Social descent

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Social descent

Legg inn av Gjest » 28 apr 2006 10:23:02

Tony Hoskins wrote :
Social descent. This is an excellent case of social fluidity of a
uniquely English character. Try to imagine a parallel in Germany or
France!

On the subject of social descent in France see Michel Nassiet,Noblesse et
Pauvreté - la petite noblesse en Bretagne XVe-XVIIIe siècle(Société d'Histoire et
d'Archaéologie de Bretagne, 1993) ISBN9505895-1-0.
Nassiet examines the phenomenon in over 500 pages, going into tremendous
detail on the fortunes of a dozen noble families in theRennes - Saint-Malo -
Saint-Brieuc region. Very instructive reading.
The best known example concerns the ancestors of François-René de
Chateaubriand. In his own words (from Mémoires d'Outre-Tombe) :
"La troisième branche des Chateaubriand s'appauvrit, effet inévitablede la
loi du pays : les aînés nobles emportaient les deux tiers desbiens, en vertu de
la coutume de Bretagne ; les cadets divisaient entreeux tous un seul tiers de
l'héritage paternel. La décomposition du chétif estoc de ceux-ci s'opérait
avec d'autant plus de rapidité qu'ilsse mariaient ;  et comme la même
distribution des deux tiers au tiers existait aussi pour leurs enfants, ces cadets de
cadets arrivaient promptement au partage d'une pigeon, d'un lapin, d'une
canardière et d'un chien de chasse."
With two-thirds of the estate going to the eldest son in every generation,
the younger sons of younger sons ended up with a part-share in a pigeon or a
rabbit - where their ancestors had once owned a dovecot and a warren. There are
known examples of descendants of the nobility running taverns in Brittany as
early as the XVth century.
HTH
Peter Meazey

Gjest

Re: Social descent

Legg inn av Gjest » 29 apr 2006 10:42:38

Tony Hoskins wrote :
Social descent. This is an excellent case of social fluidity of a
uniquely English character. Try to imagine a parallel in Germany or
France!

I have an ancestral couple who went from dept. Haute Saone, France to
the USA in the mid 1800s.
They were farmers, but tracing back into the 1600s,
they have an ancestor who was a 'procureur' ( I believe thats an
attorney)
whose wife was 'assisted' at her marriage by the Dames of Remiremont
(women who had 'sieze quartiers' of nobility). This couple in the 1600s
had children whose godparents included a local abbot and a member of
parliament.

The names of the fathers are listed in each ancestral marriage,
from the late 1600s, down to the emigrating couple in the 1800s.

Thats something you will probably NEVER see in English records.

I also have some coal mining ancestors from Belgium, who emigrated in
the 1800s.
Tracing the line back into the 1500s, theres an ancestral uncle who was
a local
abbot. A few of the families involved had coats of arms & they were
literate
(they were 'eschevins', a sort of clerk).

Leslie

jlucsoler

Re: Social descent

Legg inn av jlucsoler » 29 apr 2006 12:01:12

lots of case in PROVENCE too

JL


<lmahler@att.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
1146303758.907598.142860@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
Tony Hoskins wrote :
Social descent. This is an excellent case of social fluidity of a
uniquely English character. Try to imagine a parallel in Germany or
France!

I have an ancestral couple who went from dept. Haute Saone, France to
the USA in the mid 1800s.
They were farmers, but tracing back into the 1600s,
they have an ancestor who was a 'procureur' ( I believe thats an
attorney)
whose wife was 'assisted' at her marriage by the Dames of Remiremont
(women who had 'sieze quartiers' of nobility). This couple in the 1600s
had children whose godparents included a local abbot and a member of
parliament.

The names of the fathers are listed in each ancestral marriage,
from the late 1600s, down to the emigrating couple in the 1800s.

Thats something you will probably NEVER see in English records.

I also have some coal mining ancestors from Belgium, who emigrated in
the 1800s.
Tracing the line back into the 1500s, theres an ancestral uncle who was
a local
abbot. A few of the families involved had coats of arms & they were
literate
(they were 'eschevins', a sort of clerk).

Leslie

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