Some Temple and Giffard wills (continued)

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RJM

Some Temple and Giffard wills (continued)

Legg inn av RJM » 17 jun 2006 07:57:15

On 12 Jul 2003, John Brandon wrote:

"Since most seventeenth-century P.C.C. wills are now online, I thought
I would check a few (though I'm not rich and shouldn't be wasting my
money this way). I ordered the following wills:

-will of John Temple of Frankton, Warwickshire (proved 24 Nov. 1642)

-will of Dame Mary Temple of Sedlescombe, Sussex (proved 21 July 1655)

-will of John Temple, gent., of Bishopstrow, Wilts. (proved 23 Jan.
1638)

-will of Margaret Giffard, widow, of Hammersmith, Middlesex (proved
1692)

The first two wills, those of John Temple of Frankton (apparently the
husband of Anne Tomlins), and of Dame Mary Temple of Sedlescombe,
concern members of the Temple family of Stowe. Though the writing was
very difficult to decipher, I saw no mention of a Margaret Temple or
of anyone named Gifford (if someone wants to double-check me on that,
I'd appreciate it). Also, it would be nice if someone could check
Temple Prime's book on the Temples of Stowe (... hint, hint) .... (I
supposed this is really too much to expect.) "

Dame Mary's will is indeed in Temple Prime's book. As John Brandon
mentioned a few days ago, she was the third wife of Sir Alexander
Temple. She mentions some of her children by her first marriage
(Busbridge) and some of her grandchildren (Temple) from the marriage of
her daughter to her step-son (James Temple, the regicide). She gives
the surname of another of her daughters, The will does not mention a
Margaret Temple nor anyone with the surname Giffard.

The will of John Temple (of Frankton) was included in the second
edition of Temple Prime's book, but is not in the third edition, which
is the one I have.

I presume you are aware of Dame Martha Giffard who was the sister of
Sir William Temple (died c. 1698) and daughter of Sir John Temple (died
c. 1676).

BTW I presume it is an unrelated coincidence, but Susan Temple
(daughter of Sir Alexander) married Sir Giffard Thornhurst (of Agney
Court, Old Romney) in the 1620s.

John Matthews

John Brandon

Re: Some Temple and Giffard wills (continued)

Legg inn av John Brandon » 17 jun 2006 18:33:09

I presume you are aware of Dame Martha Giffard who was the sister of Sir William Temple (died c. 1698) and daughter of Sir John Temple (died c. 1676).

Yep, that was the Irish Temple family, I believe.

BTW I presume it is an unrelated coincidence, but Susan Temple (daughter of Sir Alexander) married Sir Giffard Thornhurst (of Agney Court, Old Romney) in the 1620s.

Right, and her second husband was Martin Lister (see ODNB). The
Lister-Thornhurst marriage is in the extracted IGI.

I'll throw another stray "Temple fact" out there for consideration.
There was an Anthony Temple of Berwick-upon-Tweed who was an M.P. in
the late 16th century (see Bindoff). The sketch is very brief, not
even giving his parents. Does anybody know who this Anthony Temple
was? The given name Anthony was supposed to have been used by the
Temple family of Stowe for one of their sons in this period.

Possibly the most interesting part of that earlier posting you refer to
was the will of Margaret Giffard of Hammersmith, Middlesex. Probably
that segment could stand to be quoted in full --


I knew that the will of Margaret Giffard, widow, of Hammersmith (proved
1692) could not belong to the Massachusetts immigrant, since Hartley's
_Ironworks on the Saugus_ states that that lady was alive in 1701 when
she petitioned the Massachusetts General Court as to why she should not
be awarded moneys judged (sometime in the 1680's) to be due to her late
husband from Mr. Middlecott. But the coincidence of names
("Hammersmith" was the name of the original ironworks at Lynn, Mass.)
intrigued me, and it DID turn out that there was an interesting
connection to New England:


In the name of God Amen. I Margaret Giffard of Hamersmith in the
County of Midds. widdow being sick and weake in body but of sound and
disposing mind and memory (blessed be God) revoaking all former wills
and Testaments by me at any time heretofore made doe make and declare
this my present last Will and Testament in manor following (that is to
say) ffirst and principally I comend my Soule into the hands of
Almighty God my Creator (... etc.) My body I committ to the Earth to
be decently buried at the discretion of my Executrix hereinafter named.
And I will that not above twenty pounds be expended upon or about my
funerall. And as for such temporall goods and estate as it hath
pleased God to bless me with in this world (my debts and said funerall
expenses being [? thereout] first paid and discharged) I give and
dispose thereof as followeth (that is to say) I give and bequeath to my
four children in Law John Giffard Grace Giffard Elizabeth Giffard and
Ellianor Gifford ffifty pounds a peece in money (that is to say) ffifty
pounds to each and every one of them. Item I give and bequeath unto my
daughters in Law Sarah and Anne Giffard (who are already [? preferred])
five pounds a peece in money and to my daughter in Law Mary Squire five
shillings she having before received her portion. Item I give and
bequeath unto my grandsonn Gifford Squire and to my granddaughter
Margaret Squire children of the said Mary Shire [sic] five pounds
apeece in money (that is to say) five pounds to each of them. Item I
give and bequeath unto my very loveing freind Mary Corbeut wife of
Edmund Corbet of Hamersmith aforesaid Brewster in token of the love and
affection I beare her for the long and faithfull service she had
formerly done me and my husband five pounds in money. Item I give and
bequeath to Mr. John Houghton Apothecary (my Overseer herinafter named)
ffourty shillings to buy him a ring to weare in remembrance of me. ...
Item I give and bequeath unto my said daughter Elianor Giffard my
Executrix herein after named the full summe of tenn pounds (above and
besides the fifty pounds above given her) for her trouble and paines in
executing this my will ... And I make and ordaine my said daughter in
Law Elianor Gifford sole and only Executrix of this my last Will and
Testament and I make and desire my good freind the said Mr. John
Houghton Apothecary to be Overseer thereof to see the same performed
and to be aiding and assisting to my Executrix in the executing the
same. In witness whereof ... (etc.) ... set my hand and seale dated
the one and twentieth day of September Anno Dmi One Thousand Six
Hundred Ninety One ... in the presence of Benj. Woodroffe Tho. Buxton
Richd Eardley George Blackaller.

The family of Giffards who were Margaret's step-children seem to be
the following people christened at St. Peter-le-Poer (from IGI
extracted records):

--Grace Gifford, dau. of Nicholas and Grace, christened 23 Sept. 1655
--Elizabeth Gifford, dau. of Nicholas and Grace, christened 15 Oct.
1656
--Sarah Gifford, dau. of Nicholas and Grace, christened 28 March 1658
--Mary Gifford, dau. of Nicholas and Grace, christened 27 March 1659
--Charles Gifford, son of Nicholas and Grace, christened 24 June 1660
--Ann Gifford, dau. of Nicholas and Grace, christened 2 Feb. 1661
--Elnor Gifforde, dau. of Nicholas and Grace, christened 7 May 1663

Margaret's will mentioned her step-daughter Mary who was the wife of
___ Squire and who had children named Gifford Squire and Margaret
Squire. I recognized the name "Gifford Squire" from Boston, Mass.,
records. The IGI has the following extracted records concerning
persons named Squire in Boston, Massachusetts (which church would this
be?):

--Philip Squire, son of ___ Squire, christened 24 March 1672
--Rebecca Squire, dau. of Thomas and Martha, christened 8 Aug. 1677
--Martha Squire, dau. of Thomas and Martha, christened 22 May 1679
--Martha Squire, dau. of Thomas and Martha, christened 9 Aug. 1681
--John Squire [no parents named], christened 3 May 1685
--Margaret Squire [no parents named], christened 16 Aug. 1685
--Gifford Squire, son of John and Mary, christened 22 Jan. 1686
--Giffard Squire [no parents named], christened 30 Jan. 1687

http://books.google.com/books?vid=00eor ... ard+squire

http://books.google.com/books?vid=00eor ... ard+squire

Interestingly, the church of St. Peter-le-Poer shows that Nicholas
Squire, son of John and Mary, was christened 29 Nov. 1688, so evidently
the family returned from New England between Jan. 1687 and November
1688.

The will of widow Margaret Giffard of Hammersmith named "Mr. John
Houghton, Apothecary" as overseer. I wonder if this is the same person
as the John Houghton--apothecary, writer, and Fellow of the Royal
Society--who gets a short notice in the DNB:

"HOUGHTON, JOHN (d. 1705), writer on agriculture and trade, studied for
a time at Corpus Christi College, Cambridge ... He subsequently became
an apothecary and dealer in tea, coffee, chocolate, and other luxuries,
first 'against the Ship Tavern in St. Bartholomew Lane, behind the
Royal Exchange,' but by 14 Dec. 1703 at the 'Golden Fleece at the
corner of Little Eastcheap in Gracechurch Street,' London. He
constituted himself a kind of agent for advertisers, and his
advertisements appended to his 'Collections' are newspaper curiosities.
He died in 1705. In the letters o fadministration, P.C.C., granted on
10 Nov. 1705 to his widow Elizabeth, Houghton is described as late of
the parish of St. Leonard, Eastcheap, London. He was elected F.R.S. on
29 Jan. 1680, and served on the society's committee for agriculture."

* * * * * *

John Houghton, apothecary, has a much-expanded bio. in the new ODNB.
It adds several details, calling him son of Roger Houghton, King's
Embroiderer, and stating that his wife was Elizabeth Clagett.

I suspect that John and Mary (Gifford) Squire may have come over to New
England to "visit" Mr. and Mrs. Gifford after discovering that they
meant to cut their only daughter off with a few shillings. But Mr.
John Gifford made his will on 10 September 1686, and John and Mary
Squire were back in England by 29 Nov. 1688, when their son Nicholas
Squire was baptized at St. Peter-le-Poer.

RJM

Re: Some Temple and Giffard wills (continued)

Legg inn av RJM » 17 jun 2006 21:08:33

John Brandon wrote:

I'll throw another stray "Temple fact" out there for consideration.
There was an Anthony Temple of Berwick-upon-Tweed who was an M.P. in
the late 16th century (see Bindoff). The sketch is very brief, not
even giving his parents. Does anybody know who this Anthony Temple
was? The given name Anthony was supposed to have been used by the
Temple family of Stowe for one of their sons in this period.



John Temple (of Stowe, died 1603) had a younger brother Anthony (died
1581). I have never seen any suggestion that he was an MP or that he
had a connection with Berwick on Tweed. The name Anthony does not seem
to be used for anyone else in the Stowe family. Temple Prime quotes
Anthony's will. This will is a bit confusing since he uses the words
brother and sister somewhat loosely. Anthony does however mention that
he obtained some land in Griffe and Cotton (Coughton?) from a Mr
Giffard.

Temple Prime quotes another Temple will - that of Peter Temple of
Chilverscotton (died circa 1615) - in which he asks his son William to
pay 3s 4d yearly to John Gifford esquire. This Peter Temple's eldest
son is Acres Temple who appears to have been the godson of Anthony
Temple (above). The payment to John Gifford hints at a connection
between the families without offering much of a clue as to what that
was.

John Matthews

John Brandon

Re: Some Temple and Giffard wills (continued)

Legg inn av John Brandon » 17 jun 2006 22:13:19

RJM wrote:
John Temple (of Stowe, died 1603) had a younger brother Anthony (died
1581). I have never seen any suggestion that he was an MP or that he
had a connection with Berwick on Tweed. The name Anthony does not seem
to be used for anyone else in the Stowe family. Temple Prime quotes
Anthony's will. This will is a bit confusing since he uses the words
brother and sister somewhat loosely. Anthony does however mention that
he obtained some land in Griffe and Cotton (Coughton?) from a Mr
Giffard.

Temple Prime quotes another Temple will - that of Peter Temple of
Chilverscotton (died circa 1615) - in which he asks his son William to
pay 3s 4d yearly to John Gifford esquire. This Peter Temple's eldest
son is Acres Temple who appears to have been the godson of Anthony
Temple (above). The payment to John Gifford hints at a connection
between the families without offering much of a clue as to what that
was.

I have the following notes on Chilvers Coton (of which the manor of
Griff was a part):

--The manor of Griff was sold "in 1561 to John Gifford and Joyce his
wife. It was settled by John Gifford on his son Walter when he
married, and Walter and his son Peter sold it in 1633 to Richard
Chamberlain, whose daughter Elizabeth had married Walter's brother
Gerard" (_VCH Warwickshire_, 4:175-76).

--from E.G. Grant's pamphlet, "A Warwickshire Colliery in the
Seventeenth Century" in the _Dugdale Society Occasional Papers_ (no.
26):

pp. 5-6: "Sir Thomas Beaumont was working the mines of Bedworth,
immediately to the south of the Arbury estate, while on a part of Griff
belonging to the Gifford family lay an ill-fated colliery operated by
Geoffrey Foxe. ... Griff manor seems to have occupied about one square
mile in the south-east of Chilvers Coton parish, between the boundary
of Bedworth on the south and Griff brook on the north ... From the
Sudeleys the manor passed to the Boteler family and in 1561 was sold to
the Giffords, a Staffordshire family ..."

Note 15: "Geoffrey Foxe, a former employee of Sir Francis Willoughby,
leased some drowned pits at Griff and elsewhere from the Gifford family
who owned part of the area. Foxe spent £600 on draining the pits,
plus another £150 for timber, and established a complex system of
drainage machinery at the site. Unfortunately he was unable to make
any profit, or even pay his rent. Foxe was imprisoned for these and
other debts, and during his incarceration Sir Thomas and Huntingdon
Beaumont leased the mines from the Giffords and seized all Foxe's
machinery (P.R.O., C2 Jas.I F4/53). By 1603 when the Newdegates began
mining at Griff, Sir Thomas Beaumont was apparently successfully
operating one of Foxe's drained pits."

Isaac Bromwich, who was a fellow burgess with the Forest of Dean/ Royal
Ironworks John Gifford in the Cirencester election of 1647 (and who
later wrote scathingly against the Forest of Dean Ironworks), had
attempted to drain the Bedworth (Warwickshire) colliery, immediately
south of Chilvers Coton, in 1640: "There was a multitude of ways of
losing money in coalmining, but water was perhaps the most potent of
all. Richard Knightley and Isaac Bromwich, while struggling to drain
Bedworth colliery in 1640, complained to the mayor of Coventry that
they were 'compelled to run upon two desperate conclusions, either
proceed at a vast charge and hazard, or else give over and lose all.'"
(John Hatcher, _History of the British Coal Industry_ [Oxford:
Clarendon, 1984-], 1:326).

http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi? ... 190&up.y=3

http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0 ... SF2CkfbrS0

http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0 ... vdFk9qqaRg

http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0 ... 4qC5u8NR9g
(I believe the Underdown article mentioned in note 37 shows the
association between Isaac Bromwich and John Gifford. They stood
together for election at Cirencester in 1647.)

http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0 ... KmhXFGIF7w
(Who is John Bromwich?)

http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0 ... hHicOOVhMM

http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0 ... to8LwgvCBU

I wonder if it is certain that the Chilvers Coton Giffards were from
the Staffordshire family? The name Gerard makes me wonder. One of the
Twyford/ Bucks. Giffords married a member of the Dannett family, and I
believe "Gerard" was a name used by the Dannetts.

I believe Nichols _Leicestershire_ shows Acres Temples (called
"D'Acres" in that source) to be a son of Cuthbert Temple of Stanlake,
who was only remotely connected with the Stowe family. Maybe Nichols
was wrong about this?

I know I've seen something about a controversy between the Gifford and
Temple families centering on Chilvers Coton, Warwickshire. Will try to
dig up that source Monday.

**Very sorry if this posting doesn't make a lick of sense!

John Brandon

Re: Some Temple and Giffard wills (continued)

Legg inn av John Brandon » 17 jun 2006 22:45:25

"The body of Gerard Danet now lies in the parish church of Tiltey,
Essex. It seems evident that when the Blackfriars of London was
destroyed, his remains, and probably those of his children and his
monumental brass, were removed. Mary, his second wife, daughter and
co-heiress of Sir Edward Belknap, of Warwickshire ..."

http://books.google.com/books?vid=LCCN0 ... rard+danet

In his recent thread entitled "Alice, wife of Sir Edward Belknap and
John Brugge, Gentleman," Douglas posted a document showing that John
Brugge may have had some association with Chilvers Coton in right of
his wife, Alice Belknap:

C 1/1198/59-60

Date: 1544-1551

John BRYGYS of Ivington, co. Hereford, gentleman, v. John KYLDERMERE,
clerk, and Robert ASSHEBORNE, pedlar.: Household goods (described) and
deeds obtained at Chilvers Coton of Alice, wife of complainant,
formerly Alice Belknap.: WARWICK.

http://groups.google.com/group/soc.gene ... bbe50ed83b


John Brandon

Re: Some Temple and Giffard wills (continued)

Legg inn av John Brandon » 17 jun 2006 23:57:02

I won't continue on with this thread (as it makes my head spin), except
to say --

--The book showing Giffords and Temples with a connection to Chilvers
Cotton concerns the "Newdigate of Arbury" family, and should be in the
Warwickshire local history section of major libraries (at least those
using Library of Congress call nos.).

--I see there is a Gerard Gifford, baptized at Brewood, Staff., in the
1560s, thus a member of the Catholic Staffordshire Giffard family. The
New England John Gifford's seal was three lions in pale--are the arms
of the Staffordshire Giffard family similar? The Staffordshire
Giffards were _very strongly_ Catholic, whereas the New England John
Gifford was puritan or Congregational. I suppose it is possible that a
branch of the Staffordshire family 'turned' Puritan, but I believe they
were mostly confirmed Catholics (who suffered much for their religion).

--Possibly Isaac Bromwich did have a connection to the Catholic
Staffordshire/ Chilvers Coton branch of the Giffards--remember that
Bromwich's wife was a daughter of Sir John Poyntz, while another Poyntz
daughter was said to have married .... Gifford. Under this line of
thinking, Bromwich's association with the Ironworks/ Forest of Dean
Gifford would have been only coincidental.

Arrgh, who knows? It's maddening.

RJM

Re: Some Temple and Giffard wills (continued)

Legg inn av RJM » 18 jun 2006 07:26:21

I believe Nichols _Leicestershire_ shows Acres Temples (called
"D'Acres" in that source) to be a son of Cuthbert Temple of Stanlake,
who was only remotely connected with the Stowe family. Maybe Nichols
was wrong about this?


I've not looked in detail at this branch of the family. In Temple
Prime's book, the abstract of the will of Peter Temple of
Chilverscotton says in part, "... Akres Temple my eldest son ..." .
Although the book contains many errors, I've no particular reason to
believe this is a misread. Temple Prime gives Peter's wife as Ann
Acres.

The will of Anthony Temple (once again as quoted by Temple Prime)
contains a bequest to Elizabeth Akers with no specified relationship.
Alcock (in "Warwickshire Grazier and London Skinner)" gives Anthony's
wife as Jane Acres, so this could be a child of hers by a previous
marriage. She may have been married to Peter Temple's brother-in-law.

Temple Prime gives Cuthbert Temple (of Stanlake) as the father of Peter
Temple (of Chilverscotton).

According to Temple Prime, there was another Acres Temple, the son of
William Temple and grandson of Peter Temple (of Chilverscotton).

John Matthews

John Brandon

Re: Some Temple and Giffard wills (continued)

Legg inn av John Brandon » 18 jun 2006 18:32:14

The will of Anthony Temple (once again as quoted by Temple Prime)
contains a bequest to Elizabeth Akers with no specified relationship.
Alcock (in "Warwickshire Grazier and London Skinner)" gives Anthony's
wife as Jane Acres, so this could be a child of hers by a previous
marriage. She may have been married to Peter Temple's brother-in-law.

Temple Prime gives Cuthbert Temple (of Stanlake) as the father of Peter
Temple (of Chilverscotton).

According to Temple Prime, there was another Acres Temple, the son of
William Temple and grandson of Peter Temple (of Chilverscotton).

Maybe I'll have to look into this some day. I suspect that Temples
Prime's book is not without quite a few serious errors of omission and
comission.

John Brandon

Re: Some Temple and Giffard wills (continued)

Legg inn av John Brandon » 18 jun 2006 18:53:12

--Possibly Isaac Bromwich did have a connection to the Catholic
Staffordshire/ Chilvers Coton branch of the Giffards--remember that
Bromwich's wife was a daughter of Sir John Poyntz, while another Poyntz
daughter was said to have married .... Gifford. Under this line of
thinking, Bromwich's association with the Ironworks/ Forest of Dean
Gifford would have been only coincidental.

If Isaac Bromwich's sister-in-law Francis Poyntz had indeed married
into the Chilvers Coton Giffard family, it might explain Bromwich's
attitude towards the "libeller" (i.e., probably Capt. John Gifford of
the Forest of Dean) in his [Bromwich's] 1650 pamphlet "The spoiles of
the forest of Deane: asserted in answer to a scurrilous libell lately
set forth." Bromwich speaks there of the "late scurrilous libel, the
conception and issue whereof bespeaks the Father, both dictator and
scribe to be men of a beggarly and needy invention, of little breeding
or judgement, language or honesty, otherwise they would not ... like
the Panther, cover their heads, and conceal their names while they seek
to swallow up their neighbours ... " (p. 2). As the unrelated Forest
of Dean Giffords would have the same name--but not the same lineage--as
his in-laws, the Chilvers Coton / Staffordshire Giffards, he could
freely comment on their "little breeding." Perhaps the reference to
the panther, quite close to the armorial device used by the Forest of
Dean/ New England Giffords, was a winking reference to the identity of
the libeller (never mentioned by name in Bromwich's paper). See Isaac
Bromwich, _The spoiles of the forest of Deane: asserted in answer to a
scurrilous libell lately set forth to blast the justice and proceedings
of some commissioners of Parliament in that behalfe_ (London : s.n.,
1650) ["Early English Books, 1641-1700," microfilm roll 1565, item 19].

John Brandon

Re: Some Temple and Giffard wills (continued)

Legg inn av John Brandon » 19 jun 2006 15:38:44

If Isaac Bromwich's sister-in-law Francis Poyntz had indeed married
into the Chilvers Coton Giffard family, it might explain Bromwich's
attitude towards the "libeller" (i.e., probably Capt. John Gifford of
the Forest of Dean) in his [Bromwich's] 1650 pamphlet "The spoiles of
the forest of Deane: asserted in answer to a scurrilous libell lately
set forth." Bromwich speaks there of the "late scurrilous libel, the
conception and issue whereof bespeaks the Father, both dictator and
scribe to be men of a beggarly and needy invention, of little breeding
or judgement, language or honesty, otherwise they would not ... like
the Panther, cover their heads, and conceal their names while they seek
to swallow up their neighbours ... " (p. 2). As the unrelated Forest
of Dean Giffords would have the same name--but not the same lineage--as
his in-laws, the Chilvers Coton / Staffordshire Giffards, he could
freely comment on their "little breeding." Perhaps the reference to
the panther, quite close to the armorial device used by the Forest of
Dean/ New England Giffords, was a winking reference to the identity of
the libeller (never mentioned by name in Bromwich's paper). See Isaac
Bromwich, _The spoiles of the forest of Deane: asserted in answer to a
scurrilous libell lately set forth to blast the justice and proceedings
of some commissioners of Parliament in that behalfe_ (London : s.n.,
1650) ["Early English Books, 1641-1700," microfilm roll 1565, item 19].

All in all, this strikes me as the best explanation for Isaac
Bromwich's refusal to name the libeller: the libeller was named
"Gifford," and Bromwich also had in-laws of that name. Along with
other sources, _VCH Gloucestershire_, vol. 5, which deals with the
Forest of Dean, makes it clear that Capt. John Gifford *must* have been
involved somehow:

pp. 72-73:

Shortly before 1600 Sir Edward Winter built an iron furnace and a forge
on the Newerne stream, which he dammed to creat large ponds. Other
forges and an iron slitting mill were built later, and Sir Edward and
his son Sir John ran the ironworks on an extensive scale, charcoaling
wood from their estate, parts of which they denuded of trees, and from
demesne woodlands of the Forest leased from the Crown. During the
Civil War, until they were burnt by the parliamentary troops of Edward
Massey in 1644, the ironworks were an important asset of local
royalists. After Sir John's flight in 1645 the House of
Commons granted the works to Massey, who was rebuilding one of the
forges later that year. Massey leased them in 1647 to John Gifford,
who destroyed much timber in the Lydney woods. Gifford remained in
possession in 1650 after Massey defected to the royalists and forfeited
his estate [P.R.O., LRRO 5/7A, depositions 1645, no. 31; depositions
1649, no. 2; _Cal. Cttee. for Compounding_, ii. 2142-3.] From 1653 the
ironworks were worked by John Wade, the parliamentary administrator of
the Forest. After the recovery of his estate Sir John Winter resumed
ironworking, ...

p. 340:

During the Civil War production at the king's ironworks was severely
disrupted. The Soudley furnace supplied shot to royalist forces for a
time. In 1644 John Brayne of Littledean, who had apparently been
ordered by Edward Massey, commander of the garrison at Gloucester, to
seize the belongings of Sir John Winter, captured some of the furnaces
and forges, and the following year Prince Rupert's troops apparently
destroyed some works. Later in 1645, when Brayne was operating the
Bradley and Lydbrook forges, the Soudley forge was idle. In the late
1640s John Gifford rebuilt some of the works, including the Parkend
furnace, and in 1649 he was running the Lydbrook furnace and forge and
several of the other works [P.R.O., LRRO 5/7A, depositions 1645, nos.
7, 13; depositions 1649, nos. 47, 60; Glos. R.O., D 2026/X 14, f.
30v.]. Ironmaking ceased in 1650 when parliament ordered the
destruction of all works within the Forest. Most of the remains of the
early 17th-century king's ironworks were destroyed by later activity on
the sites ...

p. 365:

Parliament's victory deprived the area of the influence and leadership
of most of its leading gentry and holders of forest offices ... In
that situation the Forest was dominated between 1645 and 1649 by a
group of former parliamentary army officers, John Giffard, Robert
Kyrle, Griffantius Phillips, John Brayne of Littledean, and Thomas Pury
the younger of Gloucester. They secured control of the ironworks on
the royal demesne and on the surrounding estates and carried on their
operations with little interference: the remaining woodwards, the
minor foresters, and a surveyor and four preservators appointed by
parliament to supervise the supply of cordwood were intimidated by or
colluded with them. Great damage was inflicted: much navy timber was
felled and used for cordwood, and abuses, such as fraudulent cords and
the misappropriation of cordwood, once again went unchecked. It was
estimated that over 35,000 oaks and beeches were felled in the demesne
woods during the 1640s, over half of them marked earlier for use as
ship timber. The woods were also invaded by several hundred cabiners,
often supporting themselves by making barrel staves and trenchers from
stolen wood and by keeping goats. There was also destruction in the
woodlands of the royalist gentry, particularly in Lydney, Tidenham, and
part of the Highmeadow estate at Hadnock (Mon.) [P.R.O., LRRO 5/7A,
com. of inquiry and depositions 1649; for the surveyors and
preservators, ibid. E 178/6080, bk. of parl. ordinances, ff. 13-15v.].
Parliament issued an ordinance against any further felling of timber in
1648 [_Acts & Ords. of Interr._ ed. Firth & Rait, i. 1125-6.] and a
wide-ranging inquiry was carried out the following year, but there was
apparently little improvement in the management of the Forest until
1653 when the government appointed Major John Wade to run the
ironworks.

The lion rampant (three of which are on John Gifford of New England's
seal), holds it paw in the air in front of its head. When Bromwich
writes of the libeller(s), "like the Panther, cover[ing] their heads,
and conceal[ing] their names ...," he is probably punning on the image
of the lion rampant, since a paw extended in front of the head could be
interpreted as an attempt to hide the face.

The arms of the Staffordshire Giffords were apparently "Az. three
stirrups with leathers or two and one."

http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC2 ... ngton+arms

John Brandon

Re: Some Temple and Giffard wills (continued)

Legg inn av John Brandon » 19 jun 2006 16:49:02

The manor of Griff in Chilvers Coton (Warwickshire) was sold "in 1561
to John Gifford and Joyce his wife. It was settled by John Gifford on
his son Walter when he married, and Walter and his son Peter sold it in
1633 to Richard Chamberlain, whose daughter Elizabeth had married
Walter's brother Gerard" (V.C.H. Warwickshire, 4:175-76).

http://books.google.com/books?vid=0yB3- ... ton&pgis=1

This link tends to show that the Chilvers Coton family of Giffard was
part of the Staffordshire family.

John Brandon

Re: Some Temple and Giffard wills (continued)

Legg inn av John Brandon » 27 jun 2006 19:53:07

"The following is a sample of the kinds of matters handled by the Lord
Mayor's Court from a December 1668 session: apprentice William Nithole
with Elizabeth Kollum, spinster, were 'taken in bed together at the
dwelling house of Nicholas Gifford Constable of the parish of St.
Peter's the Poore' and were sent to Bridewell to be 'set to hard labor'
...."

http://books.google.com/books?id=mUguQs ... &q=giffard




I knew that the will of Margaret Giffard, widow, of Hammersmith (proved
1692) could not belong to the Massachusetts immigrant, since Hartley's
_Ironworks on the Saugus_ states that that lady was alive in 1701 when
she petitioned the Massachusetts General Court as to why she should not
be awarded moneys judged (sometime in the 1680's) to be due to her late
husband from Mr. Middlecott. But the coincidence of names
("Hammersmith" was the name of the original ironworks at Lynn, Mass.)
intrigued me, and it DID turn out that there was an interesting
connection to New England:


In the name of God Amen. I Margaret Giffard of Hamersmith in the
County of Midds. widdow being sick and weake in body but of sound and
disposing mind and memory (blessed be God) revoaking all former wills
and Testaments by me at any time heretofore made doe make and declare
this my present last Will and Testament in manor following (that is to
say) ffirst and principally I comend my Soule into the hands of
Almighty God my Creator (... etc.) My body I committ to the Earth to
be decently buried at the discretion of my Executrix hereinafter named.
And I will that not above twenty pounds be expended upon or about my
funerall. And as for such temporall goods and estate as it hath
pleased God to bless me with in this world (my debts and said funerall
expenses being [? thereout] first paid and discharged) I give and
dispose thereof as followeth (that is to say) I give and bequeath to my
four children in Law John Giffard Grace Giffard Elizabeth Giffard and
Ellianor Gifford ffifty pounds a peece in money (that is to say) ffifty
pounds to each and every one of them. Item I give and bequeath unto my
daughters in Law Sarah and Anne Giffard (who are already [? preferred])
five pounds a peece in money and to my daughter in Law Mary Squire five
shillings she having before received her portion. Item I give and
bequeath unto my grandsonn Gifford Squire and to my granddaughter
Margaret Squire children of the said Mary Shire [sic] five pounds
apeece in money (that is to say) five pounds to each of them. Item I
give and bequeath unto my very loveing freind Mary Corbeut wife of
Edmund Corbet of Hamersmith aforesaid Brewster in token of the love and
affection I beare her for the long and faithfull service she had
formerly done me and my husband five pounds in money. Item I give and
bequeath to Mr. John Houghton Apothecary (my Overseer herinafter named)
ffourty shillings to buy him a ring to weare in remembrance of me. ...
Item I give and bequeath unto my said daughter Elianor Giffard my
Executrix herein after named the full summe of tenn pounds (above and
besides the fifty pounds above given her) for her trouble and paines in
executing this my will ... And I make and ordaine my said daughter in
Law Elianor Gifford sole and only Executrix of this my last Will and
Testament and I make and desire my good freind the said Mr. John
Houghton Apothecary to be Overseer thereof to see the same performed
and to be aiding and assisting to my Executrix in the executing the
same. In witness whereof ... (etc.) ... set my hand and seale dated
the one and twentieth day of September Anno Dmi One Thousand Six
Hundred Ninety One ... in the presence of Benj. Woodroffe Tho. Buxton
Richd Eardley George Blackaller.

The family of Giffards who were Margaret's step-children seem to be
the following people christened at St. Peter-le-Poer (from IGI
extracted records):

--Grace Gifford, dau. of Nicholas and Grace, christened 23 Sept. 1655
--Elizabeth Gifford, dau. of Nicholas and Grace, christened 15 Oct.
1656
--Sarah Gifford, dau. of Nicholas and Grace, christened 28 March 1658
--Mary Gifford, dau. of Nicholas and Grace, christened 27 March 1659
--Charles Gifford, son of Nicholas and Grace, christened 24 June 1660
--Ann Gifford, dau. of Nicholas and Grace, christened 2 Feb. 1661
--Elnor Gifforde, dau. of Nicholas and Grace, christened 7 May 1663

Margaret's will mentioned her step-daughter Mary who was the wife of
___ Squire and who had children named Gifford Squire and Margaret
Squire. I recognized the name "Gifford Squire" from Boston, Mass.,
records. The IGI has the following extracted records concerning
persons named Squire in Boston, Massachusetts (which church would this
be?):

--Philip Squire, son of ___ Squire, christened 24 March 1672
--Rebecca Squire, dau. of Thomas and Martha, christened 8 Aug. 1677
--Martha Squire, dau. of Thomas and Martha, christened 22 May 1679
--Martha Squire, dau. of Thomas and Martha, christened 9 Aug. 1681
--John Squire [no parents named], christened 3 May 1685
--Margaret Squire [no parents named], christened 16 Aug. 1685
--Gifford Squire, son of John and Mary, christened 22 Jan. 1686
--Giffard Squire [no parents named], christened 30 Jan. 1687

http://books.google.com/books?vid=00eor ... ard+squire

http://books.google.com/books?vid=00eor ... ard+squire

Interestingly, the church of St. Peter-le-Poer shows that Nicholas
Squire, son of John and Mary, was christened 29 Nov. 1688, so evidently
the family returned from New England between Jan. 1687 and November
1688.

The will of widow Margaret Giffard of Hammersmith named "Mr. John
Houghton, Apothecary" as overseer. I wonder if this is the same person
as the John Houghton--apothecary, writer, and Fellow of the Royal
Society--who gets a short notice in the DNB:

"HOUGHTON, JOHN (d. 1705), writer on agriculture and trade, studied for
a time at Corpus Christi College, Cambridge ... He subsequently became
an apothecary and dealer in tea, coffee, chocolate, and other luxuries,
first 'against the Ship Tavern in St. Bartholomew Lane, behind the
Royal Exchange,' but by 14 Dec. 1703 at the 'Golden Fleece at the
corner of Little Eastcheap in Gracechurch Street,' London. He
constituted himself a kind of agent for advertisers, and his
advertisements appended to his 'Collections' are newspaper curiosities.
He died in 1705. In the letters o fadministration, P.C.C., granted on
10 Nov. 1705 to his widow Elizabeth, Houghton is described as late of
the parish of St. Leonard, Eastcheap, London. He was elected F.R.S. on
29 Jan. 1680, and served on the society's committee for agriculture."

* * * * * *

John Houghton, apothecary, has a much-expanded bio. in the new ODNB.
It adds several details, calling him son of Roger Houghton, King's
Embroiderer, and stating that his wife was Elizabeth Clagett.

I suspect that John and Mary (Gifford) Squire may have come over to New
England to "visit" Mr. and Mrs. Gifford after discovering that they
meant to cut their only daughter off with a few shillings. But Mr.
John Gifford made his will on 10 September 1686, and John and Mary
Squire were back in England by 29 Nov. 1688, when their son Nicholas
Squire was baptized at St. Peter-le-Poer.


"The following is a sample of the kinds of matters handled by the Lord
Mayor's Court from a December 1668 session: apprentice William Nithole
with Elizabeth Kollum, spinster, were 'taken in bed together at the
dwelling house of Nicholas Gifford Constable of the parish of St.
Peter's the Poore' and were sent to Bridewell to be 'set to hard labor'
....

John Brandon

Re: Some Temple and Giffard wills (continued)

Legg inn av John Brandon » 27 jun 2006 19:58:04

Here is the Houghton-Clagett marriage ...

http://books.google.com/books?vid=LCCN1 ... t+houghton

John Brandon

Re: Some Temple and Giffard wills (continued)

Legg inn av John Brandon » 27 jun 2006 20:29:55

The family of Giffards who were Margaret's step-children seem to be
the following people christened at St. Peter-le-Poer (from IGI
extracted records):

--Grace Gifford, dau. of Nicholas and Grace, christened 23 Sept. 1655
--Elizabeth Gifford, dau. of Nicholas and Grace, christened 15 Oct.
1656
--Sarah Gifford, dau. of Nicholas and Grace, christened 28 March 1658
--Mary Gifford, dau. of Nicholas and Grace, christened 27 March 1659
--Charles Gifford, son of Nicholas and Grace, christened 24 June 1660
--Ann Gifford, dau. of Nicholas and Grace, christened 2 Feb. 1661
--Elnor Gifforde, dau. of Nicholas and Grace, christened 7 May 1663


Who was this Grace Giffard who died in 1667?

http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0 ... KDQLr2ttxI

John Brandon

Re: Some Temple and Giffard wills (continued)

Legg inn av John Brandon » 27 jun 2006 21:06:19

The family of Giffards who were Margaret's step-children seem to be
the following people christened at St. Peter-le-Poer (from IGI
extracted records):

--Grace Gifford, dau. of Nicholas and Grace, christened 23 Sept. 1655
--Elizabeth Gifford, dau. of Nicholas and Grace, christened 15 Oct.
1656
--Sarah Gifford, dau. of Nicholas and Grace, christened 28 March 1658
--Mary Gifford, dau. of Nicholas and Grace, christened 27 March 1659
--Charles Gifford, son of Nicholas and Grace, christened 24 June 1660
--Ann Gifford, dau. of Nicholas and Grace, christened 2 Feb. 1661
--Elnor Gifforde, dau. of Nicholas and Grace, christened 7 May 1663

One baptism I apparently didn't notice was, from extracted IGI,

St Botolph Without Aldgate, London

Nicholas Giffard, 14 August 1654, son of Nicholas and Grace

St. Botolph is quite close to St. Katherine-by-the-Tower as well as All
Hallows Barking, now usually called All Hallows-by-the-Tower (I think
this is correct).

(Ethel Farrington Smith's book, _Colonial American Doctresses: A
Genealogical and Biographical Account of Women Who Practiced Medicine
and Chirurgery in Colonial America_, notes that, "as of 1 September
1657, John [Giffard] was said to be 'of the Parish of All-hallowes
Barking London mrchant aged thirtie fower yeeres or thereabouts'
[Suffolk Co., Mass., Deeds, 3:155-56]".)

Gjest

Re: Some Temple and Giffard wills (continued)

Legg inn av Gjest » 27 jun 2006 23:03:23

John Brandon schrieb:

St. Botolph is quite close to St. Katherine-by-the-Tower as well as All
Hallows Barking, now usually called All Hallows-by-the-Tower (I think
this is correct).

Indeed - another old name was All Hallows, Barkingside - as it's not
actually in Barking. I was there (All Hallows) just this afternoon...

John Matthews

Re: Some Temple and Giffard wills (continued)

Legg inn av John Matthews » 28 jun 2006 07:37:36

mjcar@btinternet.com wrote:
John Brandon schrieb:

St. Botolph is quite close to St. Katherine-by-the-Tower as well as All
Hallows Barking, now usually called All Hallows-by-the-Tower (I think
this is correct).

Indeed - another old name was All Hallows, Barkingside - as it's not
actually in Barking. I was there (All Hallows) just this afternoon...

I believe All Hallows was owned by Barking Abbey - hence the name. I
think it's a pity that we're losing these old names. Not to mention the
problems it creates for historians and genealogists.

John Matthews

Gjest

Re: Some Temple and Giffard wills (continued)

Legg inn av Gjest » 28 jun 2006 13:33:02

John Matthews writes:


I believe All Hallows was owned by Barking Abbey - hence the name. I
think it's a pity that we're losing these old names. Not to mention the
problems it creates for historians and genealogists.



In 675 Eorconweald, Bishop of London founded an abbey at Barking and endowed
it with the lands upon which the church was built

Remains of a Saxon church have been found and of later ones 1000-1060

In 1650 27 barrels of gunpowder exploded beside the churchyard, blowing up
over 50 houses including the Rose Tavern where the parish dinner was being
held, causing many deaths

In 1922 it became the headquarters of TOC H; it was bombed in 1940 and
rebuilt 1949-58

John Quincy Adams was married there in 1797

Very easy to get confused with London churches - there are many All Hallows,
including All Hallows Lombard Street; All Hallows London Wall; All Hallows
Staining Mark Lane; All Hallows the Great Upper Thames Street - all first
mentioned before 1250

cheers

Simon

[All this comes from The London Encyclopedia by Ben Weinreb and Christopher
Hibbert 1995 MacMillan]

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