Xtfer C. went into Virginea maried & hath issue.

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Douglas Richardson

Re: Xtfer C. went into Virginea maried & hath issue.

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson » 31 aug 2006 15:23:43

Dear John ~

Thanks so much for posting the weblink to the Calthorpe pedigree by Le
Neve which mentions the New World immigrant, Christopher Calthorpe
(died 1662), of Virginia. You're dah man!

I might note that Le Neve's interesting volume also includes a pedigree
of the Knyvet family that is ancestral to the New World immigrant,
Muriel (Gurdon) Saltonstall, and possibly Dorothy (Beresford) Brodnax,
of Virginia. Here is the weblink for that pedigree:

http://books.google.com/books?vid=LCCN1 ... q=calthorp

The New World immigrant, Margaret (Touteville) Shepard, of
Massachusetts also descends from the Knyvet family but through another
branch of the family.

Sincerely, Douglas Richardson

John Brandon

Re: Xtfer C. went into Virginea maried & hath issue.

Legg inn av John Brandon » 31 aug 2006 16:07:13

Hi Doug,

Glad to help. Give us an update on your Margaret Touteville research.
Are you writing an article for the _Register_ or _TAG_? Or will this
research appear in your book on Baronial descents?


John




Douglas Richardson wrote:
Dear John ~

Thanks so much for posting the weblink to the Calthorpe pedigree by Le
Neve which mentions the New World immigrant, Christopher Calthorpe
(died 1662), of Virginia. You're dah man!

I might note that Le Neve's interesting volume also includes a pedigree
of the Knyvet family that is ancestral to the New World immigrant,
Muriel (Gurdon) Saltonstall, and possibly Dorothy (Beresford) Brodnax,
of Virginia. Here is the weblink for that pedigree:

http://books.google.com/books?vid=LCCN1 ... q=calthorp

The New World immigrant, Margaret (Touteville) Shepard, of
Massachusetts also descends from the Knyvet family but through another
branch of the family.

Sincerely, Douglas Richardson

John Brandon

Re: Xtfer C. went into Virginea maried & hath issue.

Legg inn av John Brandon » 01 sep 2006 20:10:31

Doug,

Speaking of Touteville, here is the funeral certificate of Sir Henry
Gate's second wife, Katherine Vaughan, which shows she had a third
husband, Robert White ...

http://books.google.com/books?vid=0KAQf ... enealogica

John Brandon

Re: Xtfer C. went into Virginea maried & hath issue.

Legg inn av John Brandon » 01 sep 2006 22:05:29

The New World immigrant, Margaret (Touteville) Shepard, of
Massachusetts also descends from the Knyvet family but through another
branch of the family.

Speaking of the Knyvet connection to Gate and Fitzwilliam, I noticed
the following in skimming through the Patent Rolls last week:

_Calendar of the Patent Rolls_, vol. III (1555-1557), p. 88:

[12 May 1556.] The like [i.e., license], for 13l. 6s. 8d., to Thomas
Darcy, knight, lord Darcy of Chiche, and Elizabeth his wife and Richard
Knyvett, esquire, and Helen his wife to grant by fine their manor of
Radford, 24 mesuages, 30 gardens, 3000 ac. land, 200 ac. meadow, 350
ac. pasture, 20 ac. wood, 300 ac. heath and 40s. rent in Radford and
Radford Semeley, co. Warwick, and their rectory of the church of
Radford and the advowson of the vicarage of the same:---to Robert
Tyrwhit, knight, and Robert Warner, esquire, and the heirs of Tyrwhit.
And licence to Tyrwhit and Warner to regrant by the same fine the
premises to the said Richard and Helen and the heirs male of Richard by
Helen, with remainders (1) to the heirs of the body of Richard and (2)
to Lucy Gate wife of Henry Gate, knight, Anne Robertson wife of
Nicholas Robertson, esquire, and Alice Varney, wife of Edmund Varney,
esquire, and the heirs of Lucy, Anne and Alice.

I was a little bothered by this, because, from Doug's research, there
should be another sister mentioned, Elizabeth, wife of Richard
Fitzwilliam. Or is it common to exclude certain relatives in
remainders (i.e., a sister who was considered to have married
particularly "well")?

Peter Jason

Re: Xtfer C. went into Virginea maried & hath issue.

Legg inn av Peter Jason » 01 sep 2006 23:15:14

"John Brandon" <starbuck95@hotmail.com> wrote
in message
news:1157144729.018919.263870@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
The New World immigrant, Margaret
(Touteville) Shepard, of
Massachusetts also descends from the
Knyvet family but through another
branch of the family.

Speaking of the Knyvet connection to Gate
and Fitzwilliam, I noticed
the following in skimming through the
Patent Rolls last week:

_Calendar of the Patent Rolls_, vol. III
(1555-1557), p. 88:

[12 May 1556.] The like [i.e., license],
for 13l. 6s. 8d., to Thomas
Darcy, knight, lord Darcy of Chiche, and
Elizabeth his wife and Richard
Knyvett, esquire, and Helen his wife to
grant by fine their manor of
Radford, 24 mesuages, 30 gardens, 3000 ac.
land, 200 ac. meadow, 350
ac. pasture, 20 ac. wood, 300 ac. heath and
40s. rent in Radford and
Radford Semeley, co. Warwick, and their
rectory of the church of
Radford and the advowson of the vicarage of
the same:---to Robert
Tyrwhit, knight, and Robert Warner,
esquire, and the heirs of Tyrwhit.
And licence to Tyrwhit and Warner to
regrant by the same fine the
premises to the said Richard and Helen and
the heirs male of Richard by
Helen, with remainders (1) to the heirs of
the body of Richard and (2)
to Lucy Gate wife of Henry Gate, knight,
Anne Robertson wife of
Nicholas Robertson, esquire, and Alice
Varney, wife of Edmund Varney,
esquire, and the heirs of Lucy, Anne and
Alice.

I was a little bothered by this, because,
from Doug's research, there
should be another sister mentioned,
Elizabeth, wife of Richard
Fitzwilliam. Or is it common to exclude
certain relatives in
remainders (i.e., a sister who was
considered to have married
particularly "well")?


How can anyone be sure of all this before
blood-type matching and DNA testing?
You know, all those Pizza, paper & stable
boys!
Is it any wonder certain relatives were
excluded.

Douglas Richardson

Knyvet, Fettiplace, Fitzwilliam, Gate, Robertson, Verney

Legg inn av Douglas Richardson » 02 sep 2006 00:59:25

Dear John ~

Thank you for posting this important record from the Patent Rolls.

In answer to your specific question, Elizabeth Knyvet, wife of Richard
Fitzwilliam, Esq., of Ringstead, Northamptonshire was the daughter of
Charles Knyvet, Esq., allegedly by his first wife, Eleanor Fettiplace.
Richard Knvyet, Esq., who is the individual involved in the item dated
1556 you posted, was the son of Charles Knyvet, Esq. by his second
wife, Anne Lacy. Thus, Elizabeth (Knyvet) Fitzwilliam was a
half-sister to Richard Knyvet, Esq.

The full sisters of Richard Knyvet, Esq., were Lucy Gate, Anne
Robertson, and Alice Verney, all of whom are named in the 1556
settlement. Presumably Elizabeth (Knyvet) Fitzwilliam was excluded
because she was a sister of the half-blood.

For an account of the family of Charles Knyvet, Esq., and his two
wives, see the Susan Johanson's database cited below. I should mention
in passing that Susan has incorrectly identified Charles Knyvet's first
wife as Agnes Calthorpe; otherwise her information is generally
accurate.

http://awt.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi ... &id=I07535

To date I've been unable to confirm that Charles Knyvet's first wife
was Eleanor Fettiplace. If anyone has any particulars on this
marriage, I'd certainly appreciate hearing from them. Eleanor
Fettiplace is called the first wife of Charles Knyvet, Esq. in
anonymous material found at the following weblink:

http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/us ... 5page.html

Special thanks go to Susan Johanson for making all of the information
on the Knyvet family available to us. Susan's generosity with her data
is greatly appreciated.

Sincerely, Douglas Richardson


John Brandon wrote:
The New World immigrant, Margaret (Touteville) Shepard, of
Massachusetts also descends from the Knyvet family but through another
branch of the family.

Speaking of the Knyvet connection to Gate and Fitzwilliam, I noticed
the following in skimming through the Patent Rolls last week:

_Calendar of the Patent Rolls_, vol. III (1555-1557), p. 88:

[12 May 1556.] The like [i.e., license], for 13l. 6s. 8d., to Thomas
Darcy, knight, lord Darcy of Chiche, and Elizabeth his wife and Richard
Knyvett, esquire, and Helen his wife to grant by fine their manor of
Radford, 24 mesuages, 30 gardens, 3000 ac. land, 200 ac. meadow, 350
ac. pasture, 20 ac. wood, 300 ac. heath and 40s. rent in Radford and
Radford Semeley, co. Warwick, and their rectory of the church of
Radford and the advowson of the vicarage of the same:---to Robert
Tyrwhit, knight, and Robert Warner, esquire, and the heirs of Tyrwhit.
And licence to Tyrwhit and Warner to regrant by the same fine the
premises to the said Richard and Helen and the heirs male of Richard by
Helen, with remainders (1) to the heirs of the body of Richard and (2)
to Lucy Gate wife of Henry Gate, knight, Anne Robertson wife of
Nicholas Robertson, esquire, and Alice Varney, wife of Edmund Varney,
esquire, and the heirs of Lucy, Anne and Alice.

I was a little bothered by this, because, from Doug's research, there
should be another sister mentioned, Elizabeth, wife of Richard
Fitzwilliam. Or is it common to exclude certain relatives in
remainders (i.e., a sister who was considered to have married
particularly "well")?

John Brandon

Re: Knyvet, Fettiplace, Fitzwilliam, Gate, Robertson, Verney

Legg inn av John Brandon » 02 sep 2006 16:59:56

Thanks, Doug, that's a sensible explanation for Elizabeth's not being
mentioned in the settlement.

John



Douglas Richardson wrote:
Dear John ~

Thank you for posting this important record from the Patent Rolls.

In answer to your specific question, Elizabeth Knyvet, wife of Richard
Fitzwilliam, Esq., of Ringstead, Northamptonshire was the daughter of
Charles Knyvet, Esq., allegedly by his first wife, Eleanor Fettiplace.
Richard Knvyet, Esq., who is the individual involved in the item dated
1556 you posted, was the son of Charles Knyvet, Esq. by his second
wife, Anne Lacy. Thus, Elizabeth (Knyvet) Fitzwilliam was a
half-sister to Richard Knyvet, Esq.

The full sisters of Richard Knyvet, Esq., were Lucy Gate, Anne
Robertson, and Alice Verney, all of whom are named in the 1556
settlement. Presumably Elizabeth (Knyvet) Fitzwilliam was excluded
because she was a sister of the half-blood.

For an account of the family of Charles Knyvet, Esq., and his two
wives, see the Susan Johanson's database cited below. I should mention
in passing that Susan has incorrectly identified Charles Knyvet's first
wife as Agnes Calthorpe; otherwise her information is generally
accurate.

http://awt.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi ... &id=I07535

To date I've been unable to confirm that Charles Knyvet's first wife
was Eleanor Fettiplace. If anyone has any particulars on this
marriage, I'd certainly appreciate hearing from them. Eleanor
Fettiplace is called the first wife of Charles Knyvet, Esq. in
anonymous material found at the following weblink:

http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/us ... 5page.html

Special thanks go to Susan Johanson for making all of the information
on the Knyvet family available to us. Susan's generosity with her data
is greatly appreciated.

Sincerely, Douglas Richardson


John Brandon wrote:
The New World immigrant, Margaret (Touteville) Shepard, of
Massachusetts also descends from the Knyvet family but through another
branch of the family.

Speaking of the Knyvet connection to Gate and Fitzwilliam, I noticed
the following in skimming through the Patent Rolls last week:

_Calendar of the Patent Rolls_, vol. III (1555-1557), p. 88:

[12 May 1556.] The like [i.e., license], for 13l. 6s. 8d., to Thomas
Darcy, knight, lord Darcy of Chiche, and Elizabeth his wife and Richard
Knyvett, esquire, and Helen his wife to grant by fine their manor of
Radford, 24 mesuages, 30 gardens, 3000 ac. land, 200 ac. meadow, 350
ac. pasture, 20 ac. wood, 300 ac. heath and 40s. rent in Radford and
Radford Semeley, co. Warwick, and their rectory of the church of
Radford and the advowson of the vicarage of the same:---to Robert
Tyrwhit, knight, and Robert Warner, esquire, and the heirs of Tyrwhit.
And licence to Tyrwhit and Warner to regrant by the same fine the
premises to the said Richard and Helen and the heirs male of Richard by
Helen, with remainders (1) to the heirs of the body of Richard and (2)
to Lucy Gate wife of Henry Gate, knight, Anne Robertson wife of
Nicholas Robertson, esquire, and Alice Varney, wife of Edmund Varney,
esquire, and the heirs of Lucy, Anne and Alice.

I was a little bothered by this, because, from Doug's research, there
should be another sister mentioned, Elizabeth, wife of Richard
Fitzwilliam. Or is it common to exclude certain relatives in
remainders (i.e., a sister who was considered to have married
particularly "well")?

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