Combining Royalty - West and East

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Leo van de Pas

Combining Royalty - West and East

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 10 aug 2006 02:15:03

What I find fascinating is that every genealogist differs from the next,
how
they collect and also differ in their individual reasons why. After many
years I have built up a large genealogical collection, mainly for the
Western World, but I have been able to touch on other genealogies as well
and find it fascinating to see what every now and then emerges. I would
like
to provide here a genealogical line and I hope that people who can add to
the more recent generations will make contact.

Heinrich I 'The Fowler', Holy Roman Emperor, 876-939
-x(2) 890-Mathilde von Ringelheim ca.890-968
/
Otto I 'The Great' Holy Roman Emperor 912-973
-x(2) 951 Aelis/Adelheid of Burgundy 931/932-999
/
Otto II Holy Roman Emperor, 955-982
-x-972 Theophano Skleraina 955/956-991
/
Mathilde of Saxony 978-1025
-x-991 Ezzo of Lorraine -1034
/
Richeza of Lorraine ca.995-1063
-x-ca.1013 Mieszko II Lambert, King of Poland 990-1034
/
Richeza/Ryksa of Poland ca.1018-after 1052
-x-1039/1042 Bela I, King of Hungary 1016-1063
/
St.Laszlo I, King of Hungary 1044-1095
-x-Adela (von Rheinfeld ?)
/
Eirene (Piroska) of Hungary ca.1088-1134
-x-1104 Johannes II Komnenos Dukas, Emperor of Byzantium, 1087-1143
/
Andronikos Komnenos, Sebastocrator, 1108-1142
-x ca.1124 - Eirene (Ainoiadissa) -1150/1151
/
Maria Komnena ca.1126-
-(2) x ca.1145/1150 Ioannes Kantakuzenos -1176
/
Eirene Komnene Kantakuzene
-x- ca.1165 Dukas Palaiologos
/
Alexios Komnenos Palaiologos, Despot
-x-1199 Eirene Komnene Angelina
/
Theodora Palaiologina 1200-
-x-Andronikos Dukas Komnenos Palaiologos -after 1246
/
Michael VIII Palaiologos, Emperor of Nicea and Byzantium, ca.1224-1282
-x-Theodora Dukaina Komnene Palaiologina Batatzina
/
Eudokia Palaiologina -1302
-x-1282 Ioannes II Komnenos, Emperor in Trapezunt 1262/1263-1297
/
Alexios II Palaiologos Megas Komenos, Emperor in Trapezunt 1283-1330
-x-1300 Djiadjak of Samatzkhe
/
Basileios Megas Komnenos, Emperor in Trapezunt -1340
-x-1330 (illegally) Eirene
/
Alexios III Angelos Dukas Komnenos, Emperor in Trapezunt 1337/1338-1390
-x-1351 Theodora Kantakuzene 1340-1400/1406
/
Manuel III Achpugas Megas Komnenos, Emperor in Trapezunt 1364-1417
-x-1377 Gulkhan (Eudokia) of Georgia -1395
/
Alexios IV Megas Komnenos, Emperor in Trapezunt 1382-1429
-x-1395 Theodora Kantakuzene -1426
/
Ioannes IV Megas Komnenos, Emperor in Trapezunt 1403-1460
-x-before 1348 (name not known)
/
Theodora Megale Komnena
-x-1458 Uzun Hasan, Khan of the Aqqoyunlu 1426-1478
/
Halima Bega Aqa -1499
-x-Haydar Safavi, Sultan -1488
/
Abdul Muzaffar Ismail I Safavi, Shah of Persia 1487-1524
-x- Khanish Khanum
/
Bahram Safavi 1517-1549
-x- (unknown)
/
Sultan Husayn Safavi -1577
-x-Kandahari Mahal Begum
/
Shahzadi Kandahari Mahal Begum
-x- Jahangir, Moghul Emperor 1567-1627
/
Jahan I, Moghul Emperor 1592-1666
-(2)x- Mumtaz Mahal ca.1593-1631
/
Aurangzeb, Moghul Emperor 1628-1707
-(1)x- (unknown)
/
Bahadur Shah I, Moghul Emperor -1712

It would be fascinating if we can continue lines to the present day.

With best wishes,
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

Gjest

Re: Combining Royalty - West and East

Legg inn av Gjest » 10 aug 2006 07:18:05

"Leo van de Pas" schrieb:

What I find fascinating is that every genealogist differs from the next,
how
they collect and also differ in their individual reasons why. After many
years I have built up a large genealogical collection, mainly for the
Western World, but I have been able to touch on other genealogies as well
and find it fascinating to see what every now and then emerges. I would
like
to provide here a genealogical line and I hope that people who can add to
the more recent generations will make contact.

Leo

I can't lay my hand on the relevant notes at present, but the
descendants of the Byzantines into the Moghul and Persian imperial
families were traced a few years ago - the results were published in
one of the American genealogical journals over three or four issues.
Unfortunately, the royal lines petered out after the early 19th
century, although relatively recent individuals were traced. If you
are interested, I'll try to dig out my notes.

Michael

norenxaq

Re: Combining Royalty - West and East

Legg inn av norenxaq » 10 aug 2006 08:36:02

mjcar@btinternet.com wrote:

"Leo van de Pas" schrieb:



What I find fascinating is that every genealogist differs from the next,
how
they collect and also differ in their individual reasons why. After many
years I have built up a large genealogical collection, mainly for the
Western World, but I have been able to touch on other genealogies as well
and find it fascinating to see what every now and then emerges. I would
like
to provide here a genealogical line and I hope that people who can add to
the more recent generations will make contact.



Leo

I can't lay my hand on the relevant notes at present, but the
descendants of the Byzantines into the Moghul and Persian imperial
families were traced a few years ago - the results were published in
one of the American genealogical journals over three or four issues.
Unfortunately, the royal lines petered out after the early 19th
century, although relatively recent individuals were traced. If you
are interested, I'll try to dig out my notes.

Michael



this appeared in The Genealogist

Gjest

Re: Combining Royalty - West and East

Legg inn av Gjest » 10 aug 2006 10:03:18

"Leo van de Pas" wrote:
It would be fascinating if we can continue lines to the present day.

See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/2185082.stm. Also, I
don't have details here but some members of the Anglo-Indian Gardner
family were/are of Moghul descent.

Gjest

Re: Combining Royalty - West and East

Legg inn av Gjest » 10 aug 2006 12:55:08

"Leo van de Pas" wrote:
Abdul Muzaffar Ismail I Safavi, Shah of Persia 1487-1524
-x- Khanish Khanum
/
Bahram Safavi 1517-1549
-x- (unknown)
/
Sultan Husayn Safavi -1577
-x-Kandahari Mahal Begum
/
Shahzadi Kandahari Mahal Begum

According to Christopher Buyers's Royal Ark website, the wife of the
Emperor Jahangir was the daughter of Sultan Muzaffar Husayn Mirza (born
1562), the son of Sultan Husayn Safavi (died 1576) - i.e. another
generation may need to be inserted here.

-x- Jahangir, Moghul Emperor 1567-1627
/
Jahan I, Moghul Emperor 1592-1666

It seems that, by his Persian wife, Jahangir had only one daughter; the
Emperor Jahan was his son by another wife (a Rajput princess, I think).

-(2)x- Mumtaz Mahal ca.1593-1631
/
Aurangzeb, Moghul Emperor 1628-1707
-(1)x- (unknown)
/
Bahadur Shah I, Moghul Emperor -1712

It would be fascinating if we can continue lines to the present day.

There were a number of other marriages between the Mughals and Safawid
princesses which give rise to descents - I will try to ferret out the
extracts I took from the article - in the Genealogist, as has been
kindly pointed out.

MA-R

Gjest

Re: Combining Royalty - West and East

Legg inn av Gjest » 10 aug 2006 20:40:33

mjcar@btinternet.com schrieb:

"Leo van de Pas" wrote:
Abdul Muzaffar Ismail I Safavi, Shah of Persia 1487-1524
-x- Khanish Khanum
/
Bahram Safavi 1517-1549
-x- (unknown)
/
Sultan Husayn Safavi -1577
-x-Kandahari Mahal Begum
/
Shahzadi Kandahari Mahal Begum

According to Christopher Buyers's Royal Ark website, the wife of the
Emperor Jahangir was the daughter of Sultan Muzaffar Husayn Mirza (born
1562), the son of Sultan Husayn Safavi (died 1576) - i.e. another
generation may need to be inserted here.

-x- Jahangir, Moghul Emperor 1567-1627
/
Jahan I, Moghul Emperor 1592-1666

It seems that, by his Persian wife, Jahangir had only one daughter; the
Emperor Jahan was his son by another wife (a Rajput princess, I think).

-(2)x- Mumtaz Mahal ca.1593-1631
/
Aurangzeb, Moghul Emperor 1628-1707
-(1)x- (unknown)
/
Bahadur Shah I, Moghul Emperor -1712

It would be fascinating if we can continue lines to the present day.

There were a number of other marriages between the Mughals and Safawid
princesses which give rise to descents - I will try to ferret out the
extracts I took from the article - in the Genealogist, as has been
kindly pointed out.

From The Genealogist, Vol 3 no 2 (Fall 1982) pp 204-227 "Sources for
the Study of Persian and Indian Royal Genealogies", and Vol 11 No 2 to

Vol 14 No 1 (Fall 1997 t Spring 2000), "The Descendants of Theodora
Comnena of Trebizond", the work of M.L. Bierbrier:

Starting with Sultan Husain Mirza (d 1576), the grandson of Ismail Shah
I of Persia (1487-1524): he had two sons, both of whose descendants
married into the Mughal imperial family of India, thus:

1. Sultan Husain Mirza, father of:

2a. Muzaffar Husain Mirza, died 1603, whose daughter (Kandahari Begum
Sahiba) married in 1609 the Emperor Jahan I, died 1666, by whom she had
one daughter, who died issueless.

2b. Rustam Mirza, died 1643, father of two sons:

3a. Badi Uz Zaman Mirza, died 1659, whose daughter (Dilrus Banu Begum
Sahiba, died 1657) married in 1637 the Emperor Aurangzeb (died 1707) by
whom she was mother of two sons and three daughters, including Sultan
Muhammed Shahid Azzam Mirza, Emperor of India, died 1707 (i.e. a
descendant of Henry the Fowler). Two of the daughters died unmarried,
but from the two sons and the third daughter, Bierbrier lists two
grandsons and a granddaughter who married, and states that 8
great-grandsons and 3 great-granddaughters are known, but that appears
to be as far as the lineage goes (with the exception of one unnamed
great-great granddaughter).

3b. Mirza Murad, father of

4. Mirza Murad Kam, died 1661, father of:

5. Mirza Rustam, whose daughter Saidat un-nissa Begum Sahiba married in
1684 as his third wife the Emperor Muizzuddin Muhammed Jahandar Shah
(died without issue 1713)

This is far as the Mughal descents appear to go; the subsequent
Imperial line seems to spring from wives other than those of the
Safawid family.

However, more recent descents are evident through the Safawid Imperial
line in Persia, for instance thus:

1. Ismail Shah I of Persia (1487-1524), was also father of

2. Sam Mirza, whose daughter married Jesse, the son of King Levan I of
Kakheti, by whom she had two sons,

and

2. Tahmasp Shah I of Persia, died 1576, father of

3. Muhammed Khuda Banda Shah of Persia, died 159-, father of

4. Abbas Shah I of Persia, died 1629, father of

5. Muhammed Bakir, father of

6. Safi Shah I of Persia, died 1642, father of

7. Abbas Shah II of Persia, died 1666, father of

8. Suleiman Safi Shah II of Persia, died 1694, father of

9. Husain Shah of Persia, died 1726, father of

10a. Razia, married Nadir Shah (died 1747)

10b. (daughter), married Ashraf Shah (died 1730, s.p.)

10c. (daughter) married Mahmud Shah (died 1725, sps)

10d. Tahmasp Shah II of Persia, died 1740, whose son Abbas Shah III of
Persia also died in 1740, the last of the Safawid dynasty

10e. Nawaba Maryam, married Sayyid Murtaza Khalifa, by whom she was
mother of

11. Ismail Shah III, died 1773, father of

12. Zainab, married Sultan Muhammed Shah (died 1794).

This is as far as my notes go. Bierbrier notes (Vol 3 No 2, p 209)
that the alleged descent of the Tunisian beylical family from the
Safawids has been disproven.

MA-R

Merilyn Pedrick

Re: Combining Royalty - West and East

Legg inn av Merilyn Pedrick » 11 aug 2006 01:31:02

Michael
That sounds most interesting. Can you post it here?
Merilyn Pedrick

-------Original Message-------

From: mjcar@btinternet.com
Date: 08/10/06 15:58:44
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Combining Royalty - West and East

"Leo van de Pas" schrieb:

What I find fascinating is that every genealogist differs from the next,
how
they collect and also differ in their individual reasons why. After many
years I have built up a large genealogical collection, mainly for the
Western World, but I have been able to touch on other genealogies as well
and find it fascinating to see what every now and then emerges. I would
like
to provide here a genealogical line and I hope that people who can add to
the more recent generations will make contact.

Leo

I can't lay my hand on the relevant notes at present, but the
descendants of the Byzantines into the Moghul and Persian imperial
families were traced a few years ago - the results were published in
one of the American genealogical journals over three or four issues.
Unfortunately, the royal lines petered out after the early 19th
century, although relatively recent individuals were traced. If you
are interested, I'll try to dig out my notes.

Michael

Gjest

Re: Combining Royalty - West and East

Legg inn av Gjest » 11 aug 2006 11:43:40

mjcar@btinternet.com wrote:
mjcar@btinternet.com schrieb:

"Leo van de Pas" wrote:
Abdul Muzaffar Ismail I Safavi, Shah of Persia 1487-1524
-x- Khanish Khanum
/
Bahram Safavi 1517-1549
-x- (unknown)
/
Sultan Husayn Safavi -1577
-x-Kandahari Mahal Begum
/
Shahzadi Kandahari Mahal Begum

According to Christopher Buyers's Royal Ark website, the wife of the
Emperor Jahangir was the daughter of Sultan Muzaffar Husayn Mirza (born
1562), the son of Sultan Husayn Safavi (died 1576) - i.e. another
generation may need to be inserted here.

-x- Jahangir, Moghul Emperor 1567-1627
/
Jahan I, Moghul Emperor 1592-1666

It seems that, by his Persian wife, Jahangir had only one daughter; the
Emperor Jahan was his son by another wife (a Rajput princess, I think).

-(2)x- Mumtaz Mahal ca.1593-1631
/
Aurangzeb, Moghul Emperor 1628-1707
-(1)x- (unknown)
/
Bahadur Shah I, Moghul Emperor -1712

It would be fascinating if we can continue lines to the present day.

There were a number of other marriages between the Mughals and Safawid
princesses which give rise to descents - I will try to ferret out the
extracts I took from the article - in the Genealogist, as has been
kindly pointed out.

From The Genealogist, Vol 3 no 2 (Fall 1982) pp 204-227 "Sources for
the Study of Persian and Indian Royal Genealogies", and Vol 11 No 2 to
Vol 14 No 1 (Fall 1997 t Spring 2000), "The Descendants of Theodora
Comnena of Trebizond", the work of M.L. Bierbrier:

Starting with Sultan Husain Mirza (d 1576), the grandson of Ismail Shah
I of Persia (1487-1524): he had two sons, both of whose descendants
married into the Mughal imperial family of India, thus:

1. Sultan Husain Mirza, father of:

2a. Muzaffar Husain Mirza, died 1603, whose daughter (Kandahari Begum
Sahiba) married in 1609 the Emperor Jahan I, died 1666

NB this is typed exactly from my notes, which I made a few years ago as
an extract of the articles; it appears to be at odds with other
sources, which states that Kandahari Begum was the wife of the Emperor
Jahangir, father (by another wife) of Shah Jahan

by whom she had
one daughter, who died issueless.

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