Specificities of French Medieval genealogy
Moderator: MOD_nyhetsgrupper
-
Denis Beauregard
Specificities of French Medieval genealogy
Someone asked recently why there were so few posts about
not English/American ancestry in that newsgroup.
I may have some trails for a reason but don't see how to
improve that.
- The population of France is about 1/5 of that of USA, so
ywe can't get a critical mass, i.e. enough people to discuss
about our ancestors. Even worse, the population of Quebec is
only 1/7 of France and if you add up the various descendants of
French in North America, you get something like 15 to 20 M over
300 M, about 1/12.
- The language of the newsgroup as suggested
- The problem of resources available. In France, there are many noble
books, but very few resources to link people in them to our ancestors.
So, in many cases, you have to search the local notary records which
are usually not indexed. Most vital records for nobles were already
explored in the 1920s so for most known targets, one has to check the
notary records to get more generations. But you have some families
with lower nobility, less known, that can give results while I think
anyway you will reach the limit of vital records pretty fast.
- The problem of gen. societies. The first Gen. Soc. in France
appeared in the 1950s (one existed in Quebec since 1943). This
indicates by itself some lack of interest for popular genealogy.
Before that, there were some historical or archeological societies
publishing some articles about genealogy. And the societies created
since the 1950s often focus on people genealogy more than nobility,
building databases for marriage records for example. Few societies
will discuss frequently about medieval or noble genealogy (the more
interesting is publishing Héraldique et généalogie and it is a review,
not exactly a society). Most noble or medieval data is from some
individual authors, some specialists, not from societies. I don't
know any French gen. society that built a medieval time database.
The roglo base is an individual creation, like the few other noble
databases on the net. On that point, it is similar to all other
societies (i.e. even the medieval gen. soc. won't have an internet
database).
Denis
--
0 Denis Beauregard -
/\/ Les Français d'Amérique - http://www.francogene.com/genealogie-quebec/
|\ French in North America before 1721 - http://www.francogene.com/quebec-genealogy/
/ | Mon association de généalogie:
oo oo http://www.genealogie.org/club/sglj/index2.html (soc. de gén. de La Jemmerais)
not English/American ancestry in that newsgroup.
I may have some trails for a reason but don't see how to
improve that.
- The population of France is about 1/5 of that of USA, so
ywe can't get a critical mass, i.e. enough people to discuss
about our ancestors. Even worse, the population of Quebec is
only 1/7 of France and if you add up the various descendants of
French in North America, you get something like 15 to 20 M over
300 M, about 1/12.
- The language of the newsgroup as suggested
- The problem of resources available. In France, there are many noble
books, but very few resources to link people in them to our ancestors.
So, in many cases, you have to search the local notary records which
are usually not indexed. Most vital records for nobles were already
explored in the 1920s so for most known targets, one has to check the
notary records to get more generations. But you have some families
with lower nobility, less known, that can give results while I think
anyway you will reach the limit of vital records pretty fast.
- The problem of gen. societies. The first Gen. Soc. in France
appeared in the 1950s (one existed in Quebec since 1943). This
indicates by itself some lack of interest for popular genealogy.
Before that, there were some historical or archeological societies
publishing some articles about genealogy. And the societies created
since the 1950s often focus on people genealogy more than nobility,
building databases for marriage records for example. Few societies
will discuss frequently about medieval or noble genealogy (the more
interesting is publishing Héraldique et généalogie and it is a review,
not exactly a society). Most noble or medieval data is from some
individual authors, some specialists, not from societies. I don't
know any French gen. society that built a medieval time database.
The roglo base is an individual creation, like the few other noble
databases on the net. On that point, it is similar to all other
societies (i.e. even the medieval gen. soc. won't have an internet
database).
Denis
--
0 Denis Beauregard -
/\/ Les Français d'Amérique - http://www.francogene.com/genealogie-quebec/
|\ French in North America before 1721 - http://www.francogene.com/quebec-genealogy/
/ | Mon association de généalogie:
oo oo http://www.genealogie.org/club/sglj/index2.html (soc. de gén. de La Jemmerais)
-
Denis Beauregard
Re: Specificities of French Medieval genealogy
Le Sat, 22 Jul 2006 03:36:33 +0000 (UTC), leblancr@mts.net (Roger
LeBlanc) écrivait dans soc.genealogy.medieval:
But there are other families that can be searched.
Denis
--
0 Denis Beauregard -
/\/ Les Français d'Amérique - http://www.francogene.com/genealogie-quebec/
|\ French in North America before 1721 - http://www.francogene.com/quebec-genealogy/
/ | Mon association de généalogie:
oo oo http://www.genealogie.org/club/sglj/index2.html (soc. de gén. de La Jemmerais)
LeBlanc) écrivait dans soc.genealogy.medieval:
There are a couple of reasons for which I am reluctant to post queries
to the group concerning the de Baillon ancestry. Firstly there is very
little interest from the majority of participants (many of my past
efforts have had no responses whatsoever), and secondly some of the
links seem so precarious that beating the bushes for more details might
prove counterproductive. Sleeping dogs, etc.
But there are other families that can be searched.
Denis
--
0 Denis Beauregard -
/\/ Les Français d'Amérique - http://www.francogene.com/genealogie-quebec/
|\ French in North America before 1721 - http://www.francogene.com/quebec-genealogy/
/ | Mon association de généalogie:
oo oo http://www.genealogie.org/club/sglj/index2.html (soc. de gén. de La Jemmerais)
-
CE Wood
Re: Specificities of French Medieval genealogy
Hmmm. A search of gen.med for Baillon postings turned up 25 pages
dating from June 2006 to June 1996.
CE Wood
Roger LeBlanc wrote:
dating from June 2006 to June 1996.
CE Wood
Roger LeBlanc wrote:
There are a couple of reasons for which I am reluctant to post queries
to the group concerning the de Baillon ancestry. Firstly there is very
little interest from the majority of participants (many of my past
efforts have had no responses whatsoever), and secondly some of the
links seem so precarious that beating the bushes for more details might
prove counterproductive. Sleeping dogs, etc.
Roger LeBlanc
-
Roger LeBlanc
Re: Specificities of French Medieval genealogy
There are a couple of reasons for which I am reluctant to post queries
to the group concerning the de Baillon ancestry. Firstly there is very
little interest from the majority of participants (many of my past
efforts have had no responses whatsoever), and secondly some of the
links seem so precarious that beating the bushes for more details might
prove counterproductive. Sleeping dogs, etc.
Roger LeBlanc
to the group concerning the de Baillon ancestry. Firstly there is very
little interest from the majority of participants (many of my past
efforts have had no responses whatsoever), and secondly some of the
links seem so precarious that beating the bushes for more details might
prove counterproductive. Sleeping dogs, etc.
Roger LeBlanc
-
Gjest
Re: Specificities of French Medieval genealogy
Denis Beauregard wrote:
Why not post in French? Many readers can read it; others may find ways
to translate it or, if it is a valuable posting, someone may volunteer
to translate it. I would hope that language would not be too much of a
barrier. The group would suffer from the limited perspectives presented
by the English-speakers.
- The language of the newsgroup as suggested
is)
Why not post in French? Many readers can read it; others may find ways
to translate it or, if it is a valuable posting, someone may volunteer
to translate it. I would hope that language would not be too much of a
barrier. The group would suffer from the limited perspectives presented
by the English-speakers.
-
Gjest
Re: Specificities of French Medieval genealogy
Roger LeBlanc wrote:
Dear Roger,
I can only encourage you not to be reluctant anymore. I am not talking
about you, but I cannot understand why genealogists do read
soc.genealogy.medieval or others groups and keep their comments or
potential input for themselves. I had the experience recently
(May-June 2006) with the topic New Royal Gateway for Amiot Descendants
on this discussion group. Many genealogists told me their comments
verbally, I asked them why they were not sending messages to the group
so their comments could be shared by everyone, they could not come up
with an answer. The language barrier could be an explanation, who
knows. Others might believe, alas, that participation to a group is
for a restricted group only.
Have a good day everyone,
R.-Yves Gagné
Longueval Research Project
http://www.habitant.org/longueval
There are a couple of reasons for which I am reluctant to post queries
to the group concerning the de Baillon ancestry
Dear Roger,
I can only encourage you not to be reluctant anymore. I am not talking
about you, but I cannot understand why genealogists do read
soc.genealogy.medieval or others groups and keep their comments or
potential input for themselves. I had the experience recently
(May-June 2006) with the topic New Royal Gateway for Amiot Descendants
on this discussion group. Many genealogists told me their comments
verbally, I asked them why they were not sending messages to the group
so their comments could be shared by everyone, they could not come up
with an answer. The language barrier could be an explanation, who
knows. Others might believe, alas, that participation to a group is
for a restricted group only.
Have a good day everyone,
R.-Yves Gagné
Longueval Research Project
http://www.habitant.org/longueval
-
Denis P. DuLong
Re: Specificities of French Medieval genealogy
Roger,
I would encourage you to post your thoughts, questions, and findings. I
have read your comments in the past with great interest.
JP
I would encourage you to post your thoughts, questions, and findings. I
have read your comments in the past with great interest.
JP
-
Denis P. DuLong
Re: Specificities of French Medieval genealogy
All sound reasons Denis, but I also wonder if there is just a general
lack of interest in nobles and royals among people of French ancestry in
North America. Many people I know in the Midwest are more interested in
proving descent from Indians than from royals.
JP
lack of interest in nobles and royals among people of French ancestry in
North America. Many people I know in the Midwest are more interested in
proving descent from Indians than from royals.
JP
-
L B Hansen
Re: Specificities of French Medieval genealogy
I would agree that I have also seen the American Indian trend. It appears to be in vogue right now. L
"Denis P. DuLong" <dulongd@habitant.org> wrote: All sound reasons Denis, but I also wonder if there is just a general
lack of interest in nobles and royals among people of French ancestry in
North America. Many people I know in the Midwest are more interested in
proving descent from Indians than from royals.
JP
---------------------------------
See the all-new, redesigned Yahoo.com. Check it out.
"Denis P. DuLong" <dulongd@habitant.org> wrote: All sound reasons Denis, but I also wonder if there is just a general
lack of interest in nobles and royals among people of French ancestry in
North America. Many people I know in the Midwest are more interested in
proving descent from Indians than from royals.
JP
---------------------------------
See the all-new, redesigned Yahoo.com. Check it out.
-
Gjest
Re: Specificities of French Medieval genealogy
Merci, Denis, pour votre reponse informative. Votre observation que
c'est peut etre Pontlo et pas Ponthaut est tres interessant. Moi aussi
je pense que ce sont des lectures d'un seul endroit.
J'ai visite la site de la Noblesse Bretonne. J'ai trouver la un
"Guillaume Poullain, Seigneur de Pontlo et du Val" Cette individu est
probablement pas Guillaume Du Val, Seigneur du Pontlo, mais les nommes
des deux seigneuries, "du Val' et "de Pontlo" suggere un possibilitie
d'une connection.
There is also a "Pierre Poullain du Val Pontlo" M. Yeurc'h lists the
source of that name as "CONEN de SAINT-LUC 1915" Could it be that
Duval and Pontlo are, in effect, dit names, with the surname Poullain
left behind in France? Something similar happened with many dit names
in Canada. This Pierre Poullain du Val Pontlo died after 11 January
1649, he was married on 25 February 1623 to Francoise Jegado. He was
Sieur de Pontlo and du Val des Landes.
Obviously, if there is a connection, this Pierre would probably be a
couple generations prior to Francois.
This is just speculation, with no proof or evidence of any connection,
other than the suggestion of the possibility through the similarity of
the names. However, perhaps this helps to localize a starting point
for further research. The source cited on the web site, in full, is
CONEN de SAINT-LUC, "Notice paroissiale : Mahalon", BSAF, 1915, t.
XLII, p. 106-138
BSAF stands for Bulletin de La Societe Archaeologique du Finistere.
Gerard
Denis Beauregard wrote:
c'est peut etre Pontlo et pas Ponthaut est tres interessant. Moi aussi
je pense que ce sont des lectures d'un seul endroit.
J'ai visite la site de la Noblesse Bretonne. J'ai trouver la un
"Guillaume Poullain, Seigneur de Pontlo et du Val" Cette individu est
probablement pas Guillaume Du Val, Seigneur du Pontlo, mais les nommes
des deux seigneuries, "du Val' et "de Pontlo" suggere un possibilitie
d'une connection.
There is also a "Pierre Poullain du Val Pontlo" M. Yeurc'h lists the
source of that name as "CONEN de SAINT-LUC 1915" Could it be that
Duval and Pontlo are, in effect, dit names, with the surname Poullain
left behind in France? Something similar happened with many dit names
in Canada. This Pierre Poullain du Val Pontlo died after 11 January
1649, he was married on 25 February 1623 to Francoise Jegado. He was
Sieur de Pontlo and du Val des Landes.
Obviously, if there is a connection, this Pierre would probably be a
couple generations prior to Francois.
This is just speculation, with no proof or evidence of any connection,
other than the suggestion of the possibility through the similarity of
the names. However, perhaps this helps to localize a starting point
for further research. The source cited on the web site, in full, is
CONEN de SAINT-LUC, "Notice paroissiale : Mahalon", BSAF, 1915, t.
XLII, p. 106-138
BSAF stands for Bulletin de La Societe Archaeologique du Finistere.
Gerard
Denis Beauregard wrote:
Le 31 Jul 2006 19:01:06 -0700, gerryp287@yahoo.com écrivait dans
soc.genealogy.medieval:
Dear Bertrand:
One Francois Duval du Ponthaut, from Ponsot in Bretagne, son of
Seigneur du Ponthaut Guillaume Duval and Marguerite Giguelle, emigrated
to Canada. He married in Riviere Ouelle, Canada in January of 1692.
According to Tanguay, he was born in Ponsot, Bretagne in 1657. He was
a Soldat des Troupes de La Marine, in the Compagnie de Louvigny. The
information I have comes from Canadian records, and the names of the
places and the seigneurie may not have been correctly transcribed in
Canada. For instance, du Ponthaut was often incorrectly written in
Canadian records as Dupaulo or Dupolo. I am aware that his father
being a seigneur does not equate with being part of the nobility, but I
was wondering if that name or seigneurie are familiar to you. The fact
he was an enlisted man in the Troupes de La Marine would also seem to
indicate a non-noble origin. Would you have suggestions as to how
someone not in France could research this line, whether noble or not?
En résumé, nous avons:
http://www.francogene.com/genealogie-quebec/008/826.php
DUVAL, Guillaume (..)
* mariés avant 1670, de Le Ponthou (Finistère : 290219), France
GIQUELLE, Marie (..)
1) François, né vers 1670 Ponthou (Le) (Finistère : 290219),
France, marié Rivière-Ouelle (Qc) 1692-01-21 Marie Anne BOUCHER
Le lieu d'origine peut être interprété de différentes façons.
Selon le mariage au PRDH, l'origine est "duponthaut, bretagne"
et son père est seigneur, ce que Jetté semble interpréter comme
"son père est seigneur du Ponthaut). C'est aussi Jetté qui
propose Le Ponthou (29) comme lieu d'origine. J'ai l'impression
qu'il transforme le duponthaut en deux endroits différents.
Parmi les autres lectures du surnom de DUVAL, nous avons DUPONTLO.
On ne peut pas dire, pour le moment, que c'est PONTHAUT ou PONTLO
ou PONTHOU ou un autre endroit, mais je pense que ce sont des
lectures d'un seul endroit et non deux endroits différents. Je
pencherais pour L au lieu de H vu que le nom devient DUPOLO.
Serait-ce tout simplement DU PONT L'EAU ?
Si on regarde dans l'armorial alphabétique de 1696, il y a des
DU VAL de BEAUMONTEL en Normandie et des DU VAL de Dampierre
en Champagne. Aucun en Bretagne et rien qui ressemble à DUPONTLAU.
St-Allais a d'autres DUVAL: (1) 337 et (13) 302 en Bourgogne,
DU VAL de la Houssaye (15) 340 en Champagne et DU VAL de
Tocqueville (13) 437 en Normandie.
Si on regarde les communes de Bretagne, on a:
Pont-Melvez, Pontrieux (22)
Pont-Aven, Pont-Croix, Pont-de-Buis-lès-Quimerch, Pont-l'Abbé,
Port-Launay, Le Ponthou (29)
Pont-Péan, Paimpont, Pont-Réan (35)
Pontchâteau, Pont-James, Pont-Saint-Martin, Pont-Rousseau
près Rezé (44)
Taupont, Noyal-Pontivy, Pontivy, Pont-Scorff, Port-Louis, Kerpont,
Pont-Augan (56)
Apparemment, aucune famille DU VAL bretonne importante ou reconnue
comme noble en 1696. Il faudrait donc regarder les nobiliaires
régionaux. Je ne pourrai pas regarder Jallobert ou le dictionnaire
du parlement de Bretagne avant la semaine prochaine.
Denis
--
0 Denis Beauregard -
/\/ Les Français d'Amérique - http://www.francogene.com/genealogie-quebec/
|\ French in North America before 1721 - http://www.francogene.com/quebec-genealogy/
/ | Mon association de généalogie:
oo oo http://www.genealogie.org/club/sglj/index2.html (soc. de gén. de La Jemmerais)
-
Gjest
Re: Specificities of French Medieval genealogy
Merci, Denis, pour votre reponse informative. Votre observation que
c'est peut etre Pontlo et pas Ponthaut est tres interessant. Moi aussi
je pense que ce sont des lectures d'un seul endroit.
J'ai visite la site de la Noblesse Bretonne. J'ai trouver la un
"Guillaume Poullain, Seigneur de Pontlo et du Val" Cette individu est
probablement pas Guillaume Du Val, Seigneur du Pontlo, mais les nommes
des deux seigneuries, "du Val' et "de Pontlo" suggere un possibilitie
d'une connection.
There is also a "Pierre Poullain du Val Pontlo" M. Yeurc'h lists the
source of that name as "CONEN de SAINT-LUC 1915" Could it be that
Duval and Pontlo are, in effect, dit names, with the surname Poullain
left behind in France? Something similar happened with many dit names
in Canada. This Pierre Poullain du Val Pontlo died after 11 January
1649, he was married on 25 February 1623 to Francoise Jegado. He was
Sieur de Pontlo and du Val des Landes.
Obviously, if there is a connection, this Pierre would probably be a
couple generations prior to Francois.
This is just speculation, with no proof or evidence of any connection,
other than the suggestion of the possibility through the similarity of
the names. However, perhaps this helps to localize a starting point
for further research. The source cited on the web site, in full, is
CONEN de SAINT-LUC, "Notice paroissiale : Mahalon", BSAF, 1915, t.
XLII, p. 106-138
BSAF stands for Bulletin de La Societe Archaeologique du Finistere.
Gerard
Denis Beauregard wrote:
c'est peut etre Pontlo et pas Ponthaut est tres interessant. Moi aussi
je pense que ce sont des lectures d'un seul endroit.
J'ai visite la site de la Noblesse Bretonne. J'ai trouver la un
"Guillaume Poullain, Seigneur de Pontlo et du Val" Cette individu est
probablement pas Guillaume Du Val, Seigneur du Pontlo, mais les nommes
des deux seigneuries, "du Val' et "de Pontlo" suggere un possibilitie
d'une connection.
There is also a "Pierre Poullain du Val Pontlo" M. Yeurc'h lists the
source of that name as "CONEN de SAINT-LUC 1915" Could it be that
Duval and Pontlo are, in effect, dit names, with the surname Poullain
left behind in France? Something similar happened with many dit names
in Canada. This Pierre Poullain du Val Pontlo died after 11 January
1649, he was married on 25 February 1623 to Francoise Jegado. He was
Sieur de Pontlo and du Val des Landes.
Obviously, if there is a connection, this Pierre would probably be a
couple generations prior to Francois.
This is just speculation, with no proof or evidence of any connection,
other than the suggestion of the possibility through the similarity of
the names. However, perhaps this helps to localize a starting point
for further research. The source cited on the web site, in full, is
CONEN de SAINT-LUC, "Notice paroissiale : Mahalon", BSAF, 1915, t.
XLII, p. 106-138
BSAF stands for Bulletin de La Societe Archaeologique du Finistere.
Gerard
Denis Beauregard wrote:
Le 31 Jul 2006 19:01:06 -0700, gerryp287@yahoo.com écrivait dans
soc.genealogy.medieval:
Dear Bertrand:
One Francois Duval du Ponthaut, from Ponsot in Bretagne, son of
Seigneur du Ponthaut Guillaume Duval and Marguerite Giguelle, emigrated
to Canada. He married in Riviere Ouelle, Canada in January of 1692.
According to Tanguay, he was born in Ponsot, Bretagne in 1657. He was
a Soldat des Troupes de La Marine, in the Compagnie de Louvigny. The
information I have comes from Canadian records, and the names of the
places and the seigneurie may not have been correctly transcribed in
Canada. For instance, du Ponthaut was often incorrectly written in
Canadian records as Dupaulo or Dupolo. I am aware that his father
being a seigneur does not equate with being part of the nobility, but I
was wondering if that name or seigneurie are familiar to you. The fact
he was an enlisted man in the Troupes de La Marine would also seem to
indicate a non-noble origin. Would you have suggestions as to how
someone not in France could research this line, whether noble or not?
En résumé, nous avons:
http://www.francogene.com/genealogie-quebec/008/826.php
DUVAL, Guillaume (..)
* mariés avant 1670, de Le Ponthou (Finistère : 290219), France
GIQUELLE, Marie (..)
1) François, né vers 1670 Ponthou (Le) (Finistère : 290219),
France, marié Rivière-Ouelle (Qc) 1692-01-21 Marie Anne BOUCHER
Le lieu d'origine peut être interprété de différentes façons.
Selon le mariage au PRDH, l'origine est "duponthaut, bretagne"
et son père est seigneur, ce que Jetté semble interpréter comme
"son père est seigneur du Ponthaut). C'est aussi Jetté qui
propose Le Ponthou (29) comme lieu d'origine. J'ai l'impression
qu'il transforme le duponthaut en deux endroits différents.
Parmi les autres lectures du surnom de DUVAL, nous avons DUPONTLO.
On ne peut pas dire, pour le moment, que c'est PONTHAUT ou PONTLO
ou PONTHOU ou un autre endroit, mais je pense que ce sont des
lectures d'un seul endroit et non deux endroits différents. Je
pencherais pour L au lieu de H vu que le nom devient DUPOLO.
Serait-ce tout simplement DU PONT L'EAU ?
Si on regarde dans l'armorial alphabétique de 1696, il y a des
DU VAL de BEAUMONTEL en Normandie et des DU VAL de Dampierre
en Champagne. Aucun en Bretagne et rien qui ressemble à DUPONTLAU.
St-Allais a d'autres DUVAL: (1) 337 et (13) 302 en Bourgogne,
DU VAL de la Houssaye (15) 340 en Champagne et DU VAL de
Tocqueville (13) 437 en Normandie.
Si on regarde les communes de Bretagne, on a:
Pont-Melvez, Pontrieux (22)
Pont-Aven, Pont-Croix, Pont-de-Buis-lès-Quimerch, Pont-l'Abbé,
Port-Launay, Le Ponthou (29)
Pont-Péan, Paimpont, Pont-Réan (35)
Pontchâteau, Pont-James, Pont-Saint-Martin, Pont-Rousseau
près Rezé (44)
Taupont, Noyal-Pontivy, Pontivy, Pont-Scorff, Port-Louis, Kerpont,
Pont-Augan (56)
Apparemment, aucune famille DU VAL bretonne importante ou reconnue
comme noble en 1696. Il faudrait donc regarder les nobiliaires
régionaux. Je ne pourrai pas regarder Jallobert ou le dictionnaire
du parlement de Bretagne avant la semaine prochaine.
Denis
--
0 Denis Beauregard -
/\/ Les Français d'Amérique - http://www.francogene.com/genealogie-quebec/
|\ French in North America before 1721 - http://www.francogene.com/quebec-genealogy/
/ | Mon association de généalogie:
oo oo http://www.genealogie.org/club/sglj/index2.html (soc. de gén. de La Jemmerais)
-
Denis Beauregard
Re: Specificities of French Medieval genealogy
Le 1 Aug 2006 18:39:40 -0700, gerryp287@yahoo.com écrivait dans
soc.genealogy.medieval:
Il faut dire que les nobles ont l'habitude de prendre le nom de
leur seigneurie ou de donner leur nom à leur seigneurie. Donc,
Seigneur de Pontlo et du Val pourrait bien devenir Seigneur du Val
et de Pontlo ou Du Val, seigneur de Pontlo.
En tous cas, c'est une bonne piste à explorer.
Nous recherchons Guillaume et Marie Giquelle dont le fils est né
vers 1670. Sur le site, il y a Guillaume et Catherine Hammonel
qui pourraient être les parents. La source est Catalogue généalogique
de la Noblesse bretonne et il me semble qu'on a une copie à la SGCF
(je devrais y aller lundi prochain). Avec un peu de chance, nous
aurions la génération manquante, si c'est la bonne famille.
Ce serait intéressant d'identifier où se trouvent ces seigneuries,
ce qui permettrait peut-être de combler la génération manquante.
C'est la même famille.
Ce n'est pas exactement la même chose que les "dits", mais cela
fonctionne de la même façon à mon avis.
Le site Gallica contient beaucoup de bulletins de sociétés savantes.
En France, la première société de généalogie date de 1953 il me
semble. Avant cette époque, il y avait des sociétés savantes qui
publiaient des articles sur la généalogie. La BSAF a des bulletins
sur Gallica (gallica.bnf.fr et "Recherche") jusqu'en 1920, dont le
volume de 1915. En fouillant sur http://www.gencom.org on trouve que Mahalon
est dans le Finistère.
La famille Poullain est mentionnée à la page 135.
Anne de Trémillec x Jean de Jégado, seigneur de Kérollain
Pierre de Jégado x Françoise de Trécesson + 1657 sans enfant
Françoise x Pierre Poullain du Val Pontlo
Pierre
Guillaume, habitait le manoir de Tromelin vers 1666, ce manoir
étant à Mahalon (insee : 29143) et fut vendu en 1672
Ce Guillaume pourrait être le père de l'immigrant. En tous cas, c'est
une piste sérieuse et il faudrait regarder les archives de Mahalon et
des environs immédiats pour y retrouver Marie Giquelle (si c'est le
même Guillaume).
Je me demande si en regardant chaque numéro (il y a une table des
matières à la fin de chaque tome), on trouverait d'autres informations
sur cette famille ou sur une autre.
Par ailleurs, est-ce que le lieu d'origine serait Poullan-sur-Mer qui
est juste au nord de Mahalon ? Poullain ressemble à Poullan. Dans
Cousinsgenweb29, on trouve les patronymes Gicquel et Giquet.
Denis
--
0 Denis Beauregard -
/\/ Les Français d'Amérique - http://www.francogene.com/genealogie-quebec/
|\ French in North America before 1721 - http://www.francogene.com/quebec-genealogy/
/ | Mon association de généalogie:
oo oo http://www.genealogie.org/club/sglj/index2.html (soc. de gén. de La Jemmerais)
soc.genealogy.medieval:
Merci, Denis, pour votre reponse informative. Votre observation que
c'est peut etre Pontlo et pas Ponthaut est tres interessant. Moi aussi
je pense que ce sont des lectures d'un seul endroit.
J'ai visite la site de la Noblesse Bretonne. J'ai trouver la un
"Guillaume Poullain, Seigneur de Pontlo et du Val" Cette individu est
probablement pas Guillaume Du Val, Seigneur du Pontlo, mais les nommes
des deux seigneuries, "du Val' et "de Pontlo" suggere un possibilitie
d'une connection.
Il faut dire que les nobles ont l'habitude de prendre le nom de
leur seigneurie ou de donner leur nom à leur seigneurie. Donc,
Seigneur de Pontlo et du Val pourrait bien devenir Seigneur du Val
et de Pontlo ou Du Val, seigneur de Pontlo.
En tous cas, c'est une bonne piste à explorer.
Nous recherchons Guillaume et Marie Giquelle dont le fils est né
vers 1670. Sur le site, il y a Guillaume et Catherine Hammonel
qui pourraient être les parents. La source est Catalogue généalogique
de la Noblesse bretonne et il me semble qu'on a une copie à la SGCF
(je devrais y aller lundi prochain). Avec un peu de chance, nous
aurions la génération manquante, si c'est la bonne famille.
Ce serait intéressant d'identifier où se trouvent ces seigneuries,
ce qui permettrait peut-être de combler la génération manquante.
There is also a "Pierre Poullain du Val Pontlo" M. Yeurc'h lists the
C'est la même famille.
source of that name as "CONEN de SAINT-LUC 1915" Could it be that
Duval and Pontlo are, in effect, dit names, with the surname Poullain
left behind in France? Something similar happened with many dit names
Ce n'est pas exactement la même chose que les "dits", mais cela
fonctionne de la même façon à mon avis.
in Canada. This Pierre Poullain du Val Pontlo died after 11 January
1649, he was married on 25 February 1623 to Francoise Jegado. He was
Sieur de Pontlo and du Val des Landes.
Obviously, if there is a connection, this Pierre would probably be a
couple generations prior to Francois.
This is just speculation, with no proof or evidence of any connection,
other than the suggestion of the possibility through the similarity of
the names. However, perhaps this helps to localize a starting point
for further research. The source cited on the web site, in full, is
CONEN de SAINT-LUC, "Notice paroissiale : Mahalon", BSAF, 1915, t.
XLII, p. 106-138
BSAF stands for Bulletin de La Societe Archaeologique du Finistere.
Le site Gallica contient beaucoup de bulletins de sociétés savantes.
En France, la première société de généalogie date de 1953 il me
semble. Avant cette époque, il y avait des sociétés savantes qui
publiaient des articles sur la généalogie. La BSAF a des bulletins
sur Gallica (gallica.bnf.fr et "Recherche") jusqu'en 1920, dont le
volume de 1915. En fouillant sur http://www.gencom.org on trouve que Mahalon
est dans le Finistère.
La famille Poullain est mentionnée à la page 135.
Anne de Trémillec x Jean de Jégado, seigneur de Kérollain
Pierre de Jégado x Françoise de Trécesson + 1657 sans enfant
Françoise x Pierre Poullain du Val Pontlo
Pierre
Guillaume, habitait le manoir de Tromelin vers 1666, ce manoir
étant à Mahalon (insee : 29143) et fut vendu en 1672
Ce Guillaume pourrait être le père de l'immigrant. En tous cas, c'est
une piste sérieuse et il faudrait regarder les archives de Mahalon et
des environs immédiats pour y retrouver Marie Giquelle (si c'est le
même Guillaume).
Je me demande si en regardant chaque numéro (il y a une table des
matières à la fin de chaque tome), on trouverait d'autres informations
sur cette famille ou sur une autre.
Par ailleurs, est-ce que le lieu d'origine serait Poullan-sur-Mer qui
est juste au nord de Mahalon ? Poullain ressemble à Poullan. Dans
Cousinsgenweb29, on trouve les patronymes Gicquel et Giquet.
Denis
--
0 Denis Beauregard -
/\/ Les Français d'Amérique - http://www.francogene.com/genealogie-quebec/
|\ French in North America before 1721 - http://www.francogene.com/quebec-genealogy/
/ | Mon association de généalogie:
oo oo http://www.genealogie.org/club/sglj/index2.html (soc. de gén. de La Jemmerais)