William de Fresney, father-in-law of Robert Aguillon

Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper

Svar
Gjest

William de Fresney, father-in-law of Robert Aguillon

Legg inn av Gjest » 22 sep 2006 19:37:04

In 2001, Chris Phillips and other posted a detailed reconstruction of
the Aguillon family, showing inter alia that the younger Robert
Aguillon married Margery, daughter and coheir of William de Fresney,
and left four daughters and coheirs, each married by 1239.

These daughters and coheirs were:

1. Isabella, wife of Robert de Cokefield
2. Joan, wife successively of Ralph Fitz Bernard, and then Imbert
Pugeys
3. Margery, wife of Giles Argentein
4. Eka, wife of Thomas de Poynings

Margery de Fresney had a sister, Idonea, who married Robert de la
Beche.

In 2003, Patricia Junkin contributed some details of P.R.O. deeds in
connection with the de Bosco family. These shed some further light on
William de Fresney, father of Idonea de la Beche and Margery Aguillon:

E 40/3439 Grant by Robert de la Beche and Idonea his wife, daughter of
William de Frethnei, to the nuns of Saint Mary of Wix (Essex) in frank
almoin, of all the land that William de Fretheni essarted in Swineland
[Swilland], and a tenement in the same place; witnesses included Robert
Aguillon

E 40/3691 Grant by William de Fraxineto [i.e. de Fresney] to the nuns
of St Mary's, Wix, in frank almoin, for the souls of himself and his
mother Christiana, of all the essart he made in Swineland and the
tenement of Reginald de Bosco and others there; 3s per annum to be
devoted to clothing the nuns.

We see here that William de Fresney (also called Frethnei and
Fraxineto) was the son of a Christiana.

Further clues about his parentage may be provided in the following
additional P.R.O. deeds:

E 210/7655 Quitclaim by William de Fraxino, son of Osmund de Fraxino,
to Battle Abbey in respect of a wood in Brightwalton, Berkshire

E 326/3767 Grant by William de Frene to Michael de Beche of land by
Eversolle which he had of the abbot of Battle in exchange for land
beneath Linoch; witnesses by the Dean of Brightwalton.

While the identitifaction is uncertain, it is interesting to note that
the de la Beches were also a Berkshire family (Swallowfield).

William had a brother, Robert, as evidenced in this deed:

E 40/770 Confirmation by William, abbot of Albemarle, to Idonea,
prioress, and the nuns of St Mary of Wix; witnesses: William de
Fraxino, Robert his brother (Essex).

I would also like to offer a speculation - nothing more than this -
about his mother Christiana. A further deed in connection with Wix (E
40/29) records the grant of property by one Duncan de Lascelles and
Christiana his wife to Wix Priory, in exchange for land granted by
Christiana, daughter of Ralph de Windsor (the de Windsor were the
founders of Wix Priory). Could this latter be the mother of William de
Fresney? A descent from the de Windsors would explain why a Berkshire
man would have an interest in an Essex priory.

Michael Andrews-Reading

John Brandon

Re: William de Fresney, father-in-law of Robert Aguillon

Legg inn av John Brandon » 22 sep 2006 20:02:54

4. Eka, wife of Thomas de Poynings

Eka ... freak

Gjest

Re: William de Fresney, father-in-law of Robert Aguillon

Legg inn av Gjest » 22 sep 2006 20:21:53

mjcar@btinternet.com schrieb:

I would also like to offer a speculation - nothing more than this -
about his mother Christiana. A further deed in connection with Wix (E
40/29) records the grant of property by one Duncan de Lascelles and
Christiana his wife to Wix Priory, in exchange for land granted by
Christiana, daughter of Ralph de Windsor (the de Windsors were the
founders of Wix Priory). Could this latter be the mother of William de
Fresney? A descent from the de Windsors would explain why a Berkshire
man would have an interest in an Essex priory.

I should add that, according to Dugdale (Baronage Vol 1, sub Windsor)
Christiana, the wife of Duncan de Lascelles, was [he "supposed"]
daughter and heir of Walter de Windsor, elder son of the younger
William de Windsor (who was grandson of Walter Fitz Other). I am not
sure how Ralph de Windsor fits in.

MA-R

Gjest

Re: William de Fresney, father-in-law of Robert Aguillon

Legg inn av Gjest » 22 sep 2006 20:24:47

John Brandon schrieb:

4. Eka, wife of Thomas de Poynings

Eka ... freak

Argh! No, just a shocking typist and a lazy copy-reader!

Try "Ela"!

(Could this name itself be a further clue to another strand of the four
Aguillon sisters' ancestry?)

MA-R

Gjest

Re: William de Fresney, father-in-law of Robert Aguillon

Legg inn av Gjest » 23 sep 2006 08:01:31

mjcar@btinternet.com schrieb:

I would also like to offer a speculation - nothing more than this -
about his mother Christiana. A further deed in connection with Wix (E
40/29) records the grant of property by one Duncan de Lascelles and
Christiana his wife to Wix Priory, in exchange for land granted by
Christiana, daughter of Ralph de Windsor (the de Windsor were the
founders of Wix Priory). Could this latter be the mother of William de
Fresney?

I suspect this charter could be of significance:

E 40/5266: "At Estan after the death of William the Lord (Henry II)"

"Grant by Alexander de Waham, to Ralph son of William, of land acquired
and purchased by the grantor round Wikes viz. the land of Horiselle and
of Cokeseie. WItnesses:- William de Hastinkes, Robert de Windesor,
William de Espine, and others (named). At Eistan after the death of
William the lord. Essex"

So, this concerns land at Little Easton in Essex, the barony of Robert
de Windsor, regarding whom there has been considerable debate as to
whether he was son of Walter the Deacon, or Walter Fitz Other.

The grantor, Alexander de Waham, was son of Walter the Deacon.
Together with his sister Edith and brother Walter Mascherel, he was
founder of Wix Priory. The witnesses include Robert de Windsor and
William de Hastings.

Could Ralph son of William be a son of William de Windsor, son & heir
of Walter Fitz Other, and the father of the Christiana named above?

MA-R

Gjest

Re: William de Fresney, father-in-law of Robert Aguillon

Legg inn av Gjest » 23 sep 2006 08:12:11

mjcar@btinternet.com schrieb:

"Grant by Alexander de Waham, to Ralph son of William, of land acquired
and purchased by the grantor round Wikes viz. the land of Horiselle and
of Cokeseie. WItnesses:- William de Hastinkes, Robert de Windesor,
William de Espine, and others (named). At Eistan after the death of
William the lord. Essex"

The grantor, Alexander de Waham, was son of Walter the Deacon.
Together with his sister Edith and brother Walter Mascherel, he was
founder of Wix Priory. The witnesses include Robert de Windsor and
William de Hastings.

Could Ralph son of William be a son of William de Windsor, son & heir
of Walter Fitz Other, and the father of the Christiana named above?

A counter-view is offered by this charter:

E 42/301: Alexander de Waham, together with William son of Robert his
lord, Helewis the said Robert's wife, and Robert de Hastinges their son
and heir to Wix Nunnery: Grant, at her request, of the dower Alice his
wife, being one-third of the town of Wix, etc.

We see here that Alexander's overlord was a Robert, married to a
Helewise, with two sons: Robert de Hastings, his heir, and William.

Who is "William the Lord" whose death is referred to in the earlier
charter? Can anyone identify this Robert de Hastings, son of Robert &
Helewise?

Gjest

Re: William de Fresney, father-in-law of Robert Aguillon

Legg inn av Gjest » 23 sep 2006 08:27:10

m...@btinternet.com schrieb:

Who is "William the Lord" whose death is referred to in the earlier
charter? Can anyone identify this Robert de Hastings, son of Robert &
Helewise?

To complicate matters, Domesday Descendants has:

Willelm de Hastings, son of Robert fitz Walter, lord of Little Easton.
By
his wife Helewise de Guerres he had issue Robert of Hastings, William
of
Hastings, Ralph of Hastings, Alexander and John (Ancient Deeds, A.
13694)

Thus we have:

1. Robert fitz Walter [whichever Walter this was], Lord of Little
Easton. Perhaps married a daughter of Walter Fitz Other de Windsor;
called Robert de Windsor. Issue:

2. William, called de Hastings; married Helewise de Guerres and had
issue:

3a. Robert de Hastings
3b. William de Hastings
3c. Ralph de Hastings
3d. Alexander
3e. John

Could the transcription of E 42/301 be incorrect is making Helewise and
Robert de Hastings the wife and son & heir of Robert rather than of
William fitz Robert?

Thus, we may be considering that Ralph de Windsor is to be equated with
Ralph de Hastings.

Some further PRO deeds:

E 40/784: Grant by Ranulf son of Gerard, to Ralph de Hastings, of the
land of Cochenheie and Fogeleslonde, to be held as Alexander de Walia,
Ranulf's uncle, formerly held them, paying 13s. 4d. yearly. If Ranulf
or his heirs give five marcs or more as a relief from their land, Ralph
or his heirs shall give 10s. if less than five marcs, they shall give
half a marc. If Ranulf makes his eldest son a knight, Ralph will give
3s. towards it, and 2s. towards marrying the eldest daughter, &c.,
Witnesses:- Robert de Hastings, Peter de Kerteling, Maurice de
Dodenalle, William de Spineto, and others (named). Essex

[Who is this Ranulf son of Gerard, described as nephew of Alexander de
Walia - presumably to be equated with Alexander de Waham?]

E 42/389: Wix Nunnery (Idonea, prioress) to Ralph de Hasting, their
patron: Grant of the chapelry held by his predecessors in his court of
Wix: [Essex]

E 40/492: Release by James the Clerk of Faierstede, to Ralph de
Hastings, of all his lands in Faierstede, for four marcs and for the
land of Smethedale, with the messuage of that land in Faierstede.
Witnesses:- Robert and John de Hastings, William Carbunel, William, son
of Robert de Hastings, Aelard de Graveni, Master Roger de Clare, Roger
de Raimes, Peter de Ramesia, and others (named). Essex

Gjest

Re: William de Fresney, father-in-law of Robert Aguillon

Legg inn av Gjest » 23 sep 2006 09:16:39

mjcar@btinternet.com schrieb:

mjcar@btinternet.com schrieb:

"Grant by Alexander de Waham, to Ralph son of William, of land acquired
and purchased by the grantor round Wikes viz. the land of Horiselle and
of Cokeseie. WItnesses:- William de Hastinkes, Robert de Windesor,
William de Espine, and others (named). At Eistan after the death of
William the lord. Essex"

The grantor, Alexander de Waham, was son of Walter the Deacon.
Together with his sister Edith and brother Walter Mascherel, he was
founder of Wix Priory. The witnesses include Robert de Windsor and
William de Hastings.

I see from the archives we went around the houses on this very family
about 7 years ago. I presume no consensus resolution has appeared
since.

Once further note: I have been struggling to see how Walter de Windsor
(who granted Wormingford and Swilland churches to Wix Priory) could
have obtained lands formerly of the patrimony of Walter the Deacon.
However, I note that Round proposes that Walter's mother Christiana was
"Christiana de Wiham" (ff 1166); she must have been a member of the
family of Alexander de Waham.

Svar

Gå tilbake til «soc.genealogy.medieval»