Calendar of Ormonde Deeds: Another Son of The Earl Ormonde!!

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Calendar of Ormonde Deeds: Another Son of The Earl Ormonde!!

Legg inn av Gjest » 24 jun 2006 03:33:56

Good Evening All,

Going thru the Volumes of the "Calendar of Ormonde Deed to refresh my
memory as much of what I have written was by memory, and while it is a
dry and boring read and usually only read the good stuff, I came across
this and nearly lost my teeth!!??!!

"Calendar of Ormonde Deeds", Vol. III, p. 270 2nd para. # 280
Indenture made at Michaelmas in the 1491, between John son of John
son of Thomas Le Buteller son of the Earl of Ormond and Edmund
"Incally" Graunte, witnesses that John for a pledge or mortgage of
thirty marks silver granted to the said Edmund the town of Kylmabowthe
in the county of Kilkenny to have and to hold to him and his heirs
until the said John or his heirs pay the above said value of the sum of
money in horses, cows, sheep or other animals at the choice of the said
John.

September 29 1491
Portion of Butler seal

counterpart with Graunte seal

by the date of the indenture, Sept. 29 1491, the alleged
Earl of Ormond was Thomas Butler 7th E of O. the time intervals would
be approx. right.
Thomas b. c. 1424 E of O
Thomas b. c. 1444 +20
John b. c. 1464 + 20
John b. c. 1484
Indenture made in 1491 and granted that would only make him about 7 and
is a little tight but
then asgain he could have been as old as 11 and that is presuming
fathers and grand fathers were either young fathers and or were
actually born earlier, or made by John the father of John in case he
didn't live. I do not know. As the earldom went back and forth between
the Irish and the English and their parliments and in some references
even tho John the 6th E of Ormonde is dead he was at times still
referred to as the earl, tho in the majority it was 'lately' and in
another 'defunct'. Oh yes in other deeds Thomas E of Ormonde is also
referred to as Thomas Le Buteller and also many spellings. who is Emund
Gruante? a variation maybe of Grant? Thirty marks silver was alot of
money in those days and especially when it came to livestock, whoever
they were they were not run of the mill people.

I also believe these same people show up again same Vol. p. 280 # 289
or else it may be John son of John le Butler son of John the 6th E of
O. in another indenture on March 16, 1495 to the bishop of Osssory,
Oliver Cantewell for 4 towns listed of the yearly sum of 8 pounds. Any
other ideas?
Best Regards as Always,
Emmett L. Butler

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