what has happened to this newsgroup?

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Doug McDonald

what has happened to this newsgroup?

Legg inn av Doug McDonald » 19 jul 2006 14:24:12

What has happened? It seems that this newsgroup has stopped
being interested in actual medieval people, mostly, and has
moved to later days.

Have many usual suspect contributors moved to some other
venue?

Doug McDonald

John Brandon

Re: what has happened to this newsgroup?

Legg inn av John Brandon » 19 jul 2006 15:41:42

Have many usual suspect contributors moved to some other
venue?

Nah, they're just back in their shells, sulking, for the present ...

Tim Powys-Lybbe

Re: what has happened to this newsgroup?

Legg inn av Tim Powys-Lybbe » 19 jul 2006 16:58:16

In message of 19 Jul, Doug McDonald <mcdonald@SnPoAM_scs.uiuc.edu> wrote:

What has happened? It seems that this newsgroup has stopped
being interested in actual medieval people, mostly, and has
moved to later days.

Have many usual suspect contributors moved to some other
venue?

Well this seems to be based on some facts, so I thought I woud
investigate. My machine automatically stores the last 30 days of
postings so I though I would categorise those.

I have taken a crude definition of relevance, that the post is on
genealogy and that its main period is between 600 AD and 1600 AD. One
or two posts were on DNA which I suspect I am being prejudiced in
considering to be off topic, but DNA does not fit into these criteria.

Here's my classifications:

Title Medieval Off Topic
===== ======== =========
Calendar of the Close Rolls Y
A little more on the ancestry of Y
Francis Foxcroft
Agnes of France Y
Anna Bowes & Ralph Wycliffe Y
Aztec Royalty Y
Blanche Perry Y
Brackenhury Lineage Y
Breaking the line from Alexander Y
Napier...
Brian Cave of Ingarsby Y
Builly-Bussy Y
Castle Ward Half
Children of Agnes of Germany Y
Clinching proof of the Bromželd Prob not
line
Clue to the identity of ... Bridget Prob not
Woodward
Constance Huntley of Boxwell, Y
Glos
CP: death of Rbt, 3rd ld Clifford Y
CP Moriaty and Gilbert de Gant Y
Cuts on the beer or wine bottle Y
de Tracy - Danvers link Y
Descent of Fitton of Gawsworth Y
Did Juchi have Genghis Khan‘s Y Y
chromosome
Duke of Gloucester Half
Early Frevilles of Tamworth Y
Edward Grevilles bro-in-law Y
Elizabeth, wife of Thomas Y
Thursby
Etchingham Y
Family of William Cecil Y
Fibbs, fables and continuing Y
fairytales
Find anyone you‘re looking for Y
Frederick VI of Swabie Y
GEN-MED Digest - Fitton Y
Genealogische Handbuch des Y
Adels
Henry Whitželd Y
Heyd, Vischer, Demler ... Y
Humphrey Stafford of Hooke Y
Interesting account of Captain Doubt it

the_verminator@comcast.ne

Re: what has happened to this newsgroup?

Legg inn av the_verminator@comcast.ne » 19 jul 2006 17:10:47

Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote:

<Snip of interesting analysis>

So this post must be off topic too: sorry about that.

--
Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/

Perhaps I err but I thought posts about the group itself were
considered on topic.

--
The Verminator

Peter Stewart

Re: what has happened to this newsgroup?

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 20 jul 2006 00:12:23

This reply may be statistically interesting, but it does not address the
question posed by Doug McDonald.

He wasn't asking about the newsgroup charter and/or how threads can be
arbitrarily categorised under this: he asked about the diminishing interest
in "actual medieval people". Whatever the charter may say about "on" or "off
topic" subjects, Doug was not talking about this.

Quite obviously "actual medieval people" did not live up until 1600 (I
thought the range was 500 to 1500, but the century shift is irrelevant). If
you want to debate the statistics, how many of the threads classified as "on
topic" for fitting in by 1600 were in fact within the "later days" of the
1,000 year range, and distinctly post-medieval in tenor?

Shakespeare had already written "history" plays by 1600, and like his
audience (including any "gateway" ancestors who later made their way to
America) did not remotely consider himself as belonging in the same medieval
era as the events he dramatised.

The newsgroup has reached a point where new subjects are rarely raised
relating to the eight centuries from 500-1300 AD, and even more rarely about
people who lived outside the British Isles and North America. In other
words, a point where a change of the newsgroup's name is appropriate, since
it does not principally cover medieval genealogy.

Peter Stewart



"Tim Powys-Lybbe" <tim@powys.org> wrote in message
news:663df3484e.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk...
[quote]In message of 19 Jul, Doug McDonald <mcdonald@SnPoAM_scs.uiuc.edu> wrote:

What has happened? It seems that this newsgroup has stopped
being interested in actual medieval people, mostly, and has
moved to later days.

Have many usual suspect contributors moved to some other
venue?

Well this seems to be based on some facts, so I thought I woud
investigate. My machine automatically stores the last 30 days of
postings so I though I would categorise those.

I have taken a crude definition of relevance, that the post is on
genealogy and that its main period is between 600 AD and 1600 AD. One
or two posts were on DNA which I suspect I am being prejudiced in
considering to be off topic, but DNA does not fit into these criteria.

Here's my classifications:

Title Medieval Off Topic
===== ======== =========
Calendar of the Close Rolls Y
A little more on the ancestry of Y
Francis Foxcroft
Agnes of France Y
Anna Bowes & Ralph Wycliffe Y
Aztec Royalty Y
Blanche Perry Y
Brackenhury Lineage Y
Breaking the line from Alexander Y
Napier...
Brian Cave of Ingarsby Y
Builly-Bussy Y
Castle Ward Half
Children of Agnes of Germany Y
Clinching proof of the Bromzeld Prob not
line
Clue to the identity of ... Bridget Prob not
Woodward
Constance Huntley of Boxwell, Y
Glos
CP: death of Rbt, 3rd ld Clifford Y
CP Moriaty and Gilbert de Gant Y
Cuts on the beer or wine bottle Y
de Tracy - Danvers link Y
Descent of Fitton of Gawsworth Y
Did Juchi have Genghis Khan's Y Y
chromosome
Duke of Gloucester Half
Early Frevilles of Tamworth Y
Edward Grevilles bro-in-law Y
Elizabeth, wife of Thomas Y
Thursby
Etchingham Y
Family of William Cecil Y
Fibbs, fables and continuing Y
fairytales
Find anyone you're looking for Y
Frederick VI of Swabie Y
GEN-MED Digest - Fitton Y
Genealogische Handbuch des Y
Adels
Henry Whitzeld Y
Heyd, Vischer, Demler ... Y
Humphrey Stafford of Hooke Y
Interesting account of Captain Doubt it

Carl Boyer

Re: what has happened to this newsgroup?

Legg inn av Carl Boyer » 20 jul 2006 02:52:02

I have often considered dropping from the list because:
1) Many messages do not have headings which tell what they are about; I believe headings should include a name, a place, a date.
2) There are too many meaningless responses.
3) There is too much carping about personalities.
Instead, so far I have ignored messages from certain people.
Rather than change the scope of this group, it might be appropriate to form a new one, such as GEN-GATEWAY-L.
And yes, there is room for side comments and carping, but these can be directed to individuals, not the whole list.
Carl Boyer of Santa Clarita

Peter Stewart <p_m_stewart@msn.com> wrote:
This reply may be statistically interesting, but it does not address the
question posed by Doug McDonald.

He wasn't asking about the newsgroup charter and/or how threads can be
arbitrarily categorised under this: he asked about the diminishing interest
in "actual medieval people". Whatever the charter may say about "on" or "off
topic" subjects, Doug was not talking about this.

Quite obviously "actual medieval people" did not live up until 1600 (I
thought the range was 500 to 1500, but the century shift is irrelevant). If
you want to debate the statistics, how many of the threads classified as "on
topic" for fitting in by 1600 were in fact within the "later days" of the
1,000 year range, and distinctly post-medieval in tenor?

Shakespeare had already written "history" plays by 1600, and like his
audience (including any "gateway" ancestors who later made their way to
America) did not remotely consider himself as belonging in the same medieval
era as the events he dramatised.

The newsgroup has reached a point where new subjects are rarely raised
relating to the eight centuries from 500-1300 AD, and even more rarely about
people who lived outside the British Isles and North America. In other
words, a point where a change of the newsgroup's name is appropriate, since
it does not principally cover medieval genealogy.

Peter Stewart



"Tim Powys-Lybbe" wrote in message
news:663df3484e.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk...
[quote]In message of 19 Jul, Doug McDonald wrote:

What has happened? It seems that this newsgroup has stopped
being interested in actual medieval people, mostly, and has
moved to later days.

Have many usual suspect contributors moved to some other
venue?

Well this seems to be based on some facts, so I thought I woud
investigate. My machine automatically stores the last 30 days of
postings so I though I would categorise those.

I have taken a crude definition of relevance, that the post is on
genealogy and that its main period is between 600 AD and 1600 AD. One
or two posts were on DNA which I suspect I am being prejudiced in
considering to be off topic, but DNA does not fit into these criteria.

Here's my classifications:

Title Medieval Off Topic
===== ======== =========
Calendar of the Close Rolls Y
A little more on the ancestry of Y
Francis Foxcroft
Agnes of France Y
Anna Bowes & Ralph Wycliffe Y
Aztec Royalty Y
Blanche Perry Y
Brackenhury Lineage Y
Breaking the line from Alexander Y
Napier...
Brian Cave of Ingarsby Y
Builly-Bussy Y
Castle Ward Half
Children of Agnes of Germany Y
Clinching proof of the Bromzeld Prob not
line
Clue to the identity of ... Bridget Prob not
Woodward
Constance Huntley of Boxwell, Y
Glos
CP: death of Rbt, 3rd ld Clifford Y
CP Moriaty and Gilbert de Gant Y
Cuts on the beer or wine bottle Y
de Tracy - Danvers link Y
Descent of Fitton of Gawsworth Y
Did Juchi have Genghis Khan's Y Y
chromosome
Duke of Gloucester Half
Early Frevilles of Tamworth Y
Edward Grevilles bro-in-law Y
Elizabeth, wife of Thomas Y
Thursby
Etchingham Y
Family of William Cecil Y
Fibbs, fables and continuing Y
fairytales
Find anyone you're looking for Y
Frederick VI of Swabie Y
GEN-MED Digest - Fitton Y
Genealogische Handbuch des Y
Adels
Henry Whitzeld Y
Heyd, Vischer, Demler ... Y
Humphrey Stafford of Hooke Y
Interesting account of Captain Doubt it

norenxaq

Re: what has happened to this newsgroup?

Legg inn av norenxaq » 20 jul 2006 03:16:01

Carl Boyer wrote:

Rather than change the scope of this group, it might be appropriate to form a new one, such as GEN-GATEWAY-L.


Hello:


I recently started a group at yahoo entitled early modern genealogy that
covers around 1500-1800

anyone interested is invited to join

thank-you

Leo van de Pas

Re: what has happened to this newsgroup?

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 20 jul 2006 03:17:01

In my opinion the more subjects, closely connected to each other that can be
discussed, the better. By making splinter groups you run the risk of missing
out on the knowledge of people who basically are interested in one aspect
but have knowledge about others as well.

I agree about the meaningless responses, many (the thanks yous and further
nothing) should be directed privately to whom it concerns.

There are people who do not like Gateway Ancestors, I do, I think they are
important. Not so much themselves but the ancestors they have in medieval
times, however, I wish a few more continental ancestors were researched. I
know the language barrier is awkward but there are ways and means to
overcome those.

Also I would love to see more biographical details researched. I know they
are hard to find, most are only connected to wills and deeds, but we should
learn more about the other aspects of their lives.I am fortunate of having a
friend who continually provides me with small biographies covering the whole
medieval period, but most cover continental people. All of these can be
found on my website. http://www.genealogics.org

With best wishes,
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Boyer" <cboyer3154@yahoo.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: what has happened to this newsgroup?


[quote]I have often considered dropping from the list because:
1) Many messages do not have headings which tell what they are about; I
believe headings should include a name, a place, a date.
2) There are too many meaningless responses.
3) There is too much carping about personalities.
Instead, so far I have ignored messages from certain people.
Rather than change the scope of this group, it might be appropriate to
form a new one, such as GEN-GATEWAY-L.
And yes, there is room for side comments and carping, but these can be
directed to individuals, not the whole list.
Carl Boyer of Santa Clarita

Peter Stewart <p_m_stewart@msn.com> wrote:
This reply may be statistically interesting, but it does not address the
question posed by Doug McDonald.

He wasn't asking about the newsgroup charter and/or how threads can be
arbitrarily categorised under this: he asked about the diminishing
interest
in "actual medieval people". Whatever the charter may say about "on" or
"off
topic" subjects, Doug was not talking about this.

Quite obviously "actual medieval people" did not live up until 1600 (I
thought the range was 500 to 1500, but the century shift is irrelevant).
If
you want to debate the statistics, how many of the threads classified as
"on
topic" for fitting in by 1600 were in fact within the "later days" of the
1,000 year range, and distinctly post-medieval in tenor?

Shakespeare had already written "history" plays by 1600, and like his
audience (including any "gateway" ancestors who later made their way to
America) did not remotely consider himself as belonging in the same
medieval
era as the events he dramatised.

The newsgroup has reached a point where new subjects are rarely raised
relating to the eight centuries from 500-1300 AD, and even more rarely
about
people who lived outside the British Isles and North America. In other
words, a point where a change of the newsgroup's name is appropriate,
since
it does not principally cover medieval genealogy.

Peter Stewart



"Tim Powys-Lybbe" wrote in message
news:663df3484e.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk...
In message of 19 Jul, Doug McDonald wrote:

What has happened? It seems that this newsgroup has stopped
being interested in actual medieval people, mostly, and has
moved to later days.

Have many usual suspect contributors moved to some other
venue?

Well this seems to be based on some facts, so I thought I woud
investigate. My machine automatically stores the last 30 days of
postings so I though I would categorise those.

I have taken a crude definition of relevance, that the post is on
genealogy and that its main period is between 600 AD and 1600 AD. One
or two posts were on DNA which I suspect I am being prejudiced in
considering to be off topic, but DNA does not fit into these criteria.

Here's my classifications:

Title Medieval Off Topic
===== ======== =========
Calendar of the Close Rolls Y
A little more on the ancestry of Y
Francis Foxcroft
Agnes of France Y
Anna Bowes & Ralph Wycliffe Y
Aztec Royalty Y
Blanche Perry Y
Brackenhury Lineage Y
Breaking the line from Alexander Y
Napier...
Brian Cave of Ingarsby Y
Builly-Bussy Y
Castle Ward Half
Children of Agnes of Germany Y
Clinching proof of the Bromzeld Prob not
line
Clue to the identity of ... Bridget Prob not
Woodward
Constance Huntley of Boxwell, Y
Glos
CP: death of Rbt, 3rd ld Clifford Y
CP Moriaty and Gilbert de Gant Y
Cuts on the beer or wine bottle Y
de Tracy - Danvers link Y
Descent of Fitton of Gawsworth Y
Did Juchi have Genghis Khan's Y Y
chromosome
Duke of Gloucester Half
Early Frevilles of Tamworth Y
Edward Grevilles bro-in-law Y
Elizabeth, wife of Thomas Y
Thursby
Etchingham Y
Family of William Cecil Y
Fibbs, fables and continuing Y
fairytales
Find anyone you're looking for Y
Frederick VI of Swabie Y
GEN-MED Digest - Fitton Y
Genealogische Handbuch des Y
Adels
Henry Whitzeld Y
Heyd, Vischer, Demler ... Y
Humphrey Stafford of Hooke Y
Interesting account of Captain Doubt it

CE Wood

Re: what has happened to this newsgroup?

Legg inn av CE Wood » 20 jul 2006 03:57:04

Oh dear! There are so many condundrums and confusions remaining that I
hope this does not mean they will remain so.

CE Wood

Peter Stewart wrote:

The newsgroup has reached a point where new subjects are rarely raised
relating to the eight centuries from 500-1300 AD, and even more rarely about
people who lived outside the British Isles and North America. In other
words, a point where a change of the newsgroup's name is appropriate, since
it does not principally cover medieval genealogy.

Peter Stewart

Peter Stewart

Re: what has happened to this newsgroup?

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 20 jul 2006 07:55:07

"Leo van de Pas" wrote:

<snip>

There are people who do not like Gateway Ancestors, I do, I think they are
important. Not so much themselves but the ancestors they have in medieval
times, however, I wish a few more continental ancestors were researched. I
know the language barrier is awkward but there are ways and means to
overcome those.

I don't quite understand why enquiries about Continental ancestry are
not MORE common here than those about early modern ancestry in the
English-speaking world.

The sources are less accessible, but then surely that is all the more
reason to ask others for information.

Anyone who has found a link to the Plantagenets has acquired a vast
array of European ancestors whose lives are far better-known, and worth
knowing, than most of the information about denizens of the English
shires recorded only as names, titles, dates and property-holdings,
dusty details that many in this newsgroup seem to love passionately.
Why not spread the interest a little - if the sources for almost every
medieval person before ca 1250 are in Latin, then language is no more a
barrier to studying Italian or Polish ancestors than to those in the
home counties.

The main difference is that CP, written in English, makes for an easy,
private start in researching Anglo-Norman and later individuals, and
then for various reasons a lot of people stick within this narrow field
rather than venturing beyond it.

But a 15th-century English ancestor is remote from a living person's
experience, and the degree of relationship is unimaginably minute, so
why are earlier, more exotic and colourful ancestors - whose extra
remoteness is a mere statistical figment - of so much less interest? It
beats me.

Peter Stewart

Tim Powys-Lybbe

RE: what has happened to this newsgroup?

Legg inn av Tim Powys-Lybbe » 20 jul 2006 08:03:59

In message of 20 Jul, DianaGM@dgmweb.net ("Diana Gale Matthiesen") wrote:

<snip>

Beyond obeying rules established by RootsWeb.com, the list admin is
the one who sets the tone and the boundaries for the list. Some
admins demand a high level of civility and a close adherence to the
list topic; some do not. If you don't like a list, you unsub. If you
don't like how a list is being managed, you complain to the admin
(offlist).

And this only applies to those who participate in this group via
Rootsweb. My guess (no statistics this time) is that well over half of
contributors these days do not use the Rootsweb mailing list. So the
mailing list admin has absolutely no powers over the majority.

--
Tim Powys-Lybbe                                          tim@powys.org
             For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/

Gjest

Re: what has happened to this newsgroup?

Legg inn av Gjest » 20 jul 2006 08:49:10

Peter Stewart wrote:

I don't quite understand why enquiries about Continental ancestry are
not MORE common here than those about early modern ancestry in the
English-speaking world.



One of the problems is that sometimes the sources
simply dont exist.

For example, in Sweden, parish registers usually commence in the 1680s
or so.
Compare that with England, where some registers begin circa 1540.




The sources are less accessible, but then surely that is all the more
reason to ask others for information.


I could post about my ancestry in Alsace (near Selestat), or some from
the Haute Saone department in France, or Hainaut & Namur provinces in
Belgium. But I wouldnt expect much interest.

Again, the parish registers begin later in those places (usually 1650s,
sometimes earlier, about 1610 - which again, is not as good as England,
1540, in some cases).


Also, it seems that there are more existing medieval records for
England.
Examples are the National Archives catalog, or the A2A catalog.

Do similar things exist for continental Europe?
Can one order lawsuits / chancery suits from those countries pre 1500?

Also, the published inquisitions post mortem, close rolls, fine rolls
can be
consulted for Medieval England.
Do similar things exist for continental Europe?


Leslie

Diana Gale Matthiesen

RE: what has happened to this newsgroup?

Legg inn av Diana Gale Matthiesen » 20 jul 2006 08:54:01

It would be a rare mailing list where every message was on topic, much less of
interest. You remain a subscriber because you want to either 1) make a query or
comment, yourself, or 2) be there "live" when a topic of interest finally does
comes up. The rest of the time you hit your Del key. Otherwise, you might just
as well unsub and, instead, simply search the list archives periodically.

http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/N ... IEVAL.html

Beyond obeying rules established by RootsWeb.com, the list admin is the one who
sets the tone and the boundaries for the list. Some admins demand a high level
of civility and a close adherence to the list topic; some do not. If you don't
like a list, you unsub. If you don't like how a list is being managed, you
complain to the admin (offlist).

Diana


-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Boyer [mailto:cboyer3154@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 7:51 PM
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: what has happened to this newsgroup?

I have often considered dropping from the list because:
1) Many messages do not have headings which tell what they
are about; I believe headings should include a name, a place, a date.
2) There are too many meaningless responses.
3) There is too much carping about personalities.
Instead, so far I have ignored messages from certain people.
Rather than change the scope of this group, it might be
appropriate to form a new one, such as GEN-GATEWAY-L.
And yes, there is room for side comments and carping, but
these can be directed to individuals, not the whole list.
Carl Boyer of Santa Clarita

Tim Powys-Lybbe

Re: what has happened to this newsgroup?

Legg inn av Tim Powys-Lybbe » 20 jul 2006 09:13:16

In message of 20 Jul, "Peter Stewart" <p_m_stewart@msn.com> wrote:

"Leo van de Pas" wrote:

snip

There are people who do not like Gateway Ancestors, I do, I think they are
important. Not so much themselves but the ancestors they have in medieval
times, however, I wish a few more continental ancestors were researched. I
know the language barrier is awkward but there are ways and means to
overcome those.

I don't quite understand why enquiries about Continental ancestry are
not MORE common here than those about early modern ancestry in the
English-speaking world.

The sources are less accessible, but then surely that is all the more
reason to ask others for information.

Anyone who has found a link to the Plantagenets has acquired a vast
array of European ancestors whose lives are far better-known, and worth
knowing, than most of the information about denizens of the English
shires recorded only as names, titles, dates and property-holdings,
dusty details that many in this newsgroup seem to love passionately.
Why not spread the interest a little - if the sources for almost every
medieval person before ca 1250 are in Latin, then language is no more a
barrier to studying Italian or Polish ancestors than to those in the
home counties.

The main difference is that CP, written in English, makes for an easy,
private start in researching Anglo-Norman and later individuals, and
then for various reasons a lot of people stick within this narrow field
rather than venturing beyond it.

Add to that Keats-Rohan's pair of Domesday books and Sanders' Baronies
and there is a fair resource in English for early medieval people. Plus
of course all the abstracts of documents appearing on-line.

What you - and Leo - may not be able to appreciate is the complete lack
of skill of some people in handing foreign languages. I simply cannot
do latin; I never could, even after 8 years of learning it. Further I
was struck, as I have said before, by my brother who even got a degree
in Latin and then taught it for a few decades and who then said to me
that he could not reliably read medieval Latin as he did not understand
the words adequately. So I can't read transcripts of surviving original
documents and certainly can't read the equivalent of CP, etc in modern
continental European languages. So I rely on scholars who have written
in my mother tongue, which happens to be English. I have a slight
positive suspicion that others share my predicament.

But a 15th-century English ancestor is remote from a living person's
experience, and the degree of relationship is unimaginably minute, so
why are earlier, more exotic and colourful ancestors - whose extra
remoteness is a mere statistical figment - of so much less interest?
It beats me.

An obvious point is that the number of ancestors nearly doubles,
intermarriages intervening, at each preceding generation. So we have far
more ancestors in the middles ages than those in modern centuries, if
only we can find them of course.

This effect was corroborated earlier this year when I did an analysis of
ancestors only (one day I must extend this to include relatives). I
found that 80% of the known ancestors lived before 1500 and a mere 20%
lived after 1500. The break-even point was around 1300, so half the
known ancestors lived after 1300 and half before. That is why I can
share the view that the early medievals have an exquisite interest.

All I want now is a scholarly work in my mother tongue to cover the
early medieval continental families and I might be able to push this
break-even point even further back in time.

--
Tim Powys-Lybbe                                          tim@powys.org
             For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/

Peter Stewart

Re: what has happened to this newsgroup?

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 20 jul 2006 09:33:12

All the sources of information that Leslie mentions are either post-medieval
or concentrate on the vast deposit of administrative records preserved in
England - why the endless fascination with these at the expense of time and
effort further afield? The messages that pass here actually determine the
kind and degree of interest that SGM can attract, not vice versa.

There are immense amounts of real, personal information about the ancestors
of Plantagenets in published chronicles, cartularies, obituaries,
hagiographies and other classes of medieval documents. Lawsuits are the only
type of source you have noted that promise to tell us about the
personalities involved, yet of course most of these were disputes over
property holdings and inheritance anyway.

What our distant ancestors actually did, in peace or at war, in love or from
hatred, in authority or against it, acquiring power or losing status, are
the things that make them interesting today - more, surely, than what petty
acreages they may have claimed or what feudal obligations they incurred or
avoided from year to year.

Through much of the medieval period, England is rather poorer than some
other parts of Europe in sources that tell us about these more interesting
things, admittedly only for a tiny fraction of people (although a fair
proportion of those to whom lineages can be traced).

I suspect (not of Leslie) that plain snobbery has something to do with this:
the material circumstances of the late-medieval gentry can be fitted
comprehensibly alongside the social and economic aspirations of some people
who are seeking out their medieval ancestors today, while the more colourful
lives of earlier nobility and royalty from whom they also descend are
isolated higher up the scale, a bit out of proportion & focus for mainly
self-interested enquirers.

I can't believe that anyone who didn't have themselves in the edges of the
picture could prefer to read about manorial transfers than the deeds of a
crusader or the murder of a king. Yet SGM is full of late- or post-medieval
administrivia, and hardly ever touches on the personalities or even the
reproductive foibles of the great from earlier centuries.

Peter Stewart



<lmahler@att.net> wrote in message
news:1153381750.001821.222160@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Peter Stewart wrote:

I don't quite understand why enquiries about Continental ancestry are
not MORE common here than those about early modern ancestry in the
English-speaking world.



One of the problems is that sometimes the sources
simply dont exist.

For example, in Sweden, parish registers usually commence in the 1680s
or so.
Compare that with England, where some registers begin circa 1540.




The sources are less accessible, but then surely that is all the more
reason to ask others for information.


I could post about my ancestry in Alsace (near Selestat), or some from
the Haute Saone department in France, or Hainaut & Namur provinces in
Belgium. But I wouldnt expect much interest.

Again, the parish registers begin later in those places (usually 1650s,
sometimes earlier, about 1610 - which again, is not as good as England,
1540, in some cases).


Also, it seems that there are more existing medieval records for
England.
Examples are the National Archives catalog, or the A2A catalog.

Do similar things exist for continental Europe?
Can one order lawsuits / chancery suits from those countries pre 1500?

Also, the published inquisitions post mortem, close rolls, fine rolls
can be
consulted for Medieval England.
Do similar things exist for continental Europe?


Leslie

Diana Gale Matthiesen

RE: what has happened to this newsgroup?

Legg inn av Diana Gale Matthiesen » 20 jul 2006 10:16:01

I didn't realize the list admin has no powers over the newsgroup subscribers.
Thanks for educating me.

Diana

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Powys-Lybbe [mailto:tim@powys.org]
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 2:04 AM
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: RE: what has happened to this newsgroup?

snip

And this only applies to those who participate in this group via
Rootsweb. My guess (no statistics this time) is that well
over half of
contributors these days do not use the Rootsweb mailing list. So the
mailing list admin has absolutely no powers over the majority.

--
Tim Powys-Lybbe       



R. Battle

Re: what has happened to this newsgroup?

Legg inn av R. Battle » 20 jul 2006 10:19:12

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006, Peter Stewart wrote:
<snip>
What our distant ancestors actually did, in peace or at war, in love or from
hatred, in authority or against it, acquiring power or losing status, are
the things that make them interesting today - more, surely, than what petty
acreages they may have claimed or what feudal obligations they incurred or
avoided from year to year.
snip
I suspect (not of Leslie) that plain snobbery has something to do with this:
the material circumstances of the late-medieval gentry can be fitted
comprehensibly alongside the social and economic aspirations of some people
who are seeking out their medieval ancestors today, while the more colourful
lives of earlier nobility and royalty from whom they also descend are
isolated higher up the scale, a bit out of proportion & focus for mainly
self-interested enquirers.

I can't believe that anyone who didn't have themselves in the edges of the
picture could prefer to read about manorial transfers than the deeds of a
crusader or the murder of a king. Yet SGM is full of late- or post-medieval
administrivia, and hardly ever touches on the personalities or even the
reproductive foibles of the great from earlier centuries.
snip


Hi, Peter.

While I haven't contributed much to any of the discussions you allude to,
I believe that I can come up with some reasons for the seeming preference
for petty land transactions over the deeds of the great (none of which
have to do with snobbery, except perhaps of an inverted sort).

Probably the most important reason is that the group's focus is more on
genealogy than biography. Most of us are devotees of both, but the petty
transactions you allude to are not interesting so much for their
biographical content as for their genealogical usefulness. The ownership
of a particular parcel of land can be the thread that helps to tie a
family together. I don't bask in the reflected glory of my ancestor
Richard Browne owning several acres near Bromyard in the 16th century, but
I do find that information useful when I discover that some other Brownes
held those same acres 100 years earlier.

A second (somewhat related) reason that so much more time and space is
spent discussing petty land transactions over the deeds of the great is
that a number of us are more interested in original research than in
rehearsing known facts. The common perception, perhaps misguided, is that
the more important the personage referred to in a document is, the more
likely it is that that document has been wrung of its useful information
by other scholars in the past.

There are a number of other reasons that could be brought forward
(including the inverted snobbery I mentioned), but those two are, I think,
the most important.

-Robert Battle

Peter Stewart

Re: what has happened to this newsgroup?

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 20 jul 2006 11:45:51

This neatly misses the main point, that the SGM newsgroup is supposed to be
devoted to the whole of medieval genealogy, yet is overwhelmed with late-
and post-medieval threads concentrating on England. WHY the fascination with
finding out who inherited what in this tiny corner of the world in mainly
the last few centuries of the medieval period and the first of the modern
era?

Is it just becasue CP gives an easy start and A2A with its helpful extracts
can make the next steps almost as easy?

What I am getting at is that SGM members seem to care so much more for
"discussing petty land transactions" ad infinitum (often directly rehashing
previous SGM discussions....) rather than seeking to educate themselves
about ancestors who are more distant, chronologically and culturally.

As for the idea that people immerse themselves in late-medieval English
manorial records because they might discover, or conjecture, something new,
while ignoring the rich information about Continental ancestors because
other people (clearly not SGM members) already know about it - I don't buy
this. The discussions on SGM are far too erratic and patchy to make out that
anything at all useful is consistently being tried here beyond filling in
the gaps in personal pedigrees, with more mere names & dates. Without
context, these are next-to meaningless, and often have no value to the
enquirer anyway apart from potentially opening up another link to royalty.

Some people are of course genuinely interested in the subject matter of the
VCH manorial histories, and a few are trying to extend the resources of CP
to the lesser gentry. This is is a most worthy endeavour, but precious
little of it happens on SGM - and vastly less since outstanding exponents
such as Paul Reed and Rosie Bevan departed.

Peter Stewart


"R. Battle" <battle@u.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.A41.4.64.0607200151070.186814@dante68.u.washington.edu...
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006, Peter Stewart wrote:
snip
What our distant ancestors actually did, in peace or at war, in love or
from
hatred, in authority or against it, acquiring power or losing status, are
the things that make them interesting today - more, surely, than what
petty
acreages they may have claimed or what feudal obligations they incurred
or
avoided from year to year.
snip
I suspect (not of Leslie) that plain snobbery has something to do with
this:
the material circumstances of the late-medieval gentry can be fitted
comprehensibly alongside the social and economic aspirations of some
people
who are seeking out their medieval ancestors today, while the more
colourful
lives of earlier nobility and royalty from whom they also descend are
isolated higher up the scale, a bit out of proportion & focus for mainly
self-interested enquirers.

I can't believe that anyone who didn't have themselves in the edges of
the
picture could prefer to read about manorial transfers than the deeds of a
crusader or the murder of a king. Yet SGM is full of late- or
post-medieval
administrivia, and hardly ever touches on the personalities or even the
reproductive foibles of the great from earlier centuries.
snip

Hi, Peter.

While I haven't contributed much to any of the discussions you allude to,
I believe that I can come up with some reasons for the seeming preference
for petty land transactions over the deeds of the great (none of which
have to do with snobbery, except perhaps of an inverted sort).

Probably the most important reason is that the group's focus is more on
genealogy than biography. Most of us are devotees of both, but the petty
transactions you allude to are not interesting so much for their
biographical content as for their genealogical usefulness. The ownership
of a particular parcel of land can be the thread that helps to tie a
family together. I don't bask in the reflected glory of my ancestor
Richard Browne owning several acres near Bromyard in the 16th century, but
I do find that information useful when I discover that some other Brownes
held those same acres 100 years earlier.

A second (somewhat related) reason that so much more time and space is
spent discussing petty land transactions over the deeds of the great is
that a number of us are more interested in original research than in
rehearsing known facts. The common perception, perhaps misguided, is that
the more important the personage referred to in a document is, the more
likely it is that that document has been wrung of its useful information
by other scholars in the past.

There are a number of other reasons that could be brought forward
(including the inverted snobbery I mentioned), but those two are, I think,
the most important.

-Robert Battle

Matt Tompkins

Re: what has happened to this newsgroup?

Legg inn av Matt Tompkins » 20 jul 2006 11:48:07

Peter Stewart wrote:
I suspect (not of Leslie) that plain snobbery has something to do with this:
the material circumstances of the late-medieval gentry can be fitted
comprehensibly alongside the social and economic aspirations of some people
who are seeking out their medieval ancestors today, while the more colourful
lives of earlier nobility and royalty from whom they also descend are
isolated higher up the scale, a bit out of proportion & focus for mainly
self-interested enquirers.


That's an interesting defence of the Gateway sub-genre of medieval
genealogy; a straightforward inversion of the charge often levelled
against it - that Gateway genealogy's emphasis on discovering
romantic royal and titled ancestry to the exclusion of all other is a
form of snobbery. Its detractors would no doubt respond that they find
the detail of the everyday lives of their lower-class late medieval
ancestors every bit as fascinating as the romantic deeds of early
medieval princes and far more satisfying to research and piece
together. (I suspect the word 'real' would appear several times in
their description of their own interests.)

There's also the more mundane fact that feudal and manorial records
of landownership are an excellent source for family relationships, and
lower down the social scale often the only one so even someone
uninterested in acres and feudal obligations still has to use them.

Speaking for myself, while Gateway genealogy is no doubt as valid a
form of genealogy as any other, I do often find it tediously
superficial, with its emphasis on lines of descent to famous names and
lack of interest in fleshing out the lives it passes through en route.
It seems to me to be a very pure form of genealogy, with nearly all
historical interest stripped out.

But each to his own, and while I always hope the Gateway to
Administrivia ratio will be low (and my dream of discussing late
medieval peasant genealogy will probably never be realised), I
certainly wouldn't wish to prevent postings about medieval Gateway
genealogy on a list entitled Medieval Genealogy.

Matt Tompkins

Peter Stewart

Re: what has happened to this newsgroup?

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 20 jul 2006 12:10:23

"Matt Tompkins" <mllt1@le.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:1153392487.156751.288170@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...

<snip>

But each to his own, and while I always hope the Gateway to
Administrivia ratio will be low (and my dream of discussing late
medieval peasant genealogy will probably never be realised), I
certainly wouldn't wish to prevent postings about medieval Gateway
genealogy on a list entitled Medieval Genealogy.

Nor would I - I am arguing for a more even balance of interests, not for the
exclusion of any.

People tend to choose the neighbourhoods they live in so as to surround
themselves with others of like values, status and pursuits. This impulse can
get elevated from purely self-absorbed vanity into social service,
philanthropy, even patriotism, or it can be debased into elitism and
racism - and in genealogy it can take the form of looking for, and
preferring, ancestors who are also as much as possible like the researcher.
Every which way, when the familiar is always exalted above the strange and
comfortable homeliness is indulged, it is not the exact opposite of dull.

Peter Stewart

John Brandon

Re: what has happened to this newsgroup?

Legg inn av John Brandon » 20 jul 2006 14:53:17

I can't believe that anyone who didn't have themselves in the edges of the
picture could prefer to read about manorial transfers than the deeds of a
crusader or the murder of a king. Yet SGM is full of late- or post-medieval
administrivia, and hardly ever touches on the personalities or even the
reproductive foibles of the great from earlier centuries.

Well, personally I'm deeply bored by history, except as it intersects
with genealogy, so there is a certain stodgy satisfaction in tracing
rather nondescript, yet substantial, families of the upper yeomanry/
lower gentry that left good records.

The most interesting thing about genealogy, for me, is to be reading
along in a hum-drum document (a will or an account of land-holdings at
a particular place) and spot a name that I know from a completely
different context (I have an uncanny memory for names and where I've
read them before).

For 'grandeur' and 'epic sweep,' I tend to read poetry, essays, and
novels.

Doug McDonald

Re: what has happened to this newsgroup?

Legg inn av Doug McDonald » 20 jul 2006 15:03:52

Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote:
In message of 19 Jul, Doug McDonald <mcdonald@SnPoAM_scs.uiuc.edu> wrote:

What has happened? It seems that this newsgroup has stopped
being interested in actual medieval people, mostly, and has
moved to later days.

Have many usual susp
The DNA of Somerled Y


Totalling this up we have:

70 topics
13 were off topic
57 were more or less on Medieval Genealogy

I think the group is doing fairly well with that sort of score.

Well, I guess I was wrong with the "too late". It does seem
to me that the average time period of discussion has moved
up to the later rather the earlier medieval.

But I dispute that the DNA of Somerled ... which I posted
.... is off topic! It starts about 1130 and the interesting
part is all in the medieval period. The DNA verifies the
pedigrees of all the Clan Donald paper trailed people,
except a Glencoe, whose paper trail is muddy anyway.

Doug McDonald

L B Hansen

Re: what has happened to this newsgroup?

Legg inn av L B Hansen » 20 jul 2006 21:11:02

Because they are our ancestors? I am here as I suspect others are - to learn about my ancestors. And they are those in that little tiny corner of the world that you describe below. Linda

Peter Stewart <p_m_stewart@msn.com> wrote: WHY the fascination with
finding out who inherited what in this tiny corner of the world in mainly
the last few centuries of the medieval period and the first of the modern
era?



---------------------------------
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Peter Stewart

Re: what has happened to this newsgroup?

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 20 jul 2006 22:25:47

But you are clearly amused by personal foibles, and post non-hum-drum
findings that you seem to relish.

I don't mean to imply that dry-as-dust research in admininstrative records
is worthless, only that the obsession with endless threads about this is
unbalanced.

Peter Stewart



"John Brandon" <starbuck95@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1153403597.069731.96930@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I can't believe that anyone who didn't have themselves in the edges of
the
picture could prefer to read about manorial transfers than the deeds of a
crusader or the murder of a king. Yet SGM is full of late- or
post-medieval
administrivia, and hardly ever touches on the personalities or even the
reproductive foibles of the great from earlier centuries.

Well, personally I'm deeply bored by history, except as it intersects
with genealogy, so there is a certain stodgy satisfaction in tracing
rather nondescript, yet substantial, families of the upper yeomanry/
lower gentry that left good records.

The most interesting thing about genealogy, for me, is to be reading
along in a hum-drum document (a will or an account of land-holdings at
a particular place) and spot a name that I know from a completely
different context (I have an uncanny memory for names and where I've
read them before).

For 'grandeur' and 'epic sweep,' I tend to read poetry, essays, and
novels.

Peter Stewart

Re: what has happened to this newsgroup?

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 20 jul 2006 22:29:43

If you have traced your ancestry to medieval people in the British Isles,
you have almost certainly connected to vastly more ancestors who lived
elsewhere in Europe.

My question is, WHY the virtually exclusive and unrelenting interest only in
the English ancestors in the last few centuries of the medieval era?

Peter Stewart


"L B Hansen" <lbhansen9@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:20060720191002.35030.qmail@web32404.mail.mud.yahoo.com...
Because they are our ancestors? I am here as I suspect others are - to
learn about my ancestors. And they are those in that little tiny corner
of the world that you describe below. Linda

Peter Stewart <p_m_stewart@msn.com> wrote: WHY the fascination with
finding out who inherited what in this tiny corner of the world in mainly
the last few centuries of the medieval period and the first of the modern
era?



---------------------------------
See the all-new, redesigned Yahoo.com. Check it out.

L B Hansen

Re: what has happened to this newsgroup?

Legg inn av L B Hansen » 21 jul 2006 01:34:01

Peter - I can only speak for myself. Maybe I am the exception, but most of my ancestors came to the States in the 1600's from England. I do have some early German and Dutch ancestors. I don't research them in the medieval period because I haven't a clue about the language or the culture. The Old English handwriting is keeping me plenty busy - and I understand the language. Researching my English ancestors could keep me busy for the rest of my days. However, I would love to do some early German research if some very knowledgable person would start a discussion. The problem is that my research will start somewhere in the late 1600's again - it will take me a while to get back to the medieval period with them. Linda

Peter Stewart <p_m_stewart@msn.com> wrote:
If you have traced your ancestry to medieval people in the British Isles,
you have almost certainly connected to vastly more ancestors who lived
elsewhere in Europe.

My question is, WHY the virtually exclusive and unrelenting interest only in
the English ancestors in the last few centuries of the medieval era?

Peter Stewart




---------------------------------
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Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

Merilyn Pedrick

Re: what has happened to this newsgroup?

Legg inn av Merilyn Pedrick » 21 jul 2006 05:00:02

Dear LB
Well, you have some surprises in store when you dig a little deeper. I was
astonished to find not just English, Scottish, Welsh, Irish, French and
Norse and German, but Spanish, Portugese and therefore Arabic, Greek and
therefore Byzantian, as well as Russian, Serbian, Hungarian etc. etc. etc.
A veritable feast awaits you. So keep digging and you will find you are
descended from just about every European and North African race on earth.
As Leo van de Pas says on his Genealogics website, if we have European
descent we are everyone else's at least 30th cousin. (I'm sure he said it
more elegantly than that though).
Best wishes
Merilyn Pedrick

-------Original Message-------

From: L B Hansen
Date: 07/21/06 09:04:29
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: what has happened to this newsgroup?

Peter - I can only speak for myself. Maybe I am the exception, but most of
my ancestors came to the States in the 1600's from England. I do have some
early German and Dutch ancestors. I don't research them in the medieval
period because I haven't a clue about the language or the culture. The Old
English handwriting is keeping me plenty busy - and I understand the
language. Researching my English ancestors could keep me busy for the rest
of my days. However, I would love to do some early German research if some
very knowledgable person would start a discussion. The problem is that my
research will start somewhere in the late 1600's again - it will take me a
while to get back to the medieval period with them. Linda

Peter Stewart <p_m_stewart@msn.com> wrote:
If you have traced your ancestry to medieval people in the British Isles,
you have almost certainly connected to vastly more ancestors who lived
elsewhere in Europe.

My question is, WHY the virtually exclusive and unrelenting interest only in
the English ancestors in the last few centuries of the medieval era?

Peter Stewart




---------------------------------
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Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

Diana Gale Matthiesen

RE: what has happened to this newsgroup?

Legg inn av Diana Gale Matthiesen » 21 jul 2006 06:40:02

I didn't choose my ancestors. I search where the trail leads. If it leads me
to the British Isles, it's not out of bias or tunnel vision, it's because that's
where I find them.

My paternal grandfather's Danish ancestry peters out in the 18th century
because, before then, none of them used surnames (hence, my sponsoring the
Danish Demes DNA project). My maternal grandfather's German ancestry, so far,
stops at the water's edge because I've never identified the origin of the
immigrant (hence my sponsoring the STRAUB DNA project, and others). My paternal
grandmother's southern ancestry was lost in the burned court houses of the Civil
War (hence my numerous offers to subsidize the DNA testing of cousins, when and
if I can find living ones).

So, if I focus on my maternal grandmother's New England ancestry, it's because
that is where I'm having the most success in pursing records. And, yes, her
ancestry goes elsewhere in Europe, but my first goal is to fill in the blanks
that are closer to me. Maybe in 10 years I'll be looking at her continental
kin.

What's odd here is why you assume other people have less rationale for what they
do than you do. You aren't the only one here with an IQ in three digits.

Diana

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Stewart [mailto:p_m_stewart@msn.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 4:30 PM
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: what has happened to this newsgroup?

If you have traced your ancestry to medieval people in the
British Isles, you have almost certainly connected to vastly
more ancestors who lived elsewhere in Europe.

My question is, WHY the virtually exclusive and unrelenting
interest only in the English ancestors in the last few centuries
of the medieval era?

Peter Stewart

Peter Stewart

Re: what has happened to this newsgroup?

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 21 jul 2006 07:06:31

""Diana Gale Matthiesen"" <DianaGM@dgmweb.net> wrote in message
news:001901c6ac7f$89510450$6401a8c0@HP...
I didn't choose my ancestors. I search where the trail leads. If it leads
me
to the British Isles, it's not out of bias or tunnel vision, it's because
that's
where I find them.

My paternal grandfather's Danish ancestry peters out in the 18th century
because, before then, none of them used surnames (hence, my sponsoring the
Danish Demes DNA project). My maternal grandfather's German ancestry, so
far,
stops at the water's edge because I've never identified the origin of the
immigrant (hence my sponsoring the STRAUB DNA project, and others). My
paternal
grandmother's southern ancestry was lost in the burned court houses of the
Civil
War (hence my numerous offers to subsidize the DNA testing of cousins,
when and
if I can find living ones).

So, if I focus on my maternal grandmother's New England ancestry, it's
because
that is where I'm having the most success in pursing records. And, yes,
her
ancestry goes elsewhere in Europe, but my first goal is to fill in the
blanks
that are closer to me. Maybe in 10 years I'll be looking at her
continental
kin.

What's odd here is why you assume other people have less rationale for
what they
do than you do. You aren't the only one here with an IQ in three digits.

I do not assume anything of the sort - please read what I write, if you
choose, and then refrain from ascribing your own thoughts to me.

No-one has suggested that the newsgroup's concentration on late-medieval
English lines is unintelligent, but rather that it is unintelligible when
there is so much more, and more interesting, ancestry to be studied across
the whole of the world - especially Europe in the present state of knowledge
and access to records - and throughout the whole of the medieval period from
ca 500 to 1500 AD.

I suggested one reason why some people might prefer to research ancestors as
like as possible to themselves, from a mixture of comfort and chauvinism.
Frankly, the newsgroup over the past few months has tended to look more
jingoistic, with virtually no regard to medieval people other than the
English landed classes. These are some of the most dreary, predictable,
materialistic, acquisitive and culturally null people that history has ever
thrown up, and yet the newsgroup seems to love them beyond measure. WHY?

If the only ancestry you can trace to the middle ages is English but you
cannot trace this further back and further afield, then you are in a small
minority. Yet thye SGM majority seems to go in for little else. The point of
this thread is to enquire into reasons for this, and one person's accident
of getting so far but no further in England alone is not an explanation.
Most people can go further - just glance at RFC for the number of foreign
names and dates earlier than 1300 - yet choose not to bother. That is their
great loss, and I am trying to make a few look again in directions that they
have got into the habit of overlooking.

Peter Stewart


-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Stewart [mailto:p_m_stewart@msn.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 4:30 PM
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: what has happened to this newsgroup?

If you have traced your ancestry to medieval people in the
British Isles, you have almost certainly connected to vastly
more ancestors who lived elsewhere in Europe.

My question is, WHY the virtually exclusive and unrelenting
interest only in the English ancestors in the last few centuries
of the medieval era?

Peter Stewart


L B Hansen

Re: what has happened to this newsgroup?

Legg inn av L B Hansen » 21 jul 2006 17:58:01

Hi Merilyn - I am looking forward to it! I did just tie into the medieval Throckmorton family in England so there are some likely possibilities there that I am just beginning to explore. Thanks- Linda

Merilyn Pedrick <pedricks@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
Dear LB
Well, you have some surprises in store when you dig a little deeper. I was
astonished to find not just English, Scottish, Welsh, Irish, French and
Norse and German, but Spanish, Portugese and therefore Arabic, Greek and
therefore Byzantian, as well as Russian, Serbian, Hungarian etc. etc. etc.
A veritable feast awaits you. So keep digging and you will find you are
descended from just about every European and North African race on earth.
As Leo van de Pas says on his Genealogics website, if we have European
descent we are everyone else's at least 30th cousin. (I'm sure he said it
more elegantly than that though).
Best wishes
Merilyn Pedrick


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

Merilyn Pedrick

Re: what has happened to this newsgroup?

Legg inn av Merilyn Pedrick » 22 jul 2006 05:17:01

I've just checked my database for Throckmortons and came up with Jane who
married Sir John Marney. He died 1470/71. Have you encountered her by any
chance?
Merilyn

-------Original Message-------

From: L B Hansen
Date: 07/22/06 01:27:14
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: what has happened to this newsgroup?

Hi Merilyn - I am looking forward to it! I did just tie into the medieval
Throckmorton family in England so there are some likely possibilities there
that I am just beginning to explore. Thanks- Linda

Merilyn Pedrick <pedricks@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
Dear LB
Well, you have some surprises in store when you dig a little deeper. I was
astonished to find not just English, Scottish, Welsh, Irish, French and
Norse and German, but Spanish, Portugese and therefore Arabic, Greek and
therefore Byzantian, as well as Russian, Serbian, Hungarian etc. etc. etc.
A veritable feast awaits you. So keep digging and you will find you are
descended from just about every European and North African race on earth.
As Leo van de Pas says on his Genealogics website, if we have European
descent we are everyone else's at least 30th cousin. (I'm sure he said it
more elegantly than that though).
Best wishes
Merilyn Pedrick


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

L B Hansen

Re: what has happened to this newsgroup?

Legg inn av L B Hansen » 22 jul 2006 15:53:01

Merilyn - It looks like the common ancestor would be John Throckmorton and his wife Eleanor de la Spine or De Spineto. Not having researched this myself - it looks like Jane's father John was the son of these two as was my ancestor Thomas Throckmorton (m. Margaret Olney). It looks like it has been researched quite thoroughly but how do you corroborate what is out there? Is there a reliable source on the web for these noble lines or do I need to pursue it elsewhere? Linda

Merilyn Pedrick <pedricks@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
I've just checked my database for Throckmortons and came up with Jane who
married Sir John Marney. He died 1470/71. Have you encountered her by any
chance?
Merilyn

-------Original Message-------



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Gordon and Jane Kirkemo

RE: what has happened to this newsgroup?--Throckmorton

Legg inn av Gordon and Jane Kirkemo » 23 jul 2006 00:40:02

Linda and Merilyn,

If you are unfamiliar with it, I would recommend you find a copy of "A
Genealogical and Historical Account of the Throckmorton Family" by C.
Wickliffe Throckmorton. While I'm sure there are some errors in it, it is a
good starting point for Throckmorton research.

I do not have it ready to hand, so I cannot address the issue of Jane, wife
of John Marney, but I suspect she may be found in the Throckmorton book.

I hope this is helpful.

Sincerely,
Gordon Kirkemo

-----Original Message-----
From: L B Hansen [mailto:lbhansen9@yahoo.com]
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 6:52 AM
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: what has happened to this newsgroup?

Merilyn - It looks like the common ancestor would be John Throckmorton and
his wife Eleanor de la Spine or De Spineto. Not having researched this
myself - it looks like Jane's father John was the son of these two as was my
ancestor Thomas Throckmorton (m. Margaret Olney). It looks like it has been
researched quite thoroughly but how do you corroborate what is out there?
Is there a reliable source on the web for these noble lines or do I need to
pursue it elsewhere? Linda

Merilyn Pedrick <pedricks@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
I've just checked my database for Throckmortons and came up with Jane who
married Sir John Marney. He died 1470/71. Have you encountered her by any
chance?
Merilyn

-------Original Message-------



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______________________________

Merilyn Pedrick

RE: what has happened to this newsgroup?--Throckmorton

Legg inn av Merilyn Pedrick » 23 jul 2006 01:57:02

Very helpful - thankyou Gordon. I'll try to track it down at the State
Library.
Merilyn

-------Original Message-------

From: Gordon and Jane Kirkemo
Date: 07/23/06 08:08:07
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: RE: what has happened to this newsgroup?--Throckmorton

Linda and Merilyn,

If you are unfamiliar with it, I would recommend you find a copy of "A
Genealogical and Historical Account of the Throckmorton Family" by C.
Wickliffe Throckmorton. While I'm sure there are some errors in it, it is a
good starting point for Throckmorton research.

I do not have it ready to hand, so I cannot address the issue of Jane, wife
of John Marney, but I suspect she may be found in the Throckmorton book.

I hope this is helpful.

Sincerely,
Gordon Kirkemo

-----Original Message-----
From: L B Hansen [mailto:lbhansen9@yahoo.com]
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 6:52 AM
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: what has happened to this newsgroup?

Merilyn - It looks like the common ancestor would be John Throckmorton and
his wife Eleanor de la Spine or De Spineto. Not having researched this
myself - it looks like Jane's father John was the son of these two as was my
ancestor Thomas Throckmorton (m. Margaret Olney). It looks like it has been
researched quite thoroughly but how do you corroborate what is out there?
Is there a reliable source on the web for these noble lines or do I need to
pursue it elsewhere? Linda

Merilyn Pedrick <pedricks@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
I've just checked my database for Throckmortons and came up with Jane who
married Sir John Marney. He died 1470/71. Have you encountered her by any
chance?
Merilyn

-------Original Message-------



- -------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free.

______________________________

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