Robert Cokayne or Kayne?
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
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Gjest
Re: Robert Cokayne or Kayne?
John Brandon schrieb:
Isn't the footnote saying that the original register entry for the
licence is damaged, and the only legible part is "Robert ---kayne",
from which "Cokayne" has been surmised/reconstructed?
http://books.google.com/books?vid=LCCNsn86025291&id=irgEAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA51&dq=%22anne+skinner
Isn't the footnote saying that the original register entry for the
licence is damaged, and the only legible part is "Robert ---kayne",
from which "Cokayne" has been surmised/reconstructed?
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John Brandon
Re: Robert Cokayne or Kayne?
Isn't the footnote saying that the original register entry for the
licence is damaged, and the only legible part is "Robert ---kayne",
from which "Cokayne" has been surmised/reconstructed?
Uh huh. But, from New England sources, we know the name was "Kayne" or
"Keane," so I'm puzzled why the editor thought there must be a prefix.
-
Gjest
Re: Robert Cokayne or Kayne?
John Brandon schrieb:
Perhaps there's an evident gap between "Robert" and "kayne" in the
original?
Isn't the footnote saying that the original register entry for the
licence is damaged, and the only legible part is "Robert ---kayne",
from which "Cokayne" has been surmised/reconstructed?
Uh huh. But, from New England sources, we know the name was "Kayne" or
"Keane," so I'm puzzled why the editor thought there must be a prefix.
Perhaps there's an evident gap between "Robert" and "kayne" in the
original?
-
John Brandon
Re: Robert Cokayne or Kayne?
Perhaps there's an evident gap between "Robert" and "kayne" in the
original?
Must be a gap plus a stain ...
-
Gjest
Re: Robert Cokayne or Kayne?
John Brandon schrieb:
Maybe some insect munched its way through the gap, and the Editor
couldn't resist filling in what had simply been a blank. Nicely
spotted, in any case.
Perhaps there's an evident gap between "Robert" and "kayne" in the
original?
Must be a gap plus a stain ...
Maybe some insect munched its way through the gap, and the Editor
couldn't resist filling in what had simply been a blank. Nicely
spotted, in any case.
-
Renia
Re: Robert Cokayne or Kayne?
John Brandon wrote:
I take it no one else on this newsgroup knows how to Google for lubbly
books?
http://books.google.com/books?vid=LCCNsn86025291&id=irgEAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA51&dq=%22anne+skinner
I take it no one else on this newsgroup knows how to Google for lubbly
books?
-
Renia
Re: Robert Cokayne or Kayne?
John Brandon wrote:
Keane is Irish. Kayne is summat else. (Seriously.)
Isn't the footnote saying that the original register entry for the
licence is damaged, and the only legible part is "Robert ---kayne",
from which "Cokayne" has been surmised/reconstructed?
Uh huh. But, from New England sources, we know the name was "Kayne" or
"Keane," so I'm puzzled why the editor thought there must be a prefix.
Keane is Irish. Kayne is summat else. (Seriously.)
-
John Brandon
Re: Robert Cokayne or Kayne?
Keane is Irish. Kayne is summat else. (Seriously.)
Oh yeah, like you know ...
-
Gjest
Re: Robert Cokayne or Kayne?
John Brandon schrieb:
The joys of collegiality.
Keane is Irish. Kayne is summat else. (Seriously.)
Oh yeah, like you know ...
The joys of collegiality.
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John Brandon
Re: Robert Cokayne or Kayne?
The joys of collegiality.
Well, I must say it is rather dumb of her to imply rigid rules of
spelling for the time period 1610-20.
-
Gjest
Re: Robert Cokayne or Kayne?
John Brandon schrieb:
Must you? Couldn't you just have disagreed civilly, and explained why?
The joys of collegiality.
Well, I must say it is rather dumb of her to imply rigid rules of
spelling for the time period 1610-20.
Must you? Couldn't you just have disagreed civilly, and explained why?
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John Brandon
Re: Robert Cokayne or Kayne?
Must you? Couldn't you just have disagreed civilly, and explained why?
No, I'm not going to bother about that, when she's just drunk and
looking to pick a fight.
Not everyone is as mealy-mouthed as yourself.
-
Gjest
Re: marriage licenses
John Brandon wrote:
Here are some other marriage licenses relating to New England
colonists:
John Mott & Alice Harrington, parents of Dorothy Mott, wife of John
Talcott
of Hartford, Ct.
http://books.google.com/books?vid=LCCN1 ... vq=mott&dq
This one is for the same Alice Harrington's parents:
http://books.google.com/books?vid=LCCN1 ... rington&dq
Abraham Tomson & Mary Rea had daughter Martha wife of Thomas Emmons
cordwainer, who went to Boston, Mass. in the 1640s, with children
Obadiah, Hannah & Samuel.
http://books.google.com/books?vid=LCCN1 ... 272&vq=rea
Leslie
http://books.google.com/books?vid=LCCNsn86025291&id=irgEAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA51&dq=%22anne+skinner
Here are some other marriage licenses relating to New England
colonists:
John Mott & Alice Harrington, parents of Dorothy Mott, wife of John
Talcott
of Hartford, Ct.
http://books.google.com/books?vid=LCCN1 ... vq=mott&dq
This one is for the same Alice Harrington's parents:
http://books.google.com/books?vid=LCCN1 ... rington&dq
Abraham Tomson & Mary Rea had daughter Martha wife of Thomas Emmons
cordwainer, who went to Boston, Mass. in the 1640s, with children
Obadiah, Hannah & Samuel.
http://books.google.com/books?vid=LCCN1 ... 272&vq=rea
Leslie
-
Renia
Re: Robert Cokayne or Kayne?
John Brandon wrote:
The 1841 England census shows only 35 people called Kayne.
Of these, 9 were males born before 1821 (approximate dates):
1. Edward, b 1816 Ireland, living Huddersfield, Printer
2. Edwin, b 1816, born & living, Gloucestershire, Superintendent of
Police (name really Hayne)
3. James, b 1775, born & living Lancashire, Collier
4. John, b 1816, living Cheshire, Labourer (wife Sarah)
5. John, b 1816 Ireland, living Cheshire, Labourer (wife Julia)
6. John, b 1831, born & living Staffordshire, Bricklayer
7. Richard, b 1801 , living St Pancras London, Attorney
8. Thomas, b 1816, born & living Northamptonshire, Farmer
9. William, b 1811, born & living Worcestershire, Carpenter
The 1841 England census shows:
146 people called Caine, of whom 20 were born in Ireland
1,128 people called Cane, of whom 113 were born in Ireland
2661 people called Keen, of whom 24 were born in Ireland
218 people called Keane, of whom 80 were born in Ireland
514 people called Kean, of whom 124 were born in Ireland
15 people called Cokayne, only 2 born before 1821, both in Notts (John,
b 1796, schoolmaster, and Thomas, b 1818, tutor)
Keane is Irish. Kayne is summat else. (Seriously.)
Oh yeah, like you know ...
The 1841 England census shows only 35 people called Kayne.
Of these, 9 were males born before 1821 (approximate dates):
1. Edward, b 1816 Ireland, living Huddersfield, Printer
2. Edwin, b 1816, born & living, Gloucestershire, Superintendent of
Police (name really Hayne)
3. James, b 1775, born & living Lancashire, Collier
4. John, b 1816, living Cheshire, Labourer (wife Sarah)
5. John, b 1816 Ireland, living Cheshire, Labourer (wife Julia)
6. John, b 1831, born & living Staffordshire, Bricklayer
7. Richard, b 1801 , living St Pancras London, Attorney
8. Thomas, b 1816, born & living Northamptonshire, Farmer
9. William, b 1811, born & living Worcestershire, Carpenter
The 1841 England census shows:
146 people called Caine, of whom 20 were born in Ireland
1,128 people called Cane, of whom 113 were born in Ireland
2661 people called Keen, of whom 24 were born in Ireland
218 people called Keane, of whom 80 were born in Ireland
514 people called Kean, of whom 124 were born in Ireland
15 people called Cokayne, only 2 born before 1821, both in Notts (John,
b 1796, schoolmaster, and Thomas, b 1818, tutor)
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Douglas Richardson
Re: marriage licenses
Dear Leslie ~
Thank you for your good post.
Thomas Harington, whose marriage license dated 1577 you posted, is a
distant ancestor of mine though the Talcott family of New England.
Thomas Harington's father was John Harington (died 1573), of
Finchingfield, Essex, whose probable brother, Edmund Harington,
Esquire, is a proven ancestor of Prince Charles' wife, Camilla Parker
Bowles. Edmund Harington is alleged to have been a descendant of the
Harington family of Exton, Rutland.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: www. royalancestry. net
lmahler@att.net wrote:
Thank you for your good post.
Thomas Harington, whose marriage license dated 1577 you posted, is a
distant ancestor of mine though the Talcott family of New England.
Thomas Harington's father was John Harington (died 1573), of
Finchingfield, Essex, whose probable brother, Edmund Harington,
Esquire, is a proven ancestor of Prince Charles' wife, Camilla Parker
Bowles. Edmund Harington is alleged to have been a descendant of the
Harington family of Exton, Rutland.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: www. royalancestry. net
lmahler@att.net wrote:
John Brandon wrote:
http://books.google.com/books?vid=LCCNs ... ne+skinner
Here are some other marriage licenses relating to New England
colonists:
John Mott & Alice Harrington, parents of Dorothy Mott, wife of John
Talcott
of Hartford, Ct.
http://books.google.com/books?vid=LCCN1 ... vq=mott&dq
This one is for the same Alice Harrington's parents:
http://books.google.com/books?vid=LCCN1 ... rington&dq
Abraham Tomson & Mary Rea had daughter Martha wife of Thomas Emmons
cordwainer, who went to Boston, Mass. in the 1640s, with children
Obadiah, Hannah & Samuel.
http://books.google.com/books?vid=LCCN1 ... 272&vq=rea
Leslie
-
Leo van de Pas
Re: marriage licenses
----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Richardson" <royalancestry@msn.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 5:35 PM
Subject: Re: marriage licenses
Dear Douglas,
You only add the knowledge that you are a descendant of the Harington
family. I hope you can elaborate about "Edmund Harington, a proven ancestor
of Camilla Duchess of Cornwall. Edmund Harington is alleged to have been a
descendant of the Harington family of Exton."
By making Edmund a probable brother of John who died 1573, you placed him in
a time frame. Yes, Camilla is a descendant of the Haringtons of Exton.
John Harington of Exton -x-Catherine Colepepper
son
Robert Harington, of Exton died 1501-x-Maud Prisot
son
Sir John Harington of Exton died 1524 -x-Alice Sothill
son
Sir John Harington of Exton died 1553 -x-Elizabeth Moton
son
Sir James Harington of Exton died 1592 -x-Lucy Sydney this couple also
ancestors of Prince Charles
daughter
Elizabeth Harington -x- Sir Edward Montagu
daughter
Susan Montagu
son
George Sondes, 1st Earl of Feversham
daughter
Catherine Sondes
son
Edward Watson, Viscount Sondes
daugther
Hon.Katherine Watson
son
Edward Southwell, 20th Lord Clifford
daughter
Hon. Elizabeth Southwell
son
George Thomas Keppel, 6th Earl of Albemarle
son
William Coutts Keppel, 7th Earl of Albemarle
son
Hon.George Keppel
daughter
Sonia Rosemary Keppel
daughter
Hon. Rosalind Cubitt
daughter
Camilla
Camilla has at least two lines to John Harington on top of this line. In my
system I do not have an Edmund Harington or Edmund Harrington. Can you
display the proven line you know?
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
From: "Douglas Richardson" <royalancestry@msn.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 5:35 PM
Subject: Re: marriage licenses
Dear Leslie ~
Thank you for your good post.
Thomas Harington, whose marriage license dated 1577 you posted, is a
distant ancestor of mine though the Talcott family of New England.
Thomas Harington's father was John Harington (died 1573), of
Finchingfield, Essex, whose probable brother, Edmund Harington,
Esquire, is a proven ancestor of Prince Charles' wife, Camilla Parker
Bowles. Edmund Harington is alleged to have been a descendant of the
Harington family of Exton, Rutland.
Dear Douglas,
You only add the knowledge that you are a descendant of the Harington
family. I hope you can elaborate about "Edmund Harington, a proven ancestor
of Camilla Duchess of Cornwall. Edmund Harington is alleged to have been a
descendant of the Harington family of Exton."
By making Edmund a probable brother of John who died 1573, you placed him in
a time frame. Yes, Camilla is a descendant of the Haringtons of Exton.
John Harington of Exton -x-Catherine Colepepper
son
Robert Harington, of Exton died 1501-x-Maud Prisot
son
Sir John Harington of Exton died 1524 -x-Alice Sothill
son
Sir John Harington of Exton died 1553 -x-Elizabeth Moton
son
Sir James Harington of Exton died 1592 -x-Lucy Sydney this couple also
ancestors of Prince Charles
daughter
Elizabeth Harington -x- Sir Edward Montagu
daughter
Susan Montagu
son
George Sondes, 1st Earl of Feversham
daughter
Catherine Sondes
son
Edward Watson, Viscount Sondes
daugther
Hon.Katherine Watson
son
Edward Southwell, 20th Lord Clifford
daughter
Hon. Elizabeth Southwell
son
George Thomas Keppel, 6th Earl of Albemarle
son
William Coutts Keppel, 7th Earl of Albemarle
son
Hon.George Keppel
daughter
Sonia Rosemary Keppel
daughter
Hon. Rosalind Cubitt
daughter
Camilla
Camilla has at least two lines to John Harington on top of this line. In my
system I do not have an Edmund Harington or Edmund Harrington. Can you
display the proven line you know?
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Website: www. royalancestry. net
lmahler@att.net wrote:
John Brandon wrote:
http://books.google.com/books?vid=LCCNs ... ne+skinner
Here are some other marriage licenses relating to New England
colonists:
John Mott & Alice Harrington, parents of Dorothy Mott, wife of John
Talcott
of Hartford, Ct.
http://books.google.com/books?vid=LCCN1 ... vq=mott&dq
This one is for the same Alice Harrington's parents:
http://books.google.com/books?vid=LCCN1 ... rington&dq
Abraham Tomson & Mary Rea had daughter Martha wife of Thomas Emmons
cordwainer, who went to Boston, Mass. in the 1640s, with children
Obadiah, Hannah & Samuel.
http://books.google.com/books?vid=LCCN1 ... 272&vq=rea
Leslie
-
John Brandon
Re: Robert Cokayne or Kayne?
My, you are dim, aren't you! You surely must realize this data you've
posted has nothing to do with the wide range of spellings people used,
willy-nilly, in the period 1610-1620.
Renia wrote:
posted has nothing to do with the wide range of spellings people used,
willy-nilly, in the period 1610-1620.
Renia wrote:
John Brandon wrote:
Keane is Irish. Kayne is summat else. (Seriously.)
Oh yeah, like you know ...
The 1841 England census shows only 35 people called Kayne.
Of these, 9 were males born before 1821 (approximate dates):
1. Edward, b 1816 Ireland, living Huddersfield, Printer
2. Edwin, b 1816, born & living, Gloucestershire, Superintendent of
Police (name really Hayne)
3. James, b 1775, born & living Lancashire, Collier
4. John, b 1816, living Cheshire, Labourer (wife Sarah)
5. John, b 1816 Ireland, living Cheshire, Labourer (wife Julia)
6. John, b 1831, born & living Staffordshire, Bricklayer
7. Richard, b 1801 , living St Pancras London, Attorney
8. Thomas, b 1816, born & living Northamptonshire, Farmer
9. William, b 1811, born & living Worcestershire, Carpenter
The 1841 England census shows:
146 people called Caine, of whom 20 were born in Ireland
1,128 people called Cane, of whom 113 were born in Ireland
2661 people called Keen, of whom 24 were born in Ireland
218 people called Keane, of whom 80 were born in Ireland
514 people called Kean, of whom 124 were born in Ireland
15 people called Cokayne, only 2 born before 1821, both in Notts (John,
b 1796, schoolmaster, and Thomas, b 1818, tutor)
-
Renia
Re: Robert Cokayne or Kayne?
The wide range of spellings in the early 17th century was in not so very
different from the wide range 200 years later.
What has to be taken into account, is dialect, or accent.
Keane is pronounced "keen" to rhyme with "been" or "bean".
Kayne is pronounce "cane" to rhyme with "pain".
Keane was and is an Irish gentry surname. The pronounciation of Cane (or
Kayne) has a much wider genealogical base.
John Brandon wrote:
different from the wide range 200 years later.
What has to be taken into account, is dialect, or accent.
Keane is pronounced "keen" to rhyme with "been" or "bean".
Kayne is pronounce "cane" to rhyme with "pain".
Keane was and is an Irish gentry surname. The pronounciation of Cane (or
Kayne) has a much wider genealogical base.
John Brandon wrote:
My, you are dim, aren't you! You surely must realize this data you've
posted has nothing to do with the wide range of spellings people used,
willy-nilly, in the period 1610-1620.
Renia wrote:
John Brandon wrote:
Keane is Irish. Kayne is summat else. (Seriously.)
Oh yeah, like you know ...
The 1841 England census shows only 35 people called Kayne.
Of these, 9 were males born before 1821 (approximate dates):
1. Edward, b 1816 Ireland, living Huddersfield, Printer
2. Edwin, b 1816, born & living, Gloucestershire, Superintendent of
Police (name really Hayne)
3. James, b 1775, born & living Lancashire, Collier
4. John, b 1816, living Cheshire, Labourer (wife Sarah)
5. John, b 1816 Ireland, living Cheshire, Labourer (wife Julia)
6. John, b 1831, born & living Staffordshire, Bricklayer
7. Richard, b 1801 , living St Pancras London, Attorney
8. Thomas, b 1816, born & living Northamptonshire, Farmer
9. William, b 1811, born & living Worcestershire, Carpenter
The 1841 England census shows:
146 people called Caine, of whom 20 were born in Ireland
1,128 people called Cane, of whom 113 were born in Ireland
2661 people called Keen, of whom 24 were born in Ireland
218 people called Keane, of whom 80 were born in Ireland
514 people called Kean, of whom 124 were born in Ireland
15 people called Cokayne, only 2 born before 1821, both in Notts (John,
b 1796, schoolmaster, and Thomas, b 1818, tutor)