why different legitimations for full sisters?

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Leo van de Pas

why different legitimations for full sisters?

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 19 jun 2006 06:51:02

In ES II Tafel 122 is recorded the Piast Kings of Poland. Kazimierz III married four times, and apparently his fourth marriage was regarded as bigamously. He had divorced wives 2 and 3.
By wife nr 4 he had three daughters
1366 Anna, 1367 Kunigunde and 1368 Jadwiga

On 5 December 1369 Pope Urban legitimises the first two daughters, and on 11 October 1371 Pope Gregor XI legitimises the third one. Why would this have been?
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

Peter Stewart

Re: why different legitimations for full sisters?

Legg inn av Peter Stewart » 19 jun 2006 06:51:03

""Leo van de Pas"" <leovdpas@netspeed.com.au> wrote in message
news:010d01c6935b$addb8670$0300a8c0@Toshiba...
In ES II Tafel 122 is recorded the Piast Kings of Poland. Kazimierz III
married four times, and apparently his fourth marriage was regarded
as bigamously. He had divorced wives 2 and 3.
By wife nr 4 he had three daughters
1366 Anna, 1367 Kunigunde and 1368 Jadwiga

On 5 December 1369 Pope Urban legitimises the first two daughters,
and on 11 October 1371 Pope Gregor XI legitimises the third one.
Why would this have been?

I don't know why the youngest infant girl, Jadwiga, was left out the first
time - perhaps they either didn't ask for her to be legitimised at the time,
assuming her borthdate is correct, or something else had happened between
Kunigunde's birth in 1367 and Jadwiga's in 1368 that made the status of
their parents' union even more irregular as seen from Rome, so that the
circumstances of Jadwiga's birth didn't qualify as well as those of her
elder sisters' births a year or two earlier.

But it should be noted that Anna was also included in the legitimasation of
1371, and Kunigunde was dead before then. So maybe the first papal act was
unsatisfactory in some way, as not based on full information for instance,
and needed to be duplicated by a successor.

Peter Stewart

pierre_aronax@hotmail.com

Re: why different legitimations for full sisters?

Legg inn av pierre_aronax@hotmail.com » 19 jun 2006 10:21:56

"Leo van de Pas" a écrit :

In ES II Tafel 122 is recorded the Piast Kings of Poland. Kazimierz III married four times, and apparently his fourth marriage was regarded as bigamously. He had divorced wives 2 and 3.
By wife nr 4 he had three daughters
1366 Anna, 1367 Kunigunde and 1368 Jadwiga

On 5 December 1369 Pope Urban legitimises the first two daughters, and on 11 October 1371 Pope Gregor XI legitimises the third one. Why would this have been?
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

A simple explanation for why Jadwiga was not included would be that she
was still not born when the request was written and sent to the papal
court: if she was born at the end of 1368, that is quite possible since
a letter can perfectly have made a year to arrive to the Pope and then
to go through all the process of examination. It would be interesting
to see the actual wording of the text of 1368 and to compare it with
the wording of the 1371 legitimisation.

Pierre

Leo van de Pas

Re: why different legitimations for full sisters?

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 19 jun 2006 11:41:01

----- Original Message -----
From: <pierre_aronax@hotmail.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 7:21 PM
Subject: Re: why different legitimations for full sisters?


"Leo van de Pas" a écrit :

In ES II Tafel 122 is recorded the Piast Kings of Poland. Kazimierz III
married four times, and apparently his fourth marriage was regarded as
bigamously. He had divorced wives 2 and 3.
By wife nr 4 he had three daughters
1366 Anna, 1367 Kunigunde and 1368 Jadwiga

On 5 December 1369 Pope Urban legitimises the first two daughters, and on
11 October 1371 Pope Gregor XI legitimises the third one. Why would this
have been?
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

A simple explanation for why Jadwiga was not included would be that she
was still not born when the request was written and sent to the papal
court: if she was born at the end of 1368, that is quite possible since
a letter can perfectly have made a year to arrive to the Pope and then
to go through all the process of examination. It would be interesting
to see the actual wording of the text of 1368 and to compare it with
the wording of the 1371 legitimisation.

Pierre

-----Many thanks. If only e-mails had been around in those days :-)

Leo

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