Lady Jane Curwen

Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper

Svar
Chris Dickinson

Lady Jane Curwen

Legg inn av Chris Dickinson » 12 okt 2006 05:35:48

A 1620 [?] document (Wybergh papers - D/WYB/2/24) refers to Christopher
Crakeplace the younger and his wife Jane. These were both of Crakeplace Hall
in the parish of Dean in Cumberland. Christopher had his first child in
1617, probably by Jane [who would appear to be his second wife]. If so, she
might have been born a little before 1600 - or, if already a widow, a
somewhat earlier date. Say, 1580s, 1590s.

The1628 will of Oswald Woodhall of Branthwaite Edge (a neighbour to
Crakeplace Hall) makes a bequest of four shillings to 'Ladie Jane Curwen of
Crackplace Hall'.

The first Jane and the second Jane may well be the same. Or it may be
that Jane wasn't a wife, but a mother-in-law or some other relative (there
was a niece Jane Crakeplace - but did she marry a Curwen?) staying
permanently at Crakeplace Hall - or just living there to keep the widow
Crakeplace company..

The problem is that I can't find a suitable Jane in any Curwen pedigree that
I have - but I don't have much at hand on the Curwens.

I'd be very grateful if anyone with better resources could look up to see
whether Crakeplace gets a mention anywhere in any Curwen pedigree; or
whether a potential spinster or widow Jane Curwen can be identified.

Thank you
Chris

Gjest

Re: Lady Jane Curwen

Legg inn av Gjest » 12 okt 2006 11:47:26

Chris Dickinson wrote:
A 1620 [?] document (Wybergh papers - D/WYB/2/24) refers to Christopher
Crakeplace the younger and his wife Jane. These were both of Crakeplace Hall
in the parish of Dean in Cumberland. Christopher had his first child in
1617, probably by Jane [who would appear to be his second wife]. If so, she
might have been born a little before 1600 - or, if already a widow, a
somewhat earlier date. Say, 1580s, 1590s.

The1628 will of Oswald Woodhall of Branthwaite Edge (a neighbour to
Crakeplace Hall) makes a bequest of four shillings to 'Ladie Jane Curwen of
Crackplace Hall'.

The first Jane and the second Jane may well be the same. Or it may be
that Jane wasn't a wife, but a mother-in-law or some other relative (there
was a niece Jane Crakeplace - but did she marry a Curwen?) staying
permanently at Crakeplace Hall - or just living there to keep the widow
Crakeplace company..

The problem is that I can't find a suitable Jane in any Curwen pedigree that
I have - but I don't have much at hand on the Curwens.

Chris

I had a quick look at Boumphrey & Hudleston, but nothing there - other
than the bemusing statement that the surname Crakeplace is pronounced
"Craples"!

MA-R

Chris Dickinson

Re: Lady Jane Curwen

Legg inn av Chris Dickinson » 12 okt 2006 12:58:36

MA-R wrote:


I had a quick look at Boumphrey & Hudleston, but nothing there - other
than the bemusing statement that the surname Crakeplace is pronounced
"Craples"!


Thanks. The Crakeplaces do seem to have left surprisingly little to trace.

Chris

Gjest

Re: Lady Jane Curwen

Legg inn av Gjest » 12 okt 2006 13:15:51

Chris Dickinson wrote:

MA-R wrote:

I had a quick look at Boumphrey & Hudleston, but nothing there - other
than the bemusing statement that the surname Crakeplace is pronounced
"Craples"!

Thanks. The Crakeplaces do seem to have left surprisingly little to trace.

Chris

According to PROCAT, Christopher Crakeplace the younger appears to have
died circa 12 Charles I (1636-7) - assuming that the Chancery
references are to an IPM; according to Boumphrey and Hudleston, the
elder Christopher died in 1617.

Thus the Jane Curwen at Crakeplace in 1628 is unlikely to have been the
same as Jane, wife of Christopher the younger in 1620 - unless the
Scots custom of referring to a wife by her maiden name was in use in
Cumbria at the time, and the style "Lady" merely refers to a
gentlewoman and not a Knight's wife or higher peer's daughter, which
seems most unlikely to me.

(I have seen the marriage agreement for Christopher and Elizabeth on
A2A which I presume gives rise to your suggestion that Jane was his
second wife.)

Michael

Chris Dickinson

Re: Lady Jane Curwen

Legg inn av Chris Dickinson » 12 okt 2006 18:41:04

Michael wrote:


According to PROCAT, Christopher Crakeplace the younger appears to have
died circa 12 Charles I (1636-7) - assuming that the Chancery
references are to an IPM; according to Boumphrey and Hudleston, the
elder Christopher died in 1617.

Well, there you go. I somehow entirely missed that 1636-7 reference!! Most
strange. However, a very useful thing to have - and it may solve the Curwen
problem. A visit to Kew is called for next week.

So 'widow' Jane wasn't in 1628.

Thus the Jane Curwen at Crakeplace in 1628 is unlikely to have been the
same as Jane, wife of Christopher the younger in 1620 - unless the
Scots custom of referring to a wife by her maiden name was in use in
Cumbria at the time, and the style "Lady" merely refers to a
gentlewoman and not a Knight's wife or higher peer's daughter, which
seems most unlikely to me.

Yes, my thinking was that, if Jane and Lady Jane Curwen were the same, then
she was keeping her pre-married name. I was thinking that Oswald Woodhall
may have referred to her as 'Lady' simply out of yeoman servility, in which
case she might have been a Curwen of Camerton (the Crakeplaces had property
at Flimby), rather than a Curwen of Workington Hall.

My original and immediate thought had been that she was a widow of Sir Henry
Curwen of Workington Hall, but a quick glance at internet sources ruled that
idea out (he seems to have been married to a Catherine and Margaret):

http://www.stirnet.com/HTML/genie/briti ... rwen01.htm


I had also ruled out Henry's sister, who was a Jane and married to Sir
William Lambton, on the grounds that she would definitely be using her
husband's surname.

I have, however, at this moment just had an inspired thought (which may be
nonsense)! The link above gives the second wife of Sir Henry's father, Sir
Henry (died 1597), as Janet Crosby (I missed that too on an earlier look).
There was a yeoman Crosby family at Lowmoor, a farm directly south of
Crakeplace Hall. I find it doubtful that Sir Henry would have married that
much below his station, but it's not impossible. It would explain why she
came to live at Crakeplace Hall - close to her family but an entirely
suitable residence (and probably quite a comfortable home as it was brand
new). It would also explain why Oswald Woodhall gave her something in his
will.

So I think I may just have solved my problem!

(I have seen the marriage agreement for Christopher and Elizabeth on
A2A which I presume gives rise to your suggestion that Jane was his
second wife.)

Yes, very Sherlock Holmes of you! I am a little cautious about the
reference - I've known A2A abstracts to be wrong before - and this earlier
marriage would have had to be childless. But it so happens that the date of
the marriage agreement is the same year as the baptism of the first child of
Christopher's brother Cuthbert, so I wonder whether the document was
misread. [it's at Carlisle RO, who are a bit short on staff at the moment -
the last research they did for me earlier this year put me on a waiting list
of about nine weeks - so I haven't yet checked it out]

Thanks for the 1636-7 reference!

Chris

Gjest

Re: Lady Jane Curwen

Legg inn av Gjest » 12 okt 2006 19:19:07

Chris Dickinson schrieb:

Thanks for the 1636-7 reference!

Chris

You are very welcome. In case you are interested in the Curwens, I
have dug out the MI from Amersham church (Bucks) for Sir Patricius's
son and heir apparent:

Percipietis imarcescibilem/ Gloriae Coronam/ 1 Pet: 5. 4./ The
depositum of Henry Curwen Esq., onely Son of Sr. Patricius Curwen of
Workington/ in the Coun: of Cumberland Baronet and the Lady Isabella
his Wife, one of the Daughters/ and Co-heires of Sr. George Selby of
Whitehouse in the Coun: Palatine of Durham Kt., de=/ =scended from the
noble Familie of the Gospatricks Earles of Northumberland & of his/
house the 23d in lineall descent since the Conquest, who was sent
hither to be instruc=/ ted in learning under the tuition of Charles
Croke D:D: and Rector of this Church,/ wherein having proceeded to the
love and admiration of all that knew him, at 14 yeares/ of age he
deceased leaving his absent Parents full of sorrow, whose love doth
thus/ expresse it selfe in the sad memorie of him whereunto they have
dedicated this Monument./ Obiit August 21, Anno Domini 1636. [Henry
Curwen buried 23.8.1636 - Parish Register]

Good luck at Kew!

Cheers, Michael

Svar

Gå tilbake til «soc.genealogy.medieval»