CP Omission? - Hodleston

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Leo van de Pas

CP Omission? - Hodleston

Legg inn av Leo van de Pas » 27 mai 2006 07:00:02

According to Burke's Landed Gentry there was a Sir John de Hodleston who was summoned to a council at Newcastle-on-Tyne, and ordered 26 September 26. Edward I, to attend the Kingh at Carlisle, with horse and arms, in the record of which he is styled a Baron.

In CP I cannot find an entry for him under Hodleston or Hudleston, by which name his descendants are known.

The article in Burke's Landed Gentry skips over generations but as I presume the lineage in general to be correct he is an ancestor of Gateway Ancestors William Bladen and John Yates, as well as of Fletcher Christian and the late Queen Mother.

Should he have an entry in CP? And does anyone know how he is an ancestor of the later Hudlestons?

With many thanks
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia

Tim Powys-Lybbe

Re: CP Omission? - Hodleston

Legg inn av Tim Powys-Lybbe » 27 mai 2006 10:16:31

In message of 27 May, leovdpas@netspeed.com.au ("Leo van de Pas") wrote:

According to Burke's Landed Gentry there was a Sir John de Hodleston
who was summoned to a council at Newcastle-on-Tyne, and ordered 26
September 26. Edward I, to attend the Kingh at Carlisle, with horse
and arms, in the record of which he is styled a Baron.

In CP I cannot find an entry for him under Hodleston or Hudleston, by
which name his descendants are known.

The article in Burke's Landed Gentry skips over generations but as I
presume the lineage in general to be correct he is an ancestor of
Gateway Ancestors William Bladen and John Yates, as well as of
Fletcher Christian and the late Queen Mother.

Should he have an entry in CP?

Not according to the rules in Sanders in his "English Baronies" where
barons were people who paid scutage and had nothing to do with being
summoned to Parliament.

And does anyone know how he is an ancestor of the later Hudlestons?

A family of Hudlestons has a pedigree in the 1615 visitation of
Cumberland which starts in the time of Edward I.

This pedigree goes on to 1637 (work that out!), all three pages of it,
and with the usual paucity of dates and references.

--
Tim Powys-Lybbe                                          tim@powys.org
             For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org

Chris Phillips

Re: CP Omission? - Hodleston

Legg inn av Chris Phillips » 27 mai 2006 11:40:37

Leo van de Pas wrote:
According to Burke's Landed Gentry there was a Sir John de Hodleston who
was summoned to a council at Newcastle-on-Tyne, and ordered 26 September 26.

Edward I, to attend the Kingh at Carlisle, with horse and arms, in the
record of which he is styled a Baron.
In CP I cannot find an entry for him under Hodleston or Hudleston, by
which name his descendants are known.

The article in Burke's Landed Gentry skips over generations but as I
presume the lineage in general to be correct he is an ancestor of Gateway

Ancestors William Bladen and John Yates, as well as of Fletcher Christian
and the late Queen Mother.
Should he have an entry in CP? And does anyone know how he is an ancestor
of the later Hudlestons?



I think from CP's point of view it would depend on the status of the council
to which he was summoned. If it was just a council, the summons wouldn't be
considered to have created a barony (in the legal theory that evolved
centuries later), but if it was a full Parliament, it would.

Chris Phillips

Chris Dickinson

Re: CP Omission? - Hodleston

Legg inn av Chris Dickinson » 27 mai 2006 12:57:24

Leo van de Pas wrote:

According to Burke's Landed Gentry there was a Sir John de Hodleston who
was summoned to a council at Newcastle-on-Tyne, and ordered 26 September
26. Edward I, to attend the Kingh at Carlisle, with horse and arms, in the
record of which he is styled a Baron.

In CP I cannot find an entry for him under Hodleston or Hudleston, by which
name his descendants are known.

The article in Burke's Landed Gentry skips over generations but as I
presume the lineage in general to be correct he is an ancestor of Gateway
Ancestors William Bladen and John Yates, as well as of Fletcher Christian
and the late Queen Mother.

Should he have an entry in CP? And does anyone know how he is an ancestor
of the later Hudlestons?


C. Roy Hudleston in 'Cumberland Families and Heraldry' states:

|John de Hudleston (d. c. 1252) .... marr. Joan, dau. and heir of Adam de
Boyvill, qv, and acquired the Lordship of Millom, which passed to their son
Sir John Hudleston (d. before 1306), a noted soldier, who fought against the
Welsh and Scots, and was present at the Battle of Falkirk and at the seige
of Caerlaverock. He was Governor of Galloway and Keeper of Ayr, Wigtown,
Cruggleton and Botel Castels 1297. He sealed the Barons' letter to the Pope
as Lord of Aneys 1301.|

A quick skim of the rest of this entry on the Hudlestons of Millom would
seem to suggest that the lineage from Sir John goes down to two heiresses
who sold the Lordship of Millom to Sir James Lowther in 1774 - however the
line is quite complicated, and without sitting down and drawing a chart, I
wouldn't like to guarantee that they were his descendants.

Chris

Chris Dickinson

Re: CP Omission? - Hodleston

Legg inn av Chris Dickinson » 27 mai 2006 14:24:52

I wrote:

Leo van de Pas wrote:

According to Burke's Landed Gentry there was a Sir John de Hodleston who
was summoned to a council at Newcastle-on-Tyne, and ordered 26 September
26. Edward I, to attend the Kingh at Carlisle, with horse and arms, in the
record of which he is styled a Baron.
snip

C. Roy Hudleston in 'Cumberland Families and Heraldry' states:

|John de Hudleston (d. c. 1252) .... marr. Joan, dau. and heir of Adam de
Boyvill, qv, and acquired the Lordship of Millom, which passed to their son
Sir John Hudleston (d. before 1306), a noted soldier, who fought against
the Welsh and Scots, and was present at the Battle of Falkirk and at the
seige of Caerlaverock. He was Governor of Galloway and Keeper of Ayr,
Wigtown, Cruggleton and Botel Castels 1297. He sealed the Barons' letter to
the Pope as Lord of Aneys 1301.|

A quick skim of the rest of this entry on the Hudlestons of Millom would
seem to suggest that the lineage from Sir John goes down to two heiresses
who sold the Lordship of Millom to Sir James Lowther in 1774 - however the
line is quite complicated, and without sitting down and drawing a chart, I
wouldn't like to guarantee that they were his descendants.


I realise belatedly that this may have confused some of you! The Lordship
of Millom refers to the Lordship of the Manor of Millom, a status that gave
no noble entitlement. Sir John's status as Baron would seem here to derive
from 'Aneys'.

see http://www.briantimms.com/baronsletter/background.htm

I notice that another Cumbrian lord, Thomas de Multon, appears on this list
(my Towerson family claimed in the nineteenth century to have saved his
daughter from being killed by a boar! Ha!)

Chris

Merilyn Pedrick

Re: CP Omission? - Hodleston

Legg inn av Merilyn Pedrick » 28 mai 2006 02:10:02

Dear Chris
I would be most interested to know if you can see a Katherine Huddlestone of
Crackenthorpe, Westmorland, in the early 1400s married to John Machell or
Mauchell. She is my 14th great grandmother.
Merilyn Pedrick

-------Original Message-------

From: Chris Dickinson
Date: 05/27/06 21:41:15
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: CP Omission? - Hodleston

Leo van de Pas wrote:

According to Burke's Landed Gentry there was a Sir John de Hodleston who
was summoned to a council at Newcastle-on-Tyne, and ordered 26 September
26. Edward I, to attend the Kingh at Carlisle, with horse and arms, in the
record of which he is styled a Baron.

In CP I cannot find an entry for him under Hodleston or Hudleston, by which
name his descendants are known.

The article in Burke's Landed Gentry skips over generations but as I
presume the lineage in general to be correct he is an ancestor of Gateway
Ancestors William Bladen and John Yates, as well as of Fletcher Christian
and the late Queen Mother.

Should he have an entry in CP? And does anyone know how he is an ancestor
of the later Hudlestons?


C. Roy Hudleston in 'Cumberland Families and Heraldry' states:

|John de Hudleston (d. c. 1252) .... marr. Joan, dau. and heir of Adam de
Boyvill, qv, and acquired the Lordship of Millom, which passed to their son
Sir John Hudleston (d. before 1306), a noted soldier, who fought against the
Welsh and Scots, and was present at the Battle of Falkirk and at the seige
of Caerlaverock. He was Governor of Galloway and Keeper of Ayr, Wigtown,
Cruggleton and Botel Castels 1297. He sealed the Barons' letter to the Pope
as Lord of Aneys 1301.|

A quick skim of the rest of this entry on the Hudlestons of Millom would
seem to suggest that the lineage from Sir John goes down to two heiresses
who sold the Lordship of Millom to Sir James Lowther in 1774 - however the
line is quite complicated, and without sitting down and drawing a chart, I
wouldn't like to guarantee that they were his descendants.

Chris

Chris Dickinson

Re: CP Omission? - Hodleston

Legg inn av Chris Dickinson » 28 mai 2006 03:01:38

Merilyn Pedrick wrote:

I would be most interested to know if you can see a Katherine Huddlestone
of
Crackenthorpe, Westmorland, in the early 1400s married to John Machell or
Mauchell. She is my 14th great grandmother.
Merilyn Pedrick


I can't see anything in this volume. On the whole, women tend not to get
mentioned in this book unless they marry or are a daughter of another entry
in the book!

Also, this work is primarily about Cumberland. There is a sister volume by
R. S. Boumphrey: 'An Armorial for Westmorland and Lonsdale', published in
1975; but I don't have a copy of this. Possibly someone else on the list has
and can do a look-up?

Chris

Gjest

Re: CP Omission? - Hodleston

Legg inn av Gjest » 29 mai 2006 16:40:47

"Leo van de Pas" schrieb:

According to Burke's Landed Gentry there was a Sir John de Hodleston who was summoned to a council at Newcastle-on-Tyne, and ordered 26 September 26. Edward I, to attend the Kingh at Carlisle, with horse and arms, in the record of which he is styled a Baron.

In CP I cannot find an entry for him under Hodleston or Hudleston, by which name his descendants are known.

The article in Burke's Landed Gentry skips over generations but as I presume the lineage in general to be correct he is an ancestor of Gateway Ancestors William Bladen and John Yates, as well as of Fletcher Christian and the late Queen Mother.

Should he have an entry in CP? And does anyone know how he is an ancestor of the later Hudlestons?

Dear Leo

Sir John Hudleston was indeed the ancestors of almost all Hudlestons,
including those of Millom, of Lincoln, and of Cambridgeshire. I will
try to post fuller details shortly.

Regards, Michael

Gjest

Re: CP Omission? - Hodleston

Legg inn av Gjest » 30 mai 2006 16:15:51

"Leo van de Pas" wrote:
According to Burke's Landed Gentry there was a Sir John de Hodleston who was summoned to a council at Newcastle-on-Tyne, and ordered 26 September 26. Edward I, to attend the King at Carlisle (snip). Does anyone know how he is an ancestor of the later Hudlestons?


1b. John Hudleston, living 1251, younger brother of Richard de
Hudleston of Hudleston; died circa 1252 (see Trans. CWAAS NS iii 86-7),
married Joan, daughter and heir of Adam de Boyvill, of Millom. Issue:

2a. Sir John de Hudleston, son and heir; ff 1292-1311; summoned as a
baron, 1297; served in the Scottish campaigns of Edward I (see Knights
of Edward I); married Sibyl, daughter of Sir Lawrence FitzRichard de
Cornwall (illegitimate son of Richard, Earl of Cornwall, himself
younger son of King John). Issue:

3a. Sir Richard de Hudleston, called le Neveu; son and heir; ff 1282;
pardoned for involvement in Gaveston's murder, 1313; Knight of the
Shire for Westmorland, 1328; died 1335 (IPM); married Alice, daughter
of Richard Troughton (Nicholson & Burn). Issue:

4a. Sibyl Hudleston, married 1331 Robert de Clitheroe, died 1343
leaving issue (VCH Lancs vol 6)

4b. Robert Hudleston, son and heir apparent, ff 1325; died without
issue

4c. Sir John Hudleston, younger son and heir, ff 1335-1338; had licence
to crenallate his house, 1335; plaintiff in Plea Roll case, 1336 (see
Furness Abbey Coucher Book); married Maud de Pennington, daughter of
Sir William de Pennington (Nicholson & Burns). Issue:

5a. Alice Hudleston, married 1343 John de Threlkeld, son of Sir John de
Threlkeld (Cumbria RO DLON/L5/1/50/5)

5b. Sir John Hudleston, son and heir; of Millom; "lately dead" in 1398
(see PRO SC8/214/10668-9); married firstly Anne Fenwick; married
secondly Katherine Tempest [said to be of the family of Tempest of
Bowling, Yorkshire, but this is an anachronism]. Issue (by second
marriage):

6a. Sir Richard Hudleston, son and heir; of Millom; a minor in 1398,
but old enough to have participated in a raid against his late father's
Millom estates, then held by his guardian, Robert, 3rd Lord Harrington;
at Agincourt, 1415; ff 24 Henry VI; married the sister of Sir William
Harrington, KG. Issue:

7a. Agnes Hudleston, married William Greene; parents of Thomas Greene
of Gressingham, Lancs (Vis. Herts); ancestors inter alia of the Docwras
of Putteridge, Herts

7b. Anne (illegitimate daughter by Katherine Steele, afterwards wife of
Richard de Charnock), ff 1432-63 (see Cumbria RO DSTAN/1/42-3, 45)

7c. Sir John Hudleston, MP for Cumberland, 7 Edward IV; monument in
Millom Church; died at an advanced age; IPM 1495; married [?Joan].
Issue:

8a. Sir Richard Hudleston, KB, son and heir apparent; died v.p. 1483;
married Margaret Nevill, natural daughter of the Earl of Warwick, died
1499. Issue:

9a. Richard Hudleston, aged 17 in 1495, when he was heir to his
paternal grandfather; died 1503; married Elizabeth Dacre; no issue

9b. Joan Hudleston, coheir to her brother; married Mr Fleming
[allegedly ancestors of HMS Bounty mutineer, Fletcher Christian]

9c. Margaret Hudleston, coheir to her brother; married Lancelot Salkeld

8b. Mary Hudleston, married 1483 John Pennington

8c. Anne Hudleston, married Sir Thomas Curwen, died 1522

8d. Sir John Hudleston; younger son and eventual heir; succeeded to the
Millom estates, which were entailed in tail male; Sheriff of
Cumberland, 1507; Sheriff of Gloucestershire; benefactor of Hailes
Abbey; died 3 Henry VIII; married Joan, daughter and coheir of Sir
Miles Stapleton and widow of Sir Christopher Harcourt, died 1519 (see
North Country Wills, pp 96-97). Issue:

9a. Sir John Hudleston, son and heir; of Southam, Gloucestershire;
married and had numerous issue, including:

10a. Anthony Hudleston, of Millom; ancestor to the later Hudlestons of
Millom

10b. Henry Hudleston

10c. Eleanor Hudleston, married Kinard de la Bere

10d. Richard Hudleston

10e. Anne Hudleston, married Ralph Latus

10f. Bridget Hudleston, married firstly Sir Hugh Ayscough; married
secondly William Pennington

10g. Andrew Hudleston, of Farrington, Lancs; ancestor of the Hudlestons
of Hutton John, Kelston etc

9b. Elizabeth Hudleston, married firstly Mr Leigh of Isel Hall; married
secondly Sir Edward Redman (d 1510)

8e. Sir William Hudleston, ancestor of the Hudlestons of Sawston, Cambs
(see Vis Cambs); married Lady Isabel Nevill, daughter of John, Marquess
of Montagu. Left issue.

8f. Henry Hudleston, died 1489 (see North Country Wills, Surtees Soc.
Pub. 116 pp 60-61)

6b. Sir William Hudleston, of age in 1408; at Agincourt, 1415; issue:

7a. Robert Hudleston, of Rowston, Lincs; ff 1487; a legatee of Robert
Hudleston of Lincoln (see Lincolnshire Pedigrees); married Alice
Savile, daughter of John Savile. Issue:

8a. Godfrey Hudleston, held the manor of Rowston; IPM 1 Elizabeth;
married Elizabeth Beache. Issue:

9a. [Robert/Rowland] Hudleston, of Rowston, Pinchbeck & Dorrington;
purchased the manor of Bower Hall in Digby; buried at Pinchbeck, 31
October 1564; will proved at Lincoln the same day; married Alice Winter
of Swineshead. Issue:

10a. Richard Hudleston of Pinchbeck, aged 18 in 1564; buried at
Pinchbeck, 15 August 1584; married Rachel Fitzwilliams (who had three
subsequent husbands). Issue:

11a. Jane Hudleston, daughter and heir; baptised 1571; buried at
Boston, 22 March 1602/3; married firstly 1585 William Gannocke of
Boston; married secondly Reginald Hall.

10b. Elizabeth Hudleston

10c. Beatrice Hudleston

10d. Emma Hudleston, buried 1585

10e. Joan Hudleston, born and died 1561

10f. John Hudleston, baptised 1561/2

10g. Millicent Hudleston, baptised 1563/4

10h. Jane Hudleston, baptised 1564

3b. Adam de Hudleston, captured at the Battle of Bannockburn, 1322; ff
1325; married Katherine, a widow in 1334 (VCH Lancs vol 6)

2b. Sir Adam de Hudleston, younger son; IPM 1322; married firstly Joan,
secondly Isabel. No issue (see Knights of Edward I).

2c. Sir Richard de Hudleston, younger son; ff 1277-1304; married Joan
(see Knights of Edward I). Issue:

3a. John de Hudleston; probably the ancestor of the Hudlestons of
Whittington, Lancs - see VCH Lancs

These are the family members I have placed, using various sources
(references available), up to the reign of Elizabeth. Considerable
additional material is available to flesh many of these thumb-nail
sketches out, and earlier generations of the family are also known.

MA-R

Gjest

Re: CP Omission? - Hodleston

Legg inn av Gjest » 22 jun 2006 22:53:49

mjcar@btinternet.com schrieb:


6a. Sir Richard Hudleston, son and heir; of Millom; a minor in 1398,
but old enough to have participated in a raid against his late father's
Millom estates, then held by his guardian, Robert, 3rd Lord Harrington;
at Agincourt, 1415; ff 24 Henry VI; married the sister of Sir William
Harrington, KG. Issue:

7a. Agnes Hudleston, married William Greene; parents of Thomas Greene
of Gressingham, Lancs (Vis. Herts); ancestors inter alia of the Docwras
of Putteridge, Herts

There is an interesting website
(http://www.prattens.co.uk/families/parker/trees.txt) which focuses on the
Parker family but contains some information about the Greenes of
Gressingham; apparently the reference for this is the "History of the
Township of Gressingham" by W.H. Chippendale, 1920.

This states that William de Grene ff 1389 of Gressingham married Agnes,
daughter of Sir Richard Hudleston of Whittington (sic). The only Sir
R- H- at this period seems to be Sir Richard of Millom, who has thus
been assigned as Agnes's father; however, there was a contemporary
Richard of Whittington (the two branches of the family having diverged
in the late 13th century) who may well be the R- H- in question -
assuming that the reference to Whittington is correct, and the
knighthood is an error. I shall see what I can find in VCH Lancs Vol
8. If this were the case, the Docwras of Putteridge, descendants of
Agnes and William Grene, would lose their purported descent from King
John (although they have another descent from Henry II).

MA-R

Gjest

Re: CP Omission? - Hodleston

Legg inn av Gjest » 23 jun 2006 22:36:50

mjcar@btinternet.com schrieb:

mjcar@btinternet.com schrieb:


6a. Sir Richard Hudleston, son and heir; of Millom; a minor in 1398,
but old enough to have participated in a raid against his late father's
Millom estates, then held by his guardian, Robert, 3rd Lord Harrington;
at Agincourt, 1415; ff 24 Henry VI; married the sister of Sir William
Harrington, KG. Issue:

7a. Agnes Hudleston, married William Greene; parents of Thomas Greene
of Gressingham, Lancs (Vis. Herts); ancestors inter alia of the Docwras
of Putteridge, Herts

There is an interesting website
(http://www.prattens.co.uk/families/parker/trees.txt) which focuses on the
Parker family but contains some information about the Greenes of
Gressingham; apparently the reference for this is the "History of the
Township of Gressingham" by W.H. Chippendale, 1920.

This states that William de Grene ff 1389 of Gressingham married Agnes,
daughter of Sir Richard Hudleston of Whittington (sic). The only Sir
R- H- at this period seems to be Sir Richard of Millom, who has thus
been assigned as Agnes's father; however, there was a contemporary
Richard of Whittington (the two branches of the family having diverged
in the late 13th century) who may well be the R- H- in question -
assuming that the reference to Whittington is correct, and the
knighthood is an error. I shall see what I can find in VCH Lancs Vol
8. If this were the case, the Docwras of Putteridge, descendants of
Agnes and William Grene, would lose their purported descent from King
John (although they have another descent from Henry II).

MA-R

I managed to get hold a copy of VCH Lancs 8 this afternoon at the
Guildhall, and it is clear from that (and other sources) that the
Whittington Hudlestons descend *not* from an earlier generation as is
often stated, but from a younger son of Sir John of Millom and his
wife, Sibyl de Cornwall. Accordingly, the apparent Plantagenet descent
is preserved. Much of the website's Greene stemma is accurate (but I
haven't been able to confirm it all, and one or two items are
demonstrably wrong).

Agnes Greene's probable father was Richard Hudleston of Whittington,
who died in 1415 - this is a much better chronological fit than Sir
Richard Hudleston of Millom (ff 1445). I will post more details
shortly, and also try to get hold of Chippendale's Histories of
Whittington and Gressingham. I don't believe a proper study of the
Whittington Hudlestons has yet been presented.

MA-R

Gjest

Re: CP Omission? - Hodleston

Legg inn av Gjest » 24 jun 2006 10:28:49

mjcar@btinternet.com schrieb:

"Leo van de Pas" wrote:
According to Burke's Landed Gentry there was a Sir John de Hodleston who was summoned to a council at Newcastle-on-Tyne, and ordered 26 September 26. Edward I, to attend the King at Carlisle (snip). Does anyone know how he is an ancestor of the later Hudlestons?


1b. John Hudleston, living 1251, younger brother of Richard de
Hudleston of Hudleston; died circa 1252 (see Trans. CWAAS NS iii 86-7),
married Joan, daughter and heir of Adam de Boyvill, of Millom. Issue:

2a. Sir John de Hudleston, son and heir; ff 1292-1311; summoned as a
baron, 1297; served in the Scottish campaigns of Edward I (see Knights
of Edward I); married Sibyl, daughter of Sir Lawrence FitzRichard de
Cornwall (illegitimate son of Richard, Earl of Cornwall, himself
younger son of King John). Issue:

Actually, Sir John de Hudleston appears to have died in 1305 or 1306;
according to VCH Lancs 8, he presented to Whittington in 1305, and his
widow Sibyl claimed dower in 1306.

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