Dear Newsgroup ~
Europaische Stanmtafeln, 1 (1980): 95 states that Henry III, Count of
Louvain and Brabant, died 1095, had four daughters, none of which are
named. The online source below concurs that Count Henry had four
daughters. It states that it was recently established that one of the
daughters, Adele, married Simon 1 de Lorraine, and that another
daughter, Gertrude, seems to have married Lambert, Count of Montaigu.
A third possible daughhter is named as Ava, lady of Wavre. It states
that a precise genealogy of the Wavre family, however, is not possible
due to a lack of documents.
Adele, wife of Simon 1 de Lorraine, is ancestress of the following
individuals:
Blanche of Artois, Isabel of France (wife of King Edward II of
England), Margaret of France (2nd wife of King Edward I of England),
Geoffrey de Geneville, and Jacquette de Luxembourg.
Comments anyone?
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Source: http://webplaza.pt.lu/boursch/loutsch1.htm
Le premier seigneur de Wavre connu avec certitude est le comte Henri
III de Louvain (1079-1095), et ce en 1086. Il avait quatre filles,
dont on ne sait pas grand'chose. Récemment, il a été établi que
l'une d'elles, Adèle, fut mariée au duc Simon 1 de Lorraine (01076, +
1139) (13), une autre, Gertrude, semble avoir épousé Lambert, comte
de Montaigu (cit. 1095-1147) (14), des deux autres on ne sait rien.
D'après M. Martin, une de ces filles pourrait être Ava, dame de
Wavre, citée dès 1125 avec ses fils, mariée à un "nobilis vir"
Siger (peut-être de Pellenberg près de Louvain). Ils seraient les
auteurs de la famille de Wavre. Ceci est d'autant plus vraisembable
qu'il existe des preuves d'une parenté entre cette famille et les
comtes de Louvain, ducs de Brabant, et que, e[1 plus de la seigneurie
de Wavre, tous les alleux en possession de ses seigneurs proviennent
des comtes de Louvain.
Une généalogie précise de la famille de Wavre n'est malheureusement
pas possible faute de documents. Le fait que les Wavre se soient
éteints au début du XIVe siècle n'y est sans doute pas étranger. La
filiation s'établit à peu près de la manière suivante:
Footnote 13: Georges Pauli: La maison ducale de Lorraine, l, Michel
Parisse: Noblesse et chevalerie en Lorraine médiévale, Nancy 1982 et
note suivante.
Footnote 14: Paul Anen: Adêle de Louvain épouse de Simon 1 duc de
Lorraine. ln: Intermédiaire des généalogistes 1961, pg. 61.
Daughters of Henry III, Count of Louvain and Brabant, died 1
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Peter Stewart
Re: Daughters of Henry III, Count of Louvain and Brabant, di
"Douglas Richardson" <royalancestry@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1160211112.673201.184090@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
The conjecture that Adelaide the wife of Simon I of Lorraine was a daughter
of Count Henri III of Louvain is not "recent", and certainly not
"established". The attempt to identify any of her three sisters is equally
speculative.
Why, for starters, does your source suggest that such an ambitious man as
Simon of Lorraine did not pursue a claim of his wife to inherit Louvain as
one of four sisters born to a count with no sons? Ditto Lambert of Montaigu
and any other husband supposedly attached to this brood, of whom nothing is
actually known except their existence, sex and number?
Or is this just a fishing exercise with no firm information behind it?
Peter Stewart
news:1160211112.673201.184090@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Dear Newsgroup ~
Europaische Stanmtafeln, 1 (1980): 95 states that Henry III, Count of
Louvain and Brabant, died 1095, had four daughters, none of which are
named. The online source below concurs that Count Henry had four
daughters. It states that it was recently established that one of the
daughters, Adele, married Simon 1 de Lorraine, and that another
daughter, Gertrude, seems to have married Lambert, Count of Montaigu.
A third possible daughhter is named as Ava, lady of Wavre. It states
that a precise genealogy of the Wavre family, however, is not possible
due to a lack of documents.
Adele, wife of Simon 1 de Lorraine, is ancestress of the following
individuals:
Blanche of Artois, Isabel of France (wife of King Edward II of
England), Margaret of France (2nd wife of King Edward I of England),
Geoffrey de Geneville, and Jacquette de Luxembourg.
Comments anyone?
The conjecture that Adelaide the wife of Simon I of Lorraine was a daughter
of Count Henri III of Louvain is not "recent", and certainly not
"established". The attempt to identify any of her three sisters is equally
speculative.
Why, for starters, does your source suggest that such an ambitious man as
Simon of Lorraine did not pursue a claim of his wife to inherit Louvain as
one of four sisters born to a count with no sons? Ditto Lambert of Montaigu
and any other husband supposedly attached to this brood, of whom nothing is
actually known except their existence, sex and number?
Or is this just a fishing exercise with no firm information behind it?
Peter Stewart
-
Birds
Re: Daughters of Henry III, Count of Louvain and Brabant, di
Douglas,
I can recall a previous string:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.gene ... f+Louvain&
There probably will be more on the subject.
Hans Vogels
Douglas Richardson schreef:
I can recall a previous string:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.gene ... f+Louvain&
There probably will be more on the subject.
Hans Vogels
Douglas Richardson schreef:
Dear Newsgroup ~
Europaische Stanmtafeln, 1 (1980): 95 states that Henry III, Count of
Louvain and Brabant, died 1095, had four daughters, none of which are
named. The online source below concurs that Count Henry had four
daughters. It states that it was recently established that one of the
daughters, Adele, married Simon 1 de Lorraine, and that another
daughter, Gertrude, seems to have married Lambert, Count of Montaigu.
A third possible daughhter is named as Ava, lady of Wavre. It states
that a precise genealogy of the Wavre family, however, is not possible
due to a lack of documents.
Adele, wife of Simon 1 de Lorraine, is ancestress of the following
individuals:
Blanche of Artois, Isabel of France (wife of King Edward II of
England), Margaret of France (2nd wife of King Edward I of England),
Geoffrey de Geneville, and Jacquette de Luxembourg.
Comments anyone?
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Source: http://webplaza.pt.lu/boursch/loutsch1.htm
Le premier seigneur de Wavre connu avec certitude est le comte Henri
III de Louvain (1079-1095), et ce en 1086. Il avait quatre filles,
dont on ne sait pas grand'chose. Récemment, il a été établi que
l'une d'elles, Adèle, fut mariée au duc Simon 1 de Lorraine (01076, +
1139) (13), une autre, Gertrude, semble avoir épousé Lambert, comte
de Montaigu (cit. 1095-1147) (14), des deux autres on ne sait rien.
D'après M. Martin, une de ces filles pourrait être Ava, dame de
Wavre, citée dès 1125 avec ses fils, mariée à un "nobilis vir"
Siger (peut-être de Pellenberg près de Louvain). Ils seraient les
auteurs de la famille de Wavre. Ceci est d'autant plus vraisembable
qu'il existe des preuves d'une parenté entre cette famille et les
comtes de Louvain, ducs de Brabant, et que, e[1 plus de la seigneurie
de Wavre, tous les alleux en possession de ses seigneurs proviennent
des comtes de Louvain.
Une généalogie précise de la famille de Wavre n'est malheureusement
pas possible faute de documents. Le fait que les Wavre se soient
éteints au début du XIVe siècle n'y est sans doute pas étranger. La
filiation s'établit à peu près de la manière suivante:
Footnote 13: Georges Pauli: La maison ducale de Lorraine, l, Michel
Parisse: Noblesse et chevalerie en Lorraine médiévale, Nancy 1982 et
note suivante.
Footnote 14: Paul Anen: Adêle de Louvain épouse de Simon 1 duc de
Lorraine. ln: Intermédiaire des généalogistes 1961, pg. 61.
-
Gjest
Re: Daughters of Henry III, Count of Louvain and Brabant, di
Douglas Richardson wrote:
Yes: be wary of online sources.
Dear Newsgroup ~
Europaische Stanmtafeln, 1 (1980): 95 states that Henry III, Count of
Louvain and Brabant, died 1095, had four daughters, none of which are
named. The online source below concurs that Count Henry had four
daughters. It states that it was recently established that one of the
daughters, Adele, married Simon 1 de Lorraine, and that another
daughter, Gertrude, seems to have married Lambert, Count of Montaigu.
A third possible daughhter is named as Ava, lady of Wavre.
Comments anyone?
Yes: be wary of online sources.