Wills of Kent and Croil wills

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charlotte smith

Wills of Kent and Croil wills

Legg inn av charlotte smith » 01 jun 2006 06:33:01

Louie Staley wrote the wills of the Rykhills didn't give infor on Echyngham.

I found that they did indeed. They eliminated the fact that Wm Rykhill was the husband of Joan Echyngham, daughter of Alice Batisford and Wm Echyngham.. William and Rosa were married for many years and all children listed. There is a John Rykhill listed as son and I have found a doucment which I published on here before that states that in a court case in Winchelsea John Rykhill husband of Joan , daughter of Wm Ecyngham and her sister elizabeth owned land in Winchelsea etc. etc. So it was John Rykhill wo married Joan and not his father Wm. There is a son William but i have searched him down and found his wife and family too. So the wills give a correction to the records and I suspect someone just decided the only importnat Rykhill was William. I can follow John Rykhill and Joan Echyngham down through their daughter who married Ricahrd Brune.


charlotte c smith

Louise Staley

Re: Wills of Kent and Croil wills

Legg inn av Louise Staley » 01 jun 2006 07:25:06

charlotte smith wrote:
Louie Staley wrote the wills of the Rykhills didn't give infor on Echyngham.

What I actually said was:
"My broader point is here is another primary source, to add to the ones
we already have in building a picture of the Echynghams. On that note
the wills of Sir William Rykhill (Book 23, page 342) and his wife Rosa
Medlan (Book 21, page 94) are also in the Kent Wills collection however
they do not appear to add any more information to the Echyngham line."

The point I was making above is that neither Sir William Rykhill nor
Rosa Medlan's wills mention any Echyngham relationships.

I would also note that it is considered extremely rude to not cite
original posts when commenting on them, particularly when commenting in
a negative fashion. It is also a breach of USENET etiquette to refuse to
post within threads so everybody can keep track of the discussion.
I found that they did indeed. They eliminated the fact that Wm Rykhill was
the husband of Joan Echyngham, daughter of Alice Batisford and Wm Echyngham.

I have NO IDEA what you are talking about here. Who made the suggestion
Joan Echyngham married Sir William Rykhill? None of the posters on this
topic have suggested this. Is this in one of the secondary sources you
are so fond of referring to such as Saul (Scenes from Provincial Life-
Knightly families in Sussex 1280-1400), Hall (Echyngham of Echyngham) or
Ball (Stained Glass Windows of Nettlestead Church)?

William and Rosa were married for many years and all children listed. There
is a John Rykhill listed as son and I have found a doucment which I
published on here before that states that in a court case in Winchelsea
John Rykhill husband of Joan , daughter of Wm Ecyngham and her sister
elizabeth owned land in Winchelsea etc. etc. So it was John Rykhill wo
married Joan and not his father Wm. There is a son William but i have
searched him down and found his wife and family too.

The will of Rosa Medlan says "To William Rikhill, John Rikhill, Thomas
Rikhill and Nicholas Rikhill my sons and the said Matilda my daughter
each a silver covered cup." So their children were not only William and
John as you list above.

So the wills give a
correction to the records and I suspect someone just decided the only
importnat Rykhill was William. I can follow John Rykhill and Joan Echyngham
down through their daughter who married Ricahrd Brune.

Again, what records are you referring to? Ball's article is not a
"record" it is merely a 1908 article in Archaeologica Cantiana which is
known to have errors (see http://tinyurl.com/oo58h where you list some
of them).

And, as for the document you allude to, I assume you are referring to
this document below, which, as you say, you have posted before and
described as part of John Rykhill's 1415 IPM. In passing I note that
John Rykhill's mother, Rosa, mentions John as alive in her 1418 will so
either the 1415 date is incorrect or this is not his IPM but some other
document referring to him.

"John Rykhill, as in his right of Joan his wife, and Elizabeth her
sister, daughters of William lord of Echyngham, knight, and of Joan his
wife, have 36 3/8 yards in 2 tofts lying together in the same quarter
which descended to them by hereditary right on the death of Joan their
mother and are held of the king in chief by fee-farm of 8 ¾ d being
worth 11 ¼ d yearly to John(as in right of Joan his wife) and Elizabeth."

This is the primary document which places Joan and Elizabeth Echyngham
as daughters of Joan Fitzalan rather than Alice Batisford or another
unknown wife of William Echyngham. A construction, I note, which fits
with Alice Batisford dying s.p. before 21 January 1406 so her sister's
son, Sir Roger Fiennes, could be the sole heir of his grandmother
Margery Peplesham.

Louise
charlotte c smith

Ye Old One

Re: Re: Wills of Kent and Croil wills

Legg inn av Ye Old One » 02 jun 2006 18:47:54

On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 06:25:06 GMT, Louise Staley <caramut@bigpond.com>
enriched this group when s/he wrote:

charlotte smith wrote:
Louie Staley wrote the wills of the Rykhills didn't give infor on Echyngham.

What I actually said was:
"My broader point is here is another primary source, to add to the ones
we already have in building a picture of the Echynghams. On that note
the wills of Sir William Rykhill (Book 23, page 342) and his wife Rosa
Medlan (Book 21, page 94) are also in the Kent Wills collection however
they do not appear to add any more information to the Echyngham line."

The point I was making above is that neither Sir William Rykhill nor
Rosa Medlan's wills mention any Echyngham relationships.

I would also note that it is considered extremely rude to not cite
original posts when commenting on them, particularly when commenting in
a negative fashion. It is also a breach of USENET etiquette to refuse to
post within threads so everybody can keep track of the discussion.

I found that they did indeed. They eliminated the fact that Wm Rykhill was
the husband of Joan Echyngham, daughter of Alice Batisford and Wm Echyngham.

I have NO IDEA what you are talking about here. Who made the suggestion
Joan Echyngham married Sir William Rykhill? None of the posters on this
topic have suggested this. Is this in one of the secondary sources you
are so fond of referring to such as Saul (Scenes from Provincial Life-
Knightly families in Sussex 1280-1400), Hall (Echyngham of Echyngham) or
Ball (Stained Glass Windows of Nettlestead Church)?


[snip]

Hi Louise, noting your interest in Echynham I thought you may like
this from the Patent Rolls:-

http://sdrc.lib.uiowa.edu/patentrolls/r ... ge0210.pdf
http://sdrc.lib.uiowa.edu/patentrolls/r ... ge0211.pdf

It starts at the very bottom of the first page and then continues at
the top of the second page.

--
Bob.

angcilla

Re: Re: Wills of Kent and Croil wills

Legg inn av angcilla » 02 jun 2006 21:02:45

And, as for the document you allude to, I assume you are referring to
this document below, which, as you say, you have posted before and
described as part of John Rykhill's 1415 IPM. In passing I note that
John Rykhill's mother, Rosa, mentions John as alive in her 1418 will so
either the 1415 date is incorrect or this is not his IPM but some other
document referring to him.

The above information was obtained from East Sussex Record Office,
Reference RYE 146/2 Writ of Inquistion Ad Quod Damnum and Inquistiohn
thereofn(copy of c 1585) creation dates 1414-1415

(i)12 Dec 1414 Writ directed to Roger Gate and Thomas Oxenbregg reciting
that the mayor and commanlty have propsed to enclose the town of
Winchelsea with a wall within a narrower ambit and seek royal aid since
the present area of the twon is too large for the inhabitants the
enclosing of which would be too grat ab urden. inquisitin is to be made
into what damage there will be to the crown and others, how and what
tenements the wall will be built upon, their srvices and annual value
and how far these will be affected; wherethere sufficient land will
remain to maintain their srvices.. The mayor and baliff of Winchelsea
are to summon a jury for this purpose.

The 1415 inquisiton by John Rykhill was in answer to this. giving
description of property etc. Inquistion no 503 begins on page `278,John
Rykhill's item is on page 280

charlotte smith

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Louise Staley

Re: Wills of Kent and Croil wills

Legg inn av Louise Staley » 03 jun 2006 01:09:05

Ye Old One wrote:

Hi Louise, noting your interest in Echynham I thought you may like
this from the Patent Rolls:-

http://sdrc.lib.uiowa.edu/patentrolls/r ... ge0210.pdf
http://sdrc.lib.uiowa.edu/patentrolls/r ... ge0211.pdf

It starts at the very bottom of the first page and then continues at
the top of the second page.

--
Bob.

Thanks Bob, for this family, everything is useful because there is so
much secondary material out there with no sources that every primary
mention of the Echynghams needs to be grasped with both hands. In this
case these extracts provide evidence that the wife of James Echyngham
was named Joan (possibly Dakeny) and that Sir William Echyngam was
their son.

cheers
Louise

Ye Old One

Re: Re: Wills of Kent and Croil wills

Legg inn av Ye Old One » 03 jun 2006 02:01:10

On 2 Jun 2006 17:09:05 -0700, "Louise Staley" <caramut@bigpond.com>
enriched this group when s/he wrote:

Ye Old One wrote:

Hi Louise, noting your interest in Echynham I thought you may like
this from the Patent Rolls:-

http://sdrc.lib.uiowa.edu/patentrolls/r ... ge0210.pdf
http://sdrc.lib.uiowa.edu/patentrolls/r ... ge0211.pdf

It starts at the very bottom of the first page and then continues at
the top of the second page.

--
Bob.

Thanks Bob, for this family, everything is useful because there is so
much secondary material out there with no sources that every primary
mention of the Echynghams needs to be grasped with both hands. In this
case these extracts provide evidence that the wife of James Echyngham
was named Joan (possibly Dakeny) and that Sir William Echyngam was
their son.

cheers
Louise

Glad to help. Here are

http://sdrc.lib.uiowa.edu/patentrolls/r ... ge0440.pdf
Elizabeth complaining that lands had been seized by the king.

http://sdrc.lib.uiowa.edu/patentrolls/e ... ge0013.pdf
Richard nominating William as attorney along with Robert de Ore.

http://sdrc.lib.uiowa.edu/patentrolls/e ... ge0224.pdf
William deeding land to the church to enlarge graveyard.

http://sdrc.lib.uiowa.edu/patentrolls/r ... ge0624.pdf
Exemption for life from certain services.

There are lots of other references on the site. This link should take
you to the search results but watch the line wrap (if it does).

http://search.atomz.com/search/?sp-q=Ec ... m=1&sp-s=0

--
Bob.

angcilla

Re: Re: Wills of Kent and Croil wills

Legg inn av angcilla » 03 jun 2006 04:43:06

This is the primary document which places Joan and Elizabeth Echyngham
as daughters of Joan Fitzalan rather than Alice Batisford or another
unknown wife of William Echyngham. A construction, I note, which fits
with Alice Batisford dying s.p. before 21 January 1406 so her sister's
son, Sir Roger Fiennes, could be the sole heir of his grandmother
Margery Peplesham.


Joan Fitzalan was married to Wm de Brian and he died 30 Sept 1395 and
buried Seal, Kent. She probably didn't marry Echyngham until at least
1396/7. Joan died 1404 leaving son Thomas for sure. Could she have been
married and had Joan and Elizabeth and Thomas during this time frame
and then Joan was already married to John Rykhill in the 1415 cocument
and Elizabeth unmarried, but we know she married Thomas Hoo about 1420.
The time frame gets real tight here that is why I am questioning the
article stating that Joan was daughter of Joan...whoever translated
could be wrong. I am trying to get the original so it can be looked at.

charlotte smith

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angcilla

Re: Re: Wills of Kent and Croil wills

Legg inn av angcilla » 03 jun 2006 05:28:14

Louise staley wrote:

Thanks Bob, for this family, everything is useful because there is so
much secondary material out there with no sources that every primary
mention of the Echynghams needs to be grasped with both hands. In this
case these extracts provide evidence that the wife of James Echyngham
was named Joan (possibly Dakeny) and that Sir William Echyngam was
their son.

I have the seal for James Echyngham showing the arms of his wife Joan
with his. This was published in Archaelogia Cantiana , Kent Arch
Society Vol ;III 1880 Page137-144 The late Rev. Thomas Streaatfeld pf
Chart's edge. Plate is given. I found the arms of joan, wife of
James, in the Hearldy book by Foster under the name Joan Dabeni. A
English source tells me it is probably Dakaney. I will send a copy of
the arms to anyone via an attachment. It says S Jacoi de Echingham 7 Ed
III


charlotte smith

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