A slightly different sequence of the Frasers of Durris [or Dores] appears in
"Genealogical Collections concerning Families in Scotland, made by Walter
Macfarlane, 1750-1751", edited by James Toshach Clark and published in two
volumes by the Scottish History Society in 1900. Interestingly, the chapter
on Fraser of Durris in vol. 2 of the Macfarlane collection is titled almost
exactly the same as the book "in private hands" mentioned below (but
excluding reference to the Frasers of Findrack). Perhaps they used the same
source....
Macfarlane says the 1st Sir Alexander Fraser of Durris married twice, with
the wives shown in the Stirnet genealogy. He does not say explicitly that
the son Sir Alexander was illegitimate but does say he was not of the 2nd
marriage (of which there was no issue).
Starting with the 2nd Sir Alexander this is the sequence that can be
constructed from Macfarlane (assuming I'm reading him right - and very few
if any dates are given):
2. Sir Alexander Fraser, 2nd of Durris, m. Helen, dau. of Straiton of
Lauriston
3. Sir Alexander Fraser, 3rd of Durris, m. Gilly [sic], dau. of David
Arbuthnot
4. William Fraser, 4th of Durris, m. Margaret, dau. of James Gordon of
Methlic anfd Haddo
5. Alexander Fraser, 5th of Durris, m. Christian, dau. of Sir Robert
Arbuthnott
6. Alexander Fraser, younger, of Durris, d. [vp] at the battle of Pinkie 8
Sept 1547 [no wife given]
7. Thomas Fraser, 6th of Durris, m. Helen, dau. of James Gordon, [3rd] of
Abergeldie and Midmar
8. [2nd son] Adam Fraser, m. a dau. of Duff of Drummuir
9. Sir Alexander Fraser, 1st Baronet, of Durris
I cannot reconcile the differences between this sequence and the one shown
below...perhaps others have thoughts on this. Macfarlane appears to have
constructed his account from original documents held by the family of Fraser
of Dores and provided to him by Sir Peter Fraser, 2nd Baronet, who d. in
1729. Unfortunately he covers only the senior male-line descent until he
arrives at the father of the 1st Baronet, so younger sons (if any) are not
mentioned nor are any daughters at all.
I believe that the two Arbuthnott spouses and possibly one or both of the
Gordon spouses can be found in the Scots Peerage with refernces to their
Fraser of Durris marriages.
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Dempster" <talksinsentences@gmail.com>
To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 2:01 PM
Subject: Fraser of Durris
Since it was suggested that I contribute to upping the amount of
non-gateway ancestor discussion here by making available what I had on
the various north-east Scottish families that I was looking at, here's
a tentative stab at the Frasers of Durris.
The genealogy of the Frasers of Durris as a family independent of the
main line of the Frasers is quite vague, despite the fact that they
produced some well known descendants in the 17th century. My own
interest has been in the identification of Janet Fraser, relict of
Cheyne of Arnage who married James Dempster of Auchterless c1550 and
who seems by circumstantial evidence to have been a member of the
Durris family.
The following tentative genealogy comes from various sources given in
detail below.
1. Sir Alexander Fraser of Cowie & Durris (d by 1411)
2. Alexander Fraser of Durris (d 1475), illegitimate son of 1 =
Margaret Gordon of "Haddo"
3. Alexander? Fraser (d by 1491) = Giles Arbuthnot of Arbuthnot
4. William? Fraser = daughter of Guthrie of Lunan
5. Thomas Fraser = sister of Wishart of Pittarrow
6. Alexander? Fraser (fl on or before 1578) = Christian Arbuthnot
of Arbuthnot
7. Thomas Fraser of Durris = Helen Gordon of Abergeldie/Midmar?
8. Adam Fraser b c 1591 = daughter of Duff of Drummuir
9. Sir Alexander Fraser of Durris 1st Bt
Sources for #2
For the name Alexander and fact that he was illegitimate son of
Alexander Fraser of Cowie & Durris: Charter of lands and confirmations
1400 and 1430: (Antiquities of the Shires of Aberdeen and Banff,
Spalding Club, Aberdeen, 1857, iii p362 and iii p365)
Date of death , STIRNET
http://www.stirnet.com/HTML/genie/briti ... rdon06.htm quoting The
Scots Peerage and Burkes.
That he married a daughter of Gordon of "Haddo", Durris entry in the
document from the Barclay-Allardyce Charter Chest dated c1700 titled
"A Genealogie of the Barons in the Mearns of Late Memory Deschending
Lineally unto the Year of God 1578", (The Miscellany of the Third
Spalding Club II, Aberdeen, 1940, p219) hereafter "Barons"
Wife's name Margaret, STIRNET
http://www.stirnet.com/HTML/genie/briti ... rdon06.htm quoting The
Scots Peerage and Burkes.
Sources for #3
Name Alexander and date of death before November 1491, Instrument of
Sasine of William Fraser, son and heir of Alexander Fraser of Durris
(Antiquities of the Shires of Aberdeen and Banff, Spalding Club,
Aberdeen, 1857, iii p367)
That he was a son of #2 and married a daughter of Arbuthnot of
Arbuthnot, Durris entry in "Barons". This entry does not give him a
first name.
Wife's name Giles, STIRNET
http://www.stirnet.com/HTML/genie/briti ... hnot01.htm
Sources for #4
Name William, Instrument of Sasine of William Fraser, son and heir of
Alexander Fraser of Durris (Antiquities of the Shires of Aberdeen and
Banff, Spalding Club, Aberdeen, 1857, iii p367)
That he was son of #3 and married a daughter of Guthrie of Lunan,
Durris entry in "Barons". This entry does not give him a first name.
Sources for #5
Name Thomas, that he was son of #4 and marriage to a sister of Wishart
of Pitarrow, Durris entry in "Barons". This entry gives his first
name.
#6
That he was a son of #5, Durris entry in Barons
Name Alexander, Arbuthnot entry on STIRNET ,
http://www.stirnet.com/HTML/genie/briti ... hnot02.htm
Wife's name Christian, same Arbuthnot entry on STIRNET
http://www.stirnet.com/HTML/genie/briti ... hnot02.htm
#7-9
All details from http://www.clanfraser.ca/natural.htm which quotes
BLG. It also notes the book
Account of the Family of Fraser, more particularly of the house of
Durris, in the county of Kincardine, and of Findrack, in the county of
Aberdeen, by William N. Fraser of Tornaveen
And then states "Since this Account is in private hands, I will only
deal here with the Frasers of Findrack." (aaaaargh)!
Problems with this genealogy.
To start with the generations look wrong between the Frasers and the
Arbuthnots.
Alexander Fraser (#2) must have been born at latest in 1400 and if he
died in 1475 then he was a good age, so lets say 1400-1475.
This means that Alexander Fraser (#3) would be possibly 1420-1491.
STIRNET's Giles Arbuthnot is said to have had sisters married in 1464
and 1487 and for Alexander to have been her second husband. So a
marriage, say 1460-1470.
We know that a William Fraser (#4) inherited from his father in 1491.
The possible dates for his father's marriage would mean that he is
likely to have been born 1465-75
This means that Thomas (#5) was probably born about 1500 and his son
Alexander say in 1520. That works perfectly well in terms of the
"Barons" document, however STIRNET assigns Christian Arbuthnot to
Robert Arbuthnot 12th of Arbuthnot whom it says d1506 and his second
wife Mariota Scrymgeour, whom it says he married in 1475. This makes
her a rather old wife for Alexander. Even if it is assumed that she
was born c1500 she is still 20 years older than her husband who is a
generation younger than her, she being the niece of Giles and he the
grandson.
Pushing the Frasers back 20 years is perfectly feasible if they are
looked at in isolation. Working 25 year generations it would give an
Alexander b c1500, Thomas 1475, William 1450, Alexander 1425 and still
have the first Alexander born in 1400. However, the marriage of
Alexander #3 to Giles Arbuthnot then becomes a problem. She is said
http://www.kittybrewster.com/a2.htm to be the daughter of David, 11th
of Arbuthnot who was born in 1423 so she was probably born little
earlier than 1440, making it difficult to have been married once and
produced a son to her second husband by 1450. The original proposal
for a marriage in the 1460s or 1470s seems more likely.
This is all very tentative as I haven't done all that much work on the
family, but it will hopefully give those looking for something other
than 17th century gateway ancestors something to chew on.
James
James Dempster
You know you've had a good night
when you wake up
and someone's outlining you in chalk.