Odinel and Simon Comyn, sons of Richard Comyn (d. 1182)

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Odinel and Simon Comyn, sons of Richard Comyn (d. 1182)

Legg inn av Gjest » 16 aug 2006 19:16:02

Wednesday, 16 August, 2006


Hello All,

In past threads on SGM there were discussions concerning
Richard Comyn (d. 1182), his wife Hextilda, her 2nd husband
Malcolm mac Madadh, Earl of Athol, and their issue [1]. These
primarily involved evidence concerning the marriages and their
issue, as documented in the Liber Vitae of Durham and other
sources.

An interesting charter was noted today in the Registrum
Honoris de Morton, being a grant by Richard Comyn (husband of
Hextilda) of land next to 'Kyngsetburne' to Holyrood priory [2].
This grant was made with the assent of his wife Hextilda and
witnessed by his sons Odinel and Simon (together with others),
1182 or before, as indicated by the following extract from the
charter:

" Ricardus Cumyn om[n]ib[u]s s[an]c[t]e m[at]ris eccl[es]i[a]e
filiis ......
assensu 't consilio Hestild' vxoris mee ...
Hijs testib[u]s [Rodb[er]to fukui Seulfi..... Odinello 't
Simone filiis meis 't Henrico Reuel .... " [3]


Given the charter indicates the grant to Holyrood was with
the assent and counsel of his heir, it would appear most likely
that Odinel was (at that time) his eldest surviving son and heir.
I am not aware of another document indicating that Richard
Comyn had a son Odinel. Hextilda evidently had a son Simon, who
has (based largely on the text in the Durham Liber Vitae) been
taken to be the son of her 2nd husband Earl Malcolm. Whether this
could be the same Simon iappears unlikely, as by the time of the
Liber Vitae entry Richard Comyn was dead, and his son William had
evidently succeeded him [4].

There is also the question as to whether Odinel and Simon were
the sons of Hextilda. Richard is not known to have had another
wife, but the name Odinel indicates a possible connection to
the Umfraville family. Perhaps Richard had a previous first
marriage to a relation of Odinel de Umfreville....

Cheers,

John *



NOTES

[1] Cf. Chris Phillips, Todd Farmerie, et al., <The Durham Liber
Vitae: Problems of interpretation: PART 1> and also
<The Durham Liber Vitae: Problems of interpretation: PART 2>,
SGM, August 2002. Also a number of other posts, too numerous
to list, to which a query "Liber Vitae Durham" will provide
access.


[2] Reg. Honoris de Morton II:2, no. 2. This can be viewed
courtesy of Google Books at

http://books.google.com/books?vid=LCCN1 ... 2&lpg=PR25
&dq=registrum+honoris+morton&ie=ISO-8859-1


[3] Ibid.


[4] The benefactors of the church of St. Cuthbert, Durham, as I
show them listed in the Liber Vitae, vol. 13, p. 100):

' Malcolmus filius Mad. et comes Athodlie
Hextilda filia Ucthredi uxor ejus
Henricus filius ejus
Simon filius ejus
Dunecanus filius ejus
Bedoch soror ejus
Kelehathoni filius ejus
Cristina soror ejus
Margareta soror ejus
Constantinus nepos ejus
Willelmus Cumin
Cristien Cumin
Edena Cumin
Ada Cumin '


* John P. Ravilious

J.C.B.Sharp

Re: Odinel and Simon Comyn, sons of Richard Comyn (d. 1182)

Legg inn av J.C.B.Sharp » 29 aug 2006 20:45:05

In article <c31.38ebe9.3214ab9a@aol.com>, Therav3@aol.com () wrote:

Wednesday, 16 August, 2006


Hello All,

In past threads on SGM there were discussions concerning
Richard Comyn (d. 1182), his wife Hextilda, her 2nd husband
Malcolm mac Madadh, Earl of Athol, and their issue [1]. These
primarily involved evidence concerning the marriages and their
issue, as documented in the Liber Vitae of Durham and other
sources.

An interesting charter was noted today in the Registrum
Honoris de Morton, being a grant by Richard Comyn (husband of
Hextilda) of land next to 'Kyngsetburne' to Holyrood priory [2].
This grant was made with the assent of his wife Hextilda and
witnessed by his sons Odinel and Simon (together with others),
1182 or before, as indicated by the following extract from the
charter:

" Ricardus Cumyn om[n]ib[u]s s[an]c[t]e m[at]ris eccl[es]i[a]e
filiis ......
assensu 't consilio Hestild' vxoris mee ...
Hijs testib[u]s [Rodb[er]to fukui Seulfi..... Odinello 't
Simone filiis meis 't Henrico Reuel .... " [3]


Given the charter indicates the grant to Holyrood was with
the assent and counsel of his heir, it would appear most likely
that Odinel was (at that time) his eldest surviving son and heir.
I am not aware of another document indicating that Richard
Comyn had a son Odinel. Hextilda evidently had a son Simon, who
has (based largely on the text in the Durham Liber Vitae) been
taken to be the son of her 2nd husband Earl Malcolm. Whether this
could be the same Simon iappears unlikely, as by the time of the
Liber Vitae entry Richard Comyn was dead, and his son William had
evidently succeeded him [4].

There is also the question as to whether Odinel and Simon were
the sons of Hextilda. Richard is not known to have had another
wife, but the name Odinel indicates a possible connection to
the Umfraville family. Perhaps Richard had a previous first
marriage to a relation of Odinel de Umfreville....

Cheers,

John *



NOTES

[1] Cf. Chris Phillips, Todd Farmerie, et al., <The Durham Liber
Vitae: Problems of interpretation: PART 1> and also
The Durham Liber Vitae: Problems of interpretation: PART 2>,
SGM, August 2002. Also a number of other posts, too numerous
to list, to which a query "Liber Vitae Durham" will provide
access.


[2] Reg. Honoris de Morton II:2, no. 2. This can be viewed
courtesy of Google Books at

http://books.google.com/books?vid=LCCN1 ... &pg=PA2&lp
g=PR25
&dq=registrum+honoris+morton&ie=ISO-8859-1


[3] Ibid.


[4] The benefactors of the church of St. Cuthbert, Durham, as I
show them listed in the Liber Vitae, vol. 13, p. 100):

' Malcolmus filius Mad. et comes Athodlie
Hextilda filia Ucthredi uxor ejus
Henricus filius ejus
Simon filius ejus
Dunecanus filius ejus
Bedoch soror ejus
Kelehathoni filius ejus
Cristina soror ejus
Margareta soror ejus
Constantinus nepos ejus
Willelmus Cumin
Cristien Cumin
Edena Cumin
Ada Cumin '


* John P. Ravilious

....Ricardus Cumin... Sciatis me dedisse Ecclesiae B. Mariae Rievallis...
consensu et bona voluntate Hextildis, uxoris mea, et heredum meorum,
Willelmi, Odinelli et Symonis, in ... elemosinam, xii bovatas terrae in
Steincroft...
Cartularium Abbathiae de Rievalle, Surtees Society, lxxxiii, 1889, p 214.

Confirmed By Hexteldis as "Comitissae de Eththetela" in the following
charter.

J.C.B.Sharp
London

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