Dear fellow "genealogist",
This morning I discovered that my wife and I may share some ancestors, viz. VON SPONHEIM.
It would be great if someone on this list can prove, what might be a "possibility" : sharing some ancestors
Who can link the following Von SPONHEIM's????
My wife's ancestor:
GERTRUDIS VON SPONHEIM, who was married to ROBRECHT III VAN HEUSDEN, Lord of "Heusden" (in the Netherlands), born in the year 940, died in the year 972, son of JAN VAN HEUSDEN and MARGARETHA VAN LOON.
One of my SPONHEIM ancestors:
EVERHARD VON SPONHEIMH, son of GARIBO IV VAN LOEBEN
(LöWEN)? and ??? Everhard was married to
HEDWIG VON NELLENBURGH.
From this marriage:
1 SIGFRIED VON SPONHEIM, count von Sponheim and im Lavantthal, died in Bulgary on February 7, 1065, returning from a pilgrimage to Jeruzalem. (ES-tafel 182)
Sigfried was married circa 1023 to RICHARDIS VAN PUSTERTHAL, died on July 9, 1072, daughter of GENGELBERT VON PUSTERTHAL and LUITGARD VAN ISTRIë.
My wife and I are looking forward to reading your answer (and hopefully) the proof of sharing the same ancestor(s)
von SPONHEIM.
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Peter Stewart
Re: von SPONHEIM.
Comments interspersed:
""Leo Akershoek"" <l.akershoek@hccnet.nl> wrote in message
news:000601c6d421$9eb21cc0$4c22fb3e@leobeb80801ff3...
Your source appears to have misplaced these people by a few centuries -
Heusden was not an independent lordship in the 900s, and the names Jan and
Margaretha rarely if ever occurred at this time. Margaretha scarcely
appeared in western Europe and not at all in the north before the 12th
century when crusaders brought back a cult for St Margaret of Antioch. Jan
did occur earlier, of course, but only became common after the craze for
Prester John in the mid-12th century. Also no family was identifiable as
"van Loon" in the 10th century.
The derivation of the counts of Sponheim from Aribo IV, count in the Isengau
and palatine of Bavaria, is conjectural. The existence of this Eberhard is
not proven, much less his parentage.
Again too early - this family is unknown before the mid-11th century with a
man named Eberhard who possessed the castle at Nellenburg.. He did not have
a recorded sister or daughter named Hedwig.
Siegfried is the earliest count of Sponheim known. He died on return from a
pilgrimage to Jerusalem that took place in 1065, so his date of death cannot
have been in February of that year. His wife Richgard was daughter of
Engelbert IV, count in Pustertal & advocate of Salzburg. Her mother was
named Liutgard but her family origin is not certain. The link to Istria may
have come in the following generation or by a different connection.
Millions of people share the ancestry from Siegfried of Sponheim and
Richgard, through German families and also through French ones, mainly
through the counts of Ortenburg, Berg, Blois and Nevers.
Peter Stewart
""Leo Akershoek"" <l.akershoek@hccnet.nl> wrote in message
news:000601c6d421$9eb21cc0$4c22fb3e@leobeb80801ff3...
Dear fellow "genealogist",
This morning I discovered that my wife and I may share some ancestors,
viz. VON SPONHEIM.
It would be great if someone on this list can prove, what might be a
"possibility" : sharing some ancestors
Who can link the following Von SPONHEIM's????
My wife's ancestor:
GERTRUDIS VON SPONHEIM, who was married to ROBRECHT III VAN HEUSDEN,
Lord of "Heusden" (in the Netherlands), born in the year 940, died in
the year 972, son of JAN VAN HEUSDEN and MARGARETHA VAN LOON.
Your source appears to have misplaced these people by a few centuries -
Heusden was not an independent lordship in the 900s, and the names Jan and
Margaretha rarely if ever occurred at this time. Margaretha scarcely
appeared in western Europe and not at all in the north before the 12th
century when crusaders brought back a cult for St Margaret of Antioch. Jan
did occur earlier, of course, but only became common after the craze for
Prester John in the mid-12th century. Also no family was identifiable as
"van Loon" in the 10th century.
One of my SPONHEIM ancestors:
EVERHARD VON SPONHEIMH, son of GARIBO IV VAN LOEBEN
The derivation of the counts of Sponheim from Aribo IV, count in the Isengau
and palatine of Bavaria, is conjectural. The existence of this Eberhard is
not proven, much less his parentage.
(LöWEN)? and ??? Everhard was married to
HEDWIG VON NELLENBURGH.
Again too early - this family is unknown before the mid-11th century with a
man named Eberhard who possessed the castle at Nellenburg.. He did not have
a recorded sister or daughter named Hedwig.
From this marriage:
1 SIGFRIED VON SPONHEIM, count von Sponheim and im
Lavantthal, died in Bulgary on February 7, 1065, returning from a
pilgrimage to Jeruzalem. (ES-tafel 182)
Sigfried was married circa 1023 to RICHARDIS VAN
PUSTERTHAL, died on July 9, 1072, daughter of GENGELBERT VON
PUSTERTHAL and LUITGARD VAN ISTRIë.
Siegfried is the earliest count of Sponheim known. He died on return from a
pilgrimage to Jerusalem that took place in 1065, so his date of death cannot
have been in February of that year. His wife Richgard was daughter of
Engelbert IV, count in Pustertal & advocate of Salzburg. Her mother was
named Liutgard but her family origin is not certain. The link to Istria may
have come in the following generation or by a different connection.
My wife and I are looking forward to reading your answer (and hopefully)
the proof of sharing the same ancestor(s)
Millions of people share the ancestry from Siegfried of Sponheim and
Richgard, through German families and also through French ones, mainly
through the counts of Ortenburg, Berg, Blois and Nevers.
Peter Stewart
-
Birds
Heusden Re: von SPONHEIM.
Leo,
Sorry to say but any Van Heusdens before the 11th century are figments
of imagination. Thought up by some kroniekschrijver in the 15th century
and parrotted by subsequent genealogists/historical researchers. Since
the 1960's, serious research on the Lords of Heusden has provided
knowledge that refers all those fictive persons and their fancy wives
to the dustbin. It is sad to notice that those publications go
unnoticed while farytales from times long gone still circulate.
In the second half of the 12th century appear the first lords: Herman,
Arnold (x Justine), Jan (x Aleijd). The last one was dead around 1220.
The counts of Loon are documented from the 11th century, though the
succession around 1030-1050 is not definitely known. Count Emmo could
have been a son of a previous count Giselbert or of his brother Arnold.
Hans Vogels
"Leo Akershoek" schreef:
Sorry to say but any Van Heusdens before the 11th century are figments
of imagination. Thought up by some kroniekschrijver in the 15th century
and parrotted by subsequent genealogists/historical researchers. Since
the 1960's, serious research on the Lords of Heusden has provided
knowledge that refers all those fictive persons and their fancy wives
to the dustbin. It is sad to notice that those publications go
unnoticed while farytales from times long gone still circulate.
In the second half of the 12th century appear the first lords: Herman,
Arnold (x Justine), Jan (x Aleijd). The last one was dead around 1220.
The counts of Loon are documented from the 11th century, though the
succession around 1030-1050 is not definitely known. Count Emmo could
have been a son of a previous count Giselbert or of his brother Arnold.
Hans Vogels
"Leo Akershoek" schreef:
Dear fellow "genealogist",
This morning I discovered that my wife and I may share some ancestors, viz. VON SPONHEIM.
It would be great if someone on this list can prove, what might be a "possibility" : sharing some ancestors
Who can link the following Von SPONHEIM's????
My wife's ancestor:
GERTRUDIS VON SPONHEIM, who was married to ROBRECHT III VAN HEUSDEN, Lord of "Heusden" (in the Netherlands), born in the year 940, died in the year 972, son of JAN VAN HEUSDEN and MARGARETHA VAN LOON.
One of my SPONHEIM ancestors:
EVERHARD VON SPONHEIMH, son of GARIBO IV VAN LOEBEN
(LöWEN)? and ??? Everhard was married to
HEDWIG VON NELLENBURGH.
From this marriage:
1 SIGFRIED VON SPONHEIM, count von Sponheim and im Lavantthal, died in Bulgary on February 7, 1065, returning from a pilgrimage to Jeruzalem. (ES-tafel 182)
Sigfried was married circa 1023 to RICHARDIS VAN PUSTERTHAL, died on July 9, 1072, daughter of GENGELBERT VON PUSTERTHAL and LUITGARD VAN ISTRIë.
My wife and I are looking forward to reading your answer (and hopefully) the proof of sharing the same ancestor(s)
-
Birds
Heusden Re: von SPONHEIM.
Leo,
Sorry to say but any Van Heusdens before the 11th century are figments
of imagination. Thought up by some kroniekschrijver in the 15th century
and parrotted by subsequent genealogists/historical researchers. Since
the 1960's, serious research on the Lords of Heusden has provided
knowledge that refers all those fictive persons and their fancy wives
to the dustbin. It is sad to notice that those publications go
unnoticed while farytales from times long gone still circulate.
In the second half of the 12th century appear the first lords: Herman,
Arnold (x Justine), Jan (x Aleijd). The last one was dead around 1220.
The counts of Loon are documented from the 11th century, though the
succession around 1030-1050 is not definitely known. Count Emmo could
have been a son of a previous count Giselbert or of his brother Arnold.
Hans Vogels
"Leo Akershoek" schreef:
Sorry to say but any Van Heusdens before the 11th century are figments
of imagination. Thought up by some kroniekschrijver in the 15th century
and parrotted by subsequent genealogists/historical researchers. Since
the 1960's, serious research on the Lords of Heusden has provided
knowledge that refers all those fictive persons and their fancy wives
to the dustbin. It is sad to notice that those publications go
unnoticed while farytales from times long gone still circulate.
In the second half of the 12th century appear the first lords: Herman,
Arnold (x Justine), Jan (x Aleijd). The last one was dead around 1220.
The counts of Loon are documented from the 11th century, though the
succession around 1030-1050 is not definitely known. Count Emmo could
have been a son of a previous count Giselbert or of his brother Arnold.
Hans Vogels
"Leo Akershoek" schreef:
Dear fellow "genealogist",
This morning I discovered that my wife and I may share some ancestors, viz. VON SPONHEIM.
It would be great if someone on this list can prove, what might be a "possibility" : sharing some ancestors
Who can link the following Von SPONHEIM's????
My wife's ancestor:
GERTRUDIS VON SPONHEIM, who was married to ROBRECHT III VAN HEUSDEN, Lord of "Heusden" (in the Netherlands), born in the year 940, died in the year 972, son of JAN VAN HEUSDEN and MARGARETHA VAN LOON.
One of my SPONHEIM ancestors:
EVERHARD VON SPONHEIMH, son of GARIBO IV VAN LOEBEN
(LöWEN)? and ??? Everhard was married to
HEDWIG VON NELLENBURGH.
From this marriage:
1 SIGFRIED VON SPONHEIM, count von Sponheim and im Lavantthal, died in Bulgary on February 7, 1065, returning from a pilgrimage to Jeruzalem. (ES-tafel 182)
Sigfried was married circa 1023 to RICHARDIS VAN PUSTERTHAL, died on July 9, 1072, daughter of GENGELBERT VON PUSTERTHAL and LUITGARD VAN ISTRIë.
My wife and I are looking forward to reading your answer (and hopefully) the proof of sharing the same ancestor(s)