reason to
think that this Sir Thomas de Grey was father of Avice/Alice noted in
the petition above.

Burke's Peerage and Baronetage 1999) under Walsingham gives us the
following pedigree:

Henry de Grey (d. 1219) [wife was Iseude de Bardolf], leaving 3rd son:
|
William de Grey, of Cavendish, Suffolk, Landford and Sandiacre, Derbys;
m Amice --
d 1287) and had:
|
*Sir John de Grey [see below]; m Margaret Odyngseles and had:
|
Sir Thomas de Grey; m c 1306 Alice, dau and heiress of Sir Richard de
Cornerth, thus acquiring the estate of Cornerth, Suffolk, and d. 1321,
leaving an est son Thomas, etc.
|
[I place Alice, wife of Thomas fitz Eustace as dau of this Sir Thomas
de Grey.]

*I question this generation. According to CP vol 6 p 144, Margaret,
dau. of William de Oddingseles and his wife Ela (fitz Walter) m. John
de Grey of Rotherfield, who d. 1311/2.

Collins' Peerage of England vol 7 p 510, which pretty much agrees
with Burke, notes that William de Grey's son John succeeded to the
estate at Cavendish, but names no wife. John's oldest son, Thomas
took the arms of Cornherd/Cornerth, which his descendants used (azure,
a fess between two chevronels, or). Thomas and Alice (Cornerth) had
sons Thomas, Roger and John. No daughters mentioned.


Back to Knights of Edward I vol 1 p 238:
Cornerth, Sr Richard de, Kt (Cornherde) - in part.
Holds 1/8 Kt. fee at Bures, Suff 1273 and 1275. Overlord at Bures
1294. Holds 1/4 fee at Cavendish, 1 fee at Clare and Cavendish, Suff,
and Thaxsted, Ess, 1314. Overlord of Cavendish Manor as 1 fee 1322.

Mardi

Gjest

Re: Sir Thomas de Grey

Legg inn av Gjest » 23 okt 2006 20:55:01

mardicar@yahoo.com schrieb:

I think I have identified Sir Thomas de Grey, father of Alice, wife of
Thomas fitz Eustace.

Mardi, I am inclined to agree with you. (I believe her name was Amice,
however, rather than Avice or Alice; Cullum calls her Amicia - I note
that Sir Thomas Grey of Cornard's paternal grandmother was named Amice
- FWIW).
Turning to v. 2 p 155 in Knights of Edward I is a recap of the career
of Sir Thomas de Grey, of Little Cornerde, Suffolk. I quote in part,
he had "Lic. for him to alienate to Malling Abbey 6 mess., 180 acres
of land, etc., and 26/- rent in Lit. Cornerde, Neuton, and Bures,
Suff., in exchange for other lands there, 16 Mar. 1318. Lic. for Jn.
de Oddinggeseles to grant to Thos de Grey of Cornerd and w. Alice a
mess. and lands at Cavendish, Suff., 24 Jy. 1321 (P.R.)"

Thomas de Grey's IPM (1321) states that his son and heir, Thomas the
younger, was aged 15 and more at his father's death. As you note, a
marriage date for the elder Thomas and his wife, Alice de Cornard, is
usally assigned as "circa 1306". If this is accurate, it is difficult
to believe that their daughter could have been the wife of Thomas
FitzEustace (1263-1318).

I seem to recall elsewhere some references to his having daughters and
trying to marry them off, circa 1319. If this identification is
correct, then either the circa 1306 date is likely incorrect, or Thomas
had a pre-Cornard first wife.

In terms of chronology, if Alice Cornard's father was still living in
1322 as per your note, it is questionable that he should have been the
grandfather-in-law of a man born 1263; however, I think this 1322
reference may be wrong (as Sir Thomas and Alice Grey hold the Cornard
estates as per his 1321 IPM). Perhaps an IPM for Richard Cornard would
help.

MA-R

PS Great and Little Cornard are not far from Hawstead.

Gjest

Re: Sir Thomas de Grey

Legg inn av Gjest » 26 okt 2006 01:22:10

In terms of chronology, if Alice Cornard's father was still living in
1322 as per your note, it is questionable that he should have been the
grandfather-in-law of a man born 1263; however, I think this 1322
reference may be wrong (as Sir Thomas and Alice Grey hold the Cornard
estates as per his 1321 IPM). Perhaps an IPM for Richard Cornard would
help.

MA-R

It seems likely that the Sir Richard de Cornerth named in Knights of
Edward I was a brother of Alice, wife of Sir Thomas de Grey, rather
than father. However, that doesn't solve the age disparity between
Alice and her alleged husband.

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