Help for Steven

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Peter MEAZEY

Help for Steven

Legg inn av Peter MEAZEY » 24 mai 2006 14:58:02

Steven,
Herewith your 13th century text in more or less reasonable modern French
and a translation.
Hope this helps,
Peter Meazey (Dinan, Brittany)

"Et que toutes contentions, débats et demandes de terres, de tènements,
de châteaux et de toute manière de trépasse, mus ou à mouvoir, entre
nous et Alexandre des Isles, fils Angus, fils Donald, cesseront et en
quiet reposeront, entre ici et le parlement, établi à Berwick par le dit
notre seigneur le Roi à la quinzième après le Saint Michel, prochain à
venir, et durant le dit parlement.

Et que nous, envers le devant dit Alexandre des Isles, ne ferons ni
procurons être fait mal ni dommages à lui ni aux siens."


And that all contentions, debates and demands for lands, tenements and
castles and all manner of trespass, engaged or to be engaged, between us
and Alexander of the Isles, son of Angus son of Donald, shall cease and
rest in quiet, between now and the parliament established at Berwick by
the said our lord the King on the fifteenth day after the coming
Michaelmas and throughout the said parliament.

And that we, towards the fore-mentioned Alexander of the Isles, shall
not do or procure to be done any harm or damage to him or to his [people].

Banks, Steven

RE: Anglo-French document (addendum)

Legg inn av Banks, Steven » 24 mai 2006 19:44:02

Thank you Peter (and you Chris Phillips!) for your reply. What I wasn't sure of was if Alexander of Argyll was saying to Edward "I'll behave if he (Alexander of Islay) does.", or if he was saying that he will 'keep the peace' and he'll make sure Alexander of Islay does also.

I guess I was sort of on the right track.

As a side note, the document also states that Alexander of Argyll "will not harbour in any manner, nor give aid to any malefactor, who does not wish to follow the laws of the land, namely 'Roulaund le fiuz Alien' and 'Donekan le fiuz Dugald' who do not want to oby our lord the king and come into his peace."

'Roulaund le fiuz Alien', otherwise Lochlan (MacRuaidhri), son of Alan and 'Donekan le fiuz Dugald', otherwise Duncan (MacRuaidhri), son of Dubhgall ('king of the isles', d. 1268). This is, I believe, the only mention of Dubhgall's son Duncan outside of the gaelic genealogical tracts. An argument could be made for Duncan son of Dubhgall being the 'Donekan de Mackoury, gentleman of Sir John of Argyle' who petitions King Edward II for the right to take control of the Irish estate of one Nicholas de Ledewicke and marry his widow, since this 'Donekan'....

'had been in the service of our lord the king, father of our lord the king that now is, and in the service of our lord the king that now is, at all times since the commencement of the war in Scotland, his father and relations having died in the same service, all his lands, goods and houses destroyed by the enemies of Scotland and he himself has lived the whole of this year in Man in great distress, in the service of the king against the enemies aforesaid.' (CDS iii, p. 99, no. 521)

However, I think it more probable that the 'Donekan' in the petition is the son of the 'Donekan' in Alexander of Argyll's letter.

1. In the genealogies for Clann Ruaidhi found in MS 1467 and 'The Book of Lecan' it states... 'Ferchar agus Donch(adh) da mc Donch(adh) ic Dubgaill mc Ruaidri...' (Ferchar and Duncan the two sons of Duncan son of Dubhgall son of Ruaidrhi...).

2. In the Annals of Ulster, sub anno 1316, in a list of those killed fighting alongside Ruaidrhi O'Connor of Connaught, we find...'Donnchad Mac Ruaidri & cet galloclaech...' (Duncan MacRuaidhri and one hundred galloglass...)

Based on the 'Duncan son of Duncan' found in the MacRuaidrhi genealogies, the death of a 'Duncan MacRuaidhri (I)' in Ireland in 1316 and the letter to Edward II, also in 1316, stating that another 'Duncan MacRuaidhri (II) ' has lost his father in Ireland, I think that Duncan (I) is the same Duncan mentioned in Alexander of Argyll's document and that Duncan (II) is his son as shown by the genealogies.

Any and all comments are more than welcome and thanks again to Peter and Chris.

Steve
________________________________

From: Peter MEAZEY [mailto:meazey@wanadoo.fr]
Sent: Wed 5/24/2006 7:57 AM
To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Help for Steven



Steven,
Herewith your 13th century text in more or less reasonable modern French
and a translation.
Hope this helps,
Peter Meazey (Dinan, Brittany)

"Et que toutes contentions, débats et demandes de terres, de tènements,
de châteaux et de toute manière de trépasse, mus ou à mouvoir, entre
nous et Alexandre des Isles, fils Angus, fils Donald, cesseront et en
quiet reposeront, entre ici et le parlement, établi à Berwick par le dit
notre seigneur le Roi à la quinzième après le Saint Michel, prochain à
venir, et durant le dit parlement.

Et que nous, envers le devant dit Alexandre des Isles, ne ferons ni
procurons être fait mal ni dommages à lui ni aux siens."


And that all contentions, debates and demands for lands, tenements and
castles and all manner of trespass, engaged or to be engaged, between us
and Alexander of the Isles, son of Angus son of Donald, shall cease and
rest in quiet, between now and the parliament established at Berwick by
the said our lord the King on the fifteenth day after the coming
Michaelmas and throughout the said parliament.

And that we, towards the fore-mentioned Alexander of the Isles, shall
not do or procure to be done any harm or damage to him or to his [people].

Svar

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